And you're dragging the thread way further off topic.
The CT discussion needs to go elsewhere.
Allen needs to learn to use the report post function, rather than drag threads off topic into issues that belong in Website Issues or Random Static.
Mongoose High Guard
- Thread starter Border Reiver
- Start date
And you're dragging the thread way further off topic.
The CT discussion needs to go elsewhere.
Allen needs to learn to use the report post function, rather than drag threads off topic into issues that belong in Website Issues or Random Static.
Without being interupted by people wanting to talk about MgT. :rofl:
Sorry,
I couldn't resist.
Oh very well, back on the topic of MgT:High Guard ...
I recently found myself forced to take a close look at the 30 ton Ship's Boat (and Small Craft in general). Am I the only one spending a lot of time saying 'huh?' at bits and pieces of the Starship creation rules?
Looking at the Ship's Boat and Cutter in the MgT:Core Book, they both claim to use MD-A and PP-A, which actually agrees fairly well with the performance of the 100 ton and 200 ton ships using the same drive/power plant.
Then you check out the deckplan (yes, the corrected one) and compare it to the pictures of those craft - the two look nothing alike. The pictures depict long slender craft either roughly 4.5 or 6 meters in diameter (1.5 or 2 decks tall). The Plans show short fat craft that are 6 to 7.5 meters in diameter (2 to 2.5 decks tall) with no indication that there are two full decks to these craft. Not wanting to pile on the 'let's beat up the deckplans' band wagon, I say "Huh, that's odd" and move on.
Since the MgT:Core Book sort of glosses over small craft design, one is really forced to go to MgT:High Guard to get a handle on the stats for these Small Craft. So they all have a 6 ton 'cockpit' and a 1 ton 'airlock'. Ok so small craft have a 7 ton 'standard bridge' compared to the 10 ton bridge on a 100 ton scout. I can live with that. It generally makes sense. Since these small craft are little more than a 'bridge', 'engineering' and a 'cargo hold', it seems reasonable to look at the MD and PP next. Since the MgT:Core Book defined the 30 ton, 40 ton and 50 ton small craft as all having MD-A and PP-A, we have a reasonable idea what to expect from the MgT:HG small craft rules ... but our expectations would be wrong. So I read that the 30 ton Ship's Boat actually has MD-sJ and PP-sJ, which give it the same performance as the MgT:Core MD-A and PP-A (6G in both cases). So I say "OK, a new drive table. I can live with that." Until I look close at the MD/PP-sJ and realize that they are a lot larger than the MD/PP-A and a lot more expensive.
Another "Huh, that's REALLY odd." I mean why would you use a larger and more expensive small craft drive when a smaller and cheaper starship MD/PP-A is available. Obviously, there can be no logical reason why a MD/PP-A would not fit. A 6 ton MD/PP-A should fit in an 8.1 ton engineering hole left by removing the MD/PP sJ.
Note that all of my complaints center around INTERNAL CONSISTANCY within and between the MgT:Core Book and MgT:High Guard. No mention of Classic Traveller (or any other version.)
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I know how to use the report post function, thank you. I only report posts when they are being insulting or violations of the board rules. I merely stated my opinion on the topic drift and then responded once -now twice- and will not do so again after this.
But since you want me to use the report function...
Allen
Fuel Storage in MgT:HG
Am I missing something or does this fly in the face of basic physics? Few things are less dense than Hydrogen, so hydrogen stored in any compound (including simple H2O water) should take up LESS volume than LH2, not more.
[It will be heavier than LH2, but that doesn't matter for Grav Drives, just like heavy Armor doesn't affect acceleration.]
MgT High Guard said:
Am I missing something or does this fly in the face of basic physics? Few things are less dense than Hydrogen, so hydrogen stored in any compound (including simple H2O water) should take up LESS volume than LH2, not more.
[It will be heavier than LH2, but that doesn't matter for Grav Drives, just like heavy Armor doesn't affect acceleration.]
