Melee Combat....STR....CT...

[Supplement Four]

So, I've got this new player in my game who has never played Traveller before. And, he said to me the other day, "You know, if Mike Tyson came up and punched me, he'd sure do a lot more damage to me in a single punch that I'd do to him. Why is it that Traveller doesn't give a damage bonus, like most RPGs do, to having superior STR or Skill?"


And, I replied, "Hmm...I dunno."

So, I thought about it, and he's got a point, doesn't he?

In Traveller terms, why wuld Mike Tyson do more damage? Well, he's got (A) more skill (so he'll hit more often, doing more damage), but he'll also do more damage in a single hit: (B) he's got a higher STR.

How can I adjust for this without screwing up the CT combat system?

I came up with this: The Advantageous STR DM is also applied to damage (it's applied to both the attack roll and the damage roll).

This also means that any disadvantageous DM for low STR would also have to be applied, decreasing damage.

So, Mike Tyson, STR-14, Brawling-7 takes a swing: He'll roll 2D +9 (+7 for skill, +1 for range, +1 for adv str..add in any other mods you think are needed).

For damage, he'll roll 1D +1 for damage.

While a STR-7 Skill-0 character would hit much less often and roll 1D for damage.

And, a STR-5 Skill-0 character would also hit less often and roll 1D-2 for damage.

Thoughts?

 

[Supplement Four]

So, I've got this new player in my game who has never played Traveller before. And, he said to me the other day, "You know, if Mike Tyson came up and punched me, he'd sure do a lot more damage to me in a single punch that I'd do to him. Why is it that Traveller doesn't give a damage bonus, like most RPGs do, to having superior STR or Skill?"


And, I replied, "Hmm...I dunno."

So, I thought about it, and he's got a point, doesn't he?

In Traveller terms, why wuld Mike Tyson do more damage? Well, he's got (A) more skill (so he'll hit more often, doing more damage), but he'll also do more damage in a single hit: (B) he's got a higher STR.

How can I adjust for this without screwing up the CT combat system?

I came up with this: The Advantageous STR DM is also applied to damage (it's applied to both the attack roll and the damage roll).

This also means that any disadvantageous DM for low STR would also have to be applied, decreasing damage.

So, Mike Tyson, STR-14, Brawling-7 takes a swing: He'll roll 2D +9 (+7 for skill, +1 for range, +1 for adv str..add in any other mods you think are needed).

For damage, he'll roll 1D +1 for damage.

While a STR-7 Skill-0 character would hit much less often and roll 1D for damage.

And, a STR-5 Skill-0 character would also hit less often and roll 1D-2 for damage.

Thoughts?

 

[Supplement Four]

Maybe the natural ability DM from UGM should be a part of this too.

 

[Supplement Four]

Maybe the natural ability DM from UGM should be a part of this too.

 

[mike wightman]

Why do Mike Tyson's opponents not drop after a couple of hits then?

They are equally skilled and can roll with the punch, block it or dodge it.

Traveller personal combat doesn't reflect that very well either

 

[mike wightman]

Why do Mike Tyson's opponents not drop after a couple of hits then?

They are equally skilled and can roll with the punch, block it or dodge it.

Traveller personal combat doesn't reflect that very well either

 

[mike wightman]

I think that degree of success on the to hit roll should affect the minimum damage that can be inflicted, both in melee combat and with firearms.

I used to have a combat system that took four rolls:
to hit
hit location
penetration
damage

I've reduced this to only the two:
to hit
damage

The to hit roll determines if you hit and degree of success - the latter modifies minimum damage

The damage roll now indicates where the injury is inflicted and its severity.

 

[mike wightman]

I think that degree of success on the to hit roll should affect the minimum damage that can be inflicted, both in melee combat and with firearms.

