Mgt art

[Droptrooper.]

But the problem, fundamentally, is that we are doing it right, and it is you who has got it wrong. . .

Well actually, you're just doing it your way. Might doesn't make right.

 

[Droptrooper.]

Or what about contacting some of the classic Traveller illustrators; Liz Danforth, Blair Reynolds, Dave Deitrick, Tom Peters, Rob Prior, Steve Venters, Mike Vilardi, Brad McDevitt and Bryan Gibson to name but a few. I think most of them would be quite happy to help create a new look/feel for Traveller.

Are those people still about? Wow, a quick google shows they are and still working and illustrating. Nice.

 

[Beech]

Interestingly enough it makes me wonder, with the Rebellion links, why doesn't Mongoose pick up on some of 2000ad's artists for Traveller B&W illos or are they just too expensive?

They have: the excellent Mark Harrison (http://www.2000ad.org/markus/) is in the credits for Alsan, although he was a Traveller fan before his 2000ad tenure many moons ago when he did the Travellers comic (http://www.2000ad.org/markus/travellers/).

 

[Droptrooper.]

Actually, didn't Bradley K McDevitt do the updated character art from the updated Traveller Core Rulebook? There's someone that knows what Traveller looks like.

Are these commissioned originals or clipart from PostMortem Studios?

 

[Border Reiver]

They have: the excellent Mark Harrison (http://www.2000ad.org/markus/) is in the credits for Alsan, although he was a Traveller fan before his 2000ad tenure many moons ago when he did the Travellers comic (http://www.2000ad.org/markus/travellers/).

Back in the day, when White Dwarf was a magazine worth reading.

 

[MongooseFordy]

They have: the excellent Mark Harrison (http://www.2000ad.org/markus/) is in the credits for Alsan,

Mark Harrison actually did the concept designs for the Aslan, and is responsible for their 'new' look, some of which appear in the book.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Well actually, you're just doing it your way. Might doesn't make right.

Well, that is the point, really.

What S4 is effectively asking for is a copy of Traveller written specifically for him.

We can't do that. We can't do that for anyone, unfortunately. What we try to do instead is produce a set of rules that has the widest appeal, while still keeping it as something we ourselves enjoy. We have often noted in the past that if we like something, there is a good chance that others will like it as well!

There was another chap on these forums talking about how he looks for sets of rules where he is happy to change _nothing_. He is _so_ lucky to find those sets of rules, because they are, again, effectively being written just for him. But ask someone in another group what they think of the same game, and you'll get a run of answers, from 'can't stand that game' to 'we play it, but have introduced the character creation rules from XXX'.

It is the nature of the beast.

 

[PathfinderAP]

No. It's because of the lack of realism. Traveller always nods its head toward hard science and believable handwaving.

The pic of the Ninja Vargr is from another universe. He's more at home in Attack of the Clones, with its bug creatures and super hero Jedi rather than the more Traveller-like Aliens, with its hard core Colonial Marines that smack of realism.

Realism?, dude you are talking about a setting that has canon has Dog and Cat people, that seems more "Star Wars" than "Aliens" by your standards
Yet that is "Traveller",

 

[PathfinderAP]

Unbelievable thread this.
We all imagine this stuff differently and play it differently, let it go.

Very true,

 

[rancke]

Realism?, dude you are talking about a setting that has canon has Dog and Cat people, that seems more "Star Wars" than "Aliens" by your standards.

Answered above. Uplifted animals is Traveller. Parallel evolution leading to alien lion-men is Space Opera.


Hans

 

[mbrinkhues]

Well, that is the point, really.

<cut>
There was another chap on these forums talking about how he looks for sets of rules where he is happy to change _nothing_. He is _so_ lucky to find those sets of rules, because they are, again, effectively being written just for him. But ask someone in another group what they think of the same game, and you'll get a run of answers, from 'can't stand that game' to 'we play it, but have introduced the character creation rules from XXX'.

It is the nature of the beast.

Since I am that person I'd like to correct/clarify:

I was asking for a set of rules that works "as written" not one that I am perfectly happy with. Big difference!

Example:

The Twilight2000 V2.2 rules engine works "as written" when playing anything between late victorian and current "Propaganda Tommy" Clancy style stuff. Never used/needed a house rule. Otoh the character generation can't produce a German! It's assumption of 4year terms makes it simply impossible to build the typical conscript as well as the short term (2year) NCO. Or the typical journeyman with his 2.5-3 year training. And so on. But that's a minor problem and quite acceptabel so I never changed that.


I am willing to live with minor stuff like that IF the rest of the system works out of the box. To me a system should be like a computer from DELL/HP/IBM: "Uncrate, plug in, works". It's okay if it delivers a bit less performance than a hand-tuned, self-build system and costs a bit more.


For playing Traveller like I understand it(1) the current MURPS (Mongoose Universal Roleplaying System) can't do that. To many parts where the system does not fit the established universe due to lack of granularity, combat system design etc.


(1) Traveller for me is a setting! ONLY a setting!

 

[PathfinderAP]

Back in the day, when White Dwarf was a magazine worth reading.

Again so true,

 

[PathfinderAP]

Obviously, at least some people feel as I do about this.

But are they the majority of people or the minority?

 

[PathfinderAP]

but have introduced the character creation rules from XXX'.

What theres a Triple X game out there and nobody told me?
does Vin Diesel know? cuz he's a roleplaya you know

 

[MongooseMatt]

(1) Traveller for me is a setting! ONLY a setting!