MgT:High Guard Components
Some credit where due, the list of additional components looks useful:
Fuel, Drop Tank Mount
Fuel, Drop Tank
Metal Hydride Storage
Bridge, Command
Bridge, Compact
Bridge, Detachable
Bridge, Hardened
Bridge, Holographic
Sensors, Survey
Sensors, Counter–Measure
Sensors, Military
Aerofins
Breaching Tube
Docking Clamp
Grappling Arm
Solar Panels
Armoury
Briefing room
Hangar
Laboratory
Library
Vault
In my opinion, some of the items, like the Docking Clamp, have been needed forever. Ever Since the Type R appeared in CT, everyone has known that a small craft can be attached to the outside of a ship. Now we have simple rules for how to do it [FF&S probably had rules for it, but I doubt that it was simple].
Even more usefull than the list itself, the additional components show that MgT ships can have additional components, allowing more components to be ported over from various sources and creating a basic framework to add them to.
Some credit where due, the list of additional components looks useful:
Fuel, Drop Tank Mount
Fuel, Drop Tank
Metal Hydride Storage
Bridge, Command
Bridge, Compact
Bridge, Detachable
Bridge, Hardened
Bridge, Holographic
Sensors, Survey
Sensors, Counter–Measure
Sensors, Military
Aerofins
Breaching Tube
Docking Clamp
Grappling Arm
Solar Panels
Armoury
Briefing room
Hangar
Laboratory
Library
Vault
In my opinion, some of the items, like the Docking Clamp, have been needed forever. Ever Since the Type R appeared in CT, everyone has known that a small craft can be attached to the outside of a ship. Now we have simple rules for how to do it [FF&S probably had rules for it, but I doubt that it was simple].
Even more usefull than the list itself, the additional components show that MgT ships can have additional components, allowing more components to be ported over from various sources and creating a basic framework to add them to.
MgT: HG Barbettes and Weapon Upgrades
I think that Barbettes have been shortchanged in yet another version of Traveller. MgT allows me to mount a turret or a 50 ton bay on a 60 ton craft and then tells me that a Barbette is between the two in size, but it fails to follow the logic to it's conclusion and create barbette versions of the Turret weapons.
On the other hand, the ability to upgrade weapons at later TLs is very clever and seems simple to use. Upgrades include:
* Accurate
* Easy to Repair
* High Yield
* Long Range
* Resilient
* Variable
* Very High Yield
I think that Barbettes have been shortchanged in yet another version of Traveller. MgT allows me to mount a turret or a 50 ton bay on a 60 ton craft and then tells me that a Barbette is between the two in size, but it fails to follow the logic to it's conclusion and create barbette versions of the Turret weapons.
On the other hand, the ability to upgrade weapons at later TLs is very clever and seems simple to use. Upgrades include:
* Accurate
* Easy to Repair
* High Yield
* Long Range
* Resilient
* Variable
* Very High Yield
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MgT: High Guard - Primitive Craft
I liked the inclusion of rules for Reaction Drives and Chemical Power Plants. I admit to a fascination with the TL 6-8 Pre-Grav Spacecraft. I look forward to taking these rules for a test drive when time permits. The rules look rather easy to use, I just wonder how well they actually work [MegaTraveller had rules for this that resulted in craft with FTL exhausts when compared to real rocket performance.]
I liked the inclusion of rules for Reaction Drives and Chemical Power Plants. I admit to a fascination with the TL 6-8 Pre-Grav Spacecraft. I look forward to taking these rules for a test drive when time permits. The rules look rather easy to use, I just wonder how well they actually work [MegaTraveller had rules for this that resulted in craft with FTL exhausts when compared to real rocket performance.]
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
The docking clamp is more what the Lab Ship has. The Type R uses (or used) an External Grapple, as the subcraft volume is subtracted when the subcraft is absent. As for it being in FF&S, yes. Aside from streamlining options altering the percentages and prices (and the surface area consideration that was common to all FF&S hull fittings), no, it was pretty much that simple. T4 included them as well.
Aside from MGT portraying the External Grapple as somewhat ad hoc (probably due to the lack of truly custom hull sizes), I'm happy to see it.
Icosahedron
SOC-14 1K
Hydrogen's low density is due to its low mass rather than it taking up a large volume, but you are correct in that Hydrides can store more Hydrogen per unit volume than LH2. However, the practicalities of, for example, diffusing the Hydrogen into the matrix might lead to a mechanical solution that is somewhat less 'ideal' than pure physics would suggest.
In game terms, Hydride storage confers an advantage and that needs to be balanced by a disadvantage - storage density is perhaps as good as any.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Yep, you will need some sort of extraction machinery to get the hydrogen from the matrix in operation, so the rule is pretty balanced.