I used to have a combat system that took four rolls:
to hit
hit location
penetration
damage

I've reduced this to only the two:
to hit
damage

The to hit roll determines if you hit and degree of success - the latter modifies minimum damage

The damage roll now indicates where the injury is inflicted and its severity.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
I've reduced this to only the two:
to hit
damage

The to hit roll determines if you hit and degree of success - the latter modifies minimum damage

The damage roll now indicates where the injury is inflicted and its severity.

Tell me about it....I might want to steal something.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
I've reduced this to only the two:
to hit
damage

The to hit roll determines if you hit and degree of success - the latter modifies minimum damage

The damage roll now indicates where the injury is inflicted and its severity.

Tell me about it....I might want to steal something.

 

[mike wightman]

This is how I equate hit location and damage.

Most muscle tissue and bone that is damaged to reduce Strength is found in the arms and legs, or a grazing wound to the torso that rips muscle and cracks ribs but doesn't penetrate to the internal organs.

A blood vessel or organ hit that reduces Endurance represents a strike to a major vein, artery, or penetration of an organ.

A senses or coordination hit to reduce Dexterity is either a hit to a sensory organ - usually indicating a head hit - or minor damage to the spine, or a hit to the hands or feet.

The amount of damage can then be used by the referee or player to describe the severity of the wound.

This is recorded on a damage track for muscle/bone(Str), blood and organs(End), and senses/coordination(Dex) - although you could just mark down the physical stats in the good old fashioned way

 

[mike wightman]

This is how I equate hit location and damage.

Most muscle tissue and bone that is damaged to reduce Strength is found in the arms and legs, or a grazing wound to the torso that rips muscle and cracks ribs but doesn't penetrate to the internal organs.

A blood vessel or organ hit that reduces Endurance represents a strike to a major vein, artery, or penetration of an organ.

A senses or coordination hit to reduce Dexterity is either a hit to a sensory organ - usually indicating a head hit - or minor damage to the spine, or a hit to the hands or feet.

The amount of damage can then be used by the referee or player to describe the severity of the wound.

This is recorded on a damage track for muscle/bone(Str), blood and organs(End), and senses/coordination(Dex) - although you could just mark down the physical stats in the good old fashioned way

 

[Supplement Four]

Sig,

Do an example with dice, if you would. I'd like to see how it all works out.

Thanks.

 

[Supplement Four]

Sig,

Do an example with dice, if you would. I'd like to see how it all works out.

Thanks.

 

[Supplement Four]

Sig,

Thinking about what you wrote....

What about something like this: You roll to hit, and you get 1D of damage. If you roll 2+ over, you get another die. If you roll 4+ over, you get another die (and this continues all the way up to the max damage for the weapon).

Since most CT weapons are either 2D or 3D, You'd only have to roll 2+ or 4+ over to get max damage.

With a 3D weapon, you'll do 1D damage on a to-hit roll of 8+, 2D damage on a to-hit roll of 10+, and max 3D damage when your to-hit roll is 12+.

This includes bonuses, of course.

This would give those with higher skill (and higher stat due to UGM natural ability DM and the ADV/DISADV DMs) more damage, typically, when they hit.

Again, just thinking out loud here, but what do you think?

 

[Supplement Four]

Sig,

Thinking about what you wrote....

What about something like this: You roll to hit, and you get 1D of damage. If you roll 2+ over, you get another die. If you roll 4+ over, you get another die (and this continues all the way up to the max damage for the weapon).

Since most CT weapons are either 2D or 3D, You'd only have to roll 2+ or 4+ over to get max damage.

With a 3D weapon, you'll do 1D damage on a to-hit roll of 8+, 2D damage on a to-hit roll of 10+, and max 3D damage when your to-hit roll is 12+.

This includes bonuses, of course.

This would give those with higher skill (and higher stat due to UGM natural ability DM and the ADV/DISADV DMs) more damage, typically, when they hit.

Again, just thinking out loud here, but what do you think?