Controversial

 

[mbrinkhues]

Controversial

That's why I used the word me. As Frederic the Great said "Each may find happyness by his own believes".

So and now excuse me, I have to stir the pitch, my catholic priest has said we'll have to help the protestants next town to find happyness

 

[mbrinkhues]

What theres a Triple X game out there and nobody told me?
does Vin Diesel know? cuz he's a roleplaya you know

Na, the XXX game has nothing to do with Vin Diesel. He's promoting the xXx game.

The XXX game can't be promoted here, there may be minors around

 

[Supplement Four]

In my experience Mongoose will listen to fans but they cannot allow fans to dictate their business practice.

As much as I disagree and dislike the way Mongoose is going with their version of Traveller, I have to be completely fair. This statement above is completely true.

Mongoose is open and really treat their fans well. I agree 100% with that. And, I like them for it.

I think that's one of the reasons I keep pulling for them to make their version of Traveller better than it is.

I respect Matt for what he does, showing up on these boards and participating. He's at least hearing me, even though he might not agree. I'm sure I'm not his favorite customer, and I'd bet that he wishes that I'd just "go away". And, if Mongoose had never gotten the rights to Traveller (or gone a more traditional route with the game), I bet Matt would love me. I'd be pegged as a Mongoose fanboy because I love their Conan game so much.

The basic point of friction is this: I'm in love with what Traveller is and has been for the last 30+ years. Matt and his team are re-envisioning the game, making it shades of what it was and something new.

This is always a tricky thing to do. Sometimes, you're successful. Sometimes, you're not.

When I first heard that Starbuck was going to be a chick, it really gave me a bad feeling about the new Battlestar. But, once I saw her in action, it wasn't long before I bought into the change...and loved it.

Likewise, when I first saw that the Vargr were going to be portrayed more as fantasy-esque Ninja fighting Gnolls in Space (from Matt's postings on this board), I had a bad feeling in my gut. Then, after seeing the finalized pic, plus the style of the Aslan and the Darrians, all it did was confirm my growing dislike for the fundamental changes that Mongoose is making to the game.

It's a slippery slope changing something that was done so well in the past.

What S4 is effectively asking for is a copy of Traveller written specifically for him.

No sir. I'm asking that you stop changing the Traveller universe on a fundamental level. Stop turning it into Star Wars. Stop destroying Traveller's depth.

Update the game? Sure. Do that.

But, respect what has gone on before. Don't just change things, willy-nilly, throughing the game's 30 year history on the floor in one swoop.

 

[Supplement Four]

Looking at some deckplans...the deckplans of the Venture Class Frontier Courier is pretty doggone nice.

They're hard to see in this pic: http://valisystem.org/tratra/img/DBGAMEDESIGN/Venture_mihiraki.jpg

But, they're done very nice when viewed close up. They are included in this book: http://valisystem.org/tratra/img/DBGAMEDESIGN/Venture_Class_Frontier_Courier.jpg

How about it, Matt? How about upgrading to at least this detail on your maps?

 

[scrabble]

I think that's one of the reasons I keep pulling for them to make their version of Traveller better than it is.

And yet you seem to fail to realize that "better than it is" is based only your opinion. Others can look at the same source material that you are referencing and come up with their own version of "better than it is" that is not the same as your "vision" of what Traveller should be.

The basic point of friction is this: I'm in love with what Traveller is and has been for the last 30+ years. Matt and his team are re-envisioning the game, making it shades of what it was and something new.

Then why not stick to using the 30+ year old version of Traveller that you so love? If the changes are too much for you, why do you insist on trying to force them to change it back for you? You already have something that you "love" after all.

You are the source of the "friction", not Mongoose. Especially when it is clear that you "love" the game, which is hardly any basis for rational discussion. You are clearly too emotionally invested (in a roleplaying game, of all things) to be any good judge of what is "right" or "wrong" for it.

This is always a tricky thing to do. Sometimes, you're successful. Sometimes, you're not.

Success is judged by sales, not purism. Mongoose Traveller has sold very well. Though I am sure you will now claim that this means nothing because Classic Traveller has sold more over 30 years, but that is not relevant in the slightest to the discussion (how much Classic Traveller sold in the first two years of its release would be more relevant, though not by much). The fact is that currently, in the present market, Mongoose Traveller is a great commercial success.

Likewise, when I first saw that the Vargr were going to be portrayed more as fantasy-esque Ninja fighting Gnolls in Space (from Matt's postings on this board), I had a bad feeling in my gut. Then, after seeing the finalized pic, plus the style of the Aslan and the Darrians, all it did was confirm my growing dislike for the fundamental changes that Mongoose is making to the game.

Again, we accept that you do not like the "changes" that Mongoose are making. Again, more people do like the changes. Again, I ask you why you think you have any more authority to dictate to Mongoose what Traveller should be than anybody else.

No sir. I'm asking that you stop changing the Traveller universe on a fundamental level. Stop turning it into Star Wars. Stop destroying Traveller's depth.

Update the game? Sure. Do that.

But, respect what has gone on before. Don't just change things, willy-nilly, throughing the game's 30 year history on the floor in one swoop.

Really, all I can say to you is "get over it". You will not, of course. You will continue to proclaim that you are right and that Mongoose is wrong.

Colin is right. It is not just tiresome though, it is pathetic.