And I know that the pumping and refridgeration machinery in the regular tanks is glossed over too, but this rule just feels right
And I know that the pumping and refridgeration machinery in the regular tanks is glossed over too, but this rule just feels right
ThunderChilde
SOC-13
Mmm, usually all you need to liberate the Hyd, is temperature to cause a phase change, or a lower pressure, or both. It can be used in service cycles nearly forever too. More importantly , this is a TL7-8 technology, understood in TL6 too or earlier, it's being used now. You can't tell me that in the far future, they will not have figured out a much better way to do this.
What exactly is unrefined fuel anyway? It can be gotten from lakes and ocens, icy deposits of many kinds, most gas giants, and not a few planetary atmos. (methane, etc.). All of these contain HYD, some of them quite a bit HYD. So, what exactly can the wonderful millspec and scout spec PP, MD, JD run on? Water is so much safer to lug around, and a much denser storage medium than LHYD. Good old deisel fuel would be a tremendous fuel source for that matter.
What exactly is unrefined fuel anyway? It can be gotten from lakes and ocens, icy deposits of many kinds, most gas giants, and not a few planetary atmos. (methane, etc.). All of these contain HYD, some of them quite a bit HYD. So, what exactly can the wonderful millspec and scout spec PP, MD, JD run on? Water is so much safer to lug around, and a much denser storage medium than LHYD. Good old deisel fuel would be a tremendous fuel source for that matter.
Peter Schutze
SOC-12
Armaments pg61
"Anti–personnel weapons like FGMPs or rocket launchers are too short–ranged and low–powered to be of use against spacecraft."
Iam I correct in assuming that they are talking here exclusively about ship mounted small-arms not being useful in the space combat role ?
think starwars with "stormtroopers chasing Han Solo into the Millenium Falcon" type situation:-
I've always thought that an Imperial Marine firing his FGMP and hitting the airlock doors of the player's type-s would ruin their whole day
"Anti–personnel weapons like FGMPs or rocket launchers are too short–ranged and low–powered to be of use against spacecraft."
Iam I correct in assuming that they are talking here exclusively about ship mounted small-arms not being useful in the space combat role ?
think starwars with "stormtroopers chasing Han Solo into the Millenium Falcon" type situation:-
I've always thought that an Imperial Marine firing his FGMP and hitting the airlock doors of the player's type-s would ruin their whole day
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Yep, useless at ship combat ranges. There should be some rules somewhere in MgT about shooting at ships with support weapons though
spinwardpirate
SOC-13
12 pages... I'm guessing it was discussed herein, but being pressed for time, anyone have the information on where to send my screwed up copy to get a new edition? And does anyone know if the new edition is error free?
Yep, useless at ship combat ranges. There should be some rules somewhere in MgT about shooting at ships with support weapons though
As I recall, it says that support weapons, even FGMPs, won't do anything.
Uh, yeah, I disagree--they'll destroy airlocks, strip sensors and puncture portholes (presuming someone has such on a starship). In other words, they won't destroy it, but they will make anything under about 5000 tons essentially unflyable.
Those rules are in Mercenary. Add the dice of all the weapons firing (and hitting) at the ship, ignoring projectile smallarms like the assault rifle (so just support weapons and lasers), divide by 50, and then roll that many dice damage.
By that measure a beam laser is ten times more powerful than a laser rifle, and 3 times an FGMP.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Knew I'd seen em somewhere - just couldn't be bothered to look
Makes sense since in CT it took quite a lot of damage from a projectile weapon (1000 points) or less from an energy weapon or explosive (100 points) to make a man-sized hole.
Note the man-sized hole bit, things like laser rifles and FGMPs are going to penetrate the hull, but they have to do so a few times to make a major dent.
Another point to MgT IMHO
Makes sense since in CT it took quite a lot of damage from a projectile weapon (1000 points) or less from an energy weapon or explosive (100 points) to make a man-sized hole.
Note the man-sized hole bit, things like laser rifles and FGMPs are going to penetrate the hull, but they have to do so a few times to make a major dent.
Another point to MgT IMHO
Icosahedron
SOC-14 1K
M-Drives are Fusion engines. I reckon it's more likely that the fuel stored will be deuterium rather than Hydrogen.
There was another thread about the nature of fuel last year.