 

[mctesla]

IMTU, in addition to Brawling, we have a skill called "Martial Arts", which for each level of experience gives the character a "Martial Arts Blow", which is a choice of either +1 to the damage roll or an additional regular combat blow, in addition to the normally computed to hit change. So a character with STR 7, END 7, Martial Arts 3, gets a +3 to every unarmed melee roll (no advantageous STR bonus), 7 combat blows, and 3 Martial Arts blows (which can cause 1D+1 [or 2-7 points of damage], OR can be a standard combat blow that causes 1D).

We differentiate Brawling from Martial Arts in that Martial Arts can only be used in unarmed combat- no improvised weapons. The rationale is that a Martial Artist can control his/her body better than a street fighter, conserving their strength for strikes that hurt when they need it, but that skill comes with a price in flexability (a game concession).

The result is a trade off where the Brawlers can use improvised cudgels and knives (with the attendant damage differences, and armor modifiers), but the Martial Artist tends to hit more often, and is slightly more consistent in how hard they hit their opponent.

We looked at Martial Arts blows being able to cause more than a total of 1D+1 damage, like a +1 for every level of skill (so the example fighter above could cause 1D+3, or 4-9 points), but felt that it would be too unbalancing, as well as reducing the need for Brawling (which we liked as a skill idea as well as it being a traditional CT skill).

 

[mctesla]

IMTU, in addition to Brawling, we have a skill called "Martial Arts", which for each level of experience gives the character a "Martial Arts Blow", which is a choice of either +1 to the damage roll or an additional regular combat blow, in addition to the normally computed to hit change. So a character with STR 7, END 7, Martial Arts 3, gets a +3 to every unarmed melee roll (no advantageous STR bonus), 7 combat blows, and 3 Martial Arts blows (which can cause 1D+1 [or 2-7 points of damage], OR can be a standard combat blow that causes 1D).

We differentiate Brawling from Martial Arts in that Martial Arts can only be used in unarmed combat- no improvised weapons. The rationale is that a Martial Artist can control his/her body better than a street fighter, conserving their strength for strikes that hurt when they need it, but that skill comes with a price in flexability (a game concession).

The result is a trade off where the Brawlers can use improvised cudgels and knives (with the attendant damage differences, and armor modifiers), but the Martial Artist tends to hit more often, and is slightly more consistent in how hard they hit their opponent.

We looked at Martial Arts blows being able to cause more than a total of 1D+1 damage, like a +1 for every level of skill (so the example fighter above could cause 1D+3, or 4-9 points), but felt that it would be too unbalancing, as well as reducing the need for Brawling (which we liked as a skill idea as well as it being a traditional CT skill).

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Interesting take, loyal_citizen.

WJP/Sigg, How about a penetration roll based on strength? If you assume a certain "armor" value for a person, then the real issue is whether or not a hit "penetrates" enough to hurt. The advantage is your combat system doesn't have to change for melee. The disadvantage is you have to add a wee bit of bookkeeping (some sort of armor value for "skin").

Edit: This can also be used for the "Martial Arts" idea - you get a higher "penetration" with those trained blows. Of course, you will also get more penetration with a broken bottle....
(BTW, who thinks there will really be glass bottles in TL12+ starports? Cutting someone with a plastic bottle in a barfight is gonna be really hard - harder if its something akin to a Capri Sun pouch.)
end edit

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Interesting take, loyal_citizen.

WJP/Sigg, How about a penetration roll based on strength? If you assume a certain "armor" value for a person, then the real issue is whether or not a hit "penetrates" enough to hurt. The advantage is your combat system doesn't have to change for melee. The disadvantage is you have to add a wee bit of bookkeeping (some sort of armor value for "skin").

Edit: This can also be used for the "Martial Arts" idea - you get a higher "penetration" with those trained blows. Of course, you will also get more penetration with a broken bottle....
(BTW, who thinks there will really be glass bottles in TL12+ starports? Cutting someone with a plastic bottle in a barfight is gonna be really hard - harder if its something akin to a Capri Sun pouch.)
end edit