I believe he is referring to the Graytch. (See p.37 of T4 Aliens Archive, and p.182 of T4 Aliens Vol. 1 on the CDROM).
They actually look more like a "Drider" from D&D.
New thought about the course of Traveller
- Thread starter Garyius2003
- Start date
I believe he is referring to the Graytch. (See p.37 of T4 Aliens Archive, and p.182 of T4 Aliens Vol. 1 on the CDROM).
They actually look more like a "Drider" from D&D.
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
Ah, right. I'd blocked them out along with most of the rest.
The Clotho are about the only one of the GT add-ins I like, just not as the Addaxur. The Addaxur have been re-done under Mongoose, and now look like gigantic tardigrades.
Lizard folk are represented by the Hkhar in Julian space and by the Ithklur in Hiver space (The Bwaps are amphibians). I prefer the Hkhar to be closer to the art seen in their Challenge article, or the cigar smoking "dragon" from the Well of Souls books. I could live with them being more like Utah Raptors, too. Picture the raptors from the Jurassic Park movies with armor and guns. The GT art does not suggest an independently spacefaring race.
The MgT description of the Addaxur is actually closer to what I had imagined them to be like based on CT: Alien Module 4 (which did not have a picture, only a text description). And that is what I go with.
However, I agree: I DO like the Clotho in GT: Alien Races 1. (I just reinterpret them as another race).
ISTR reading that several of the GTAR races were originally for Spacemaster. And several were rejects from other games.
It makes me wonder if, really, it should have been a G:Space supplement series rather than GT.
Oh gosh, I think it was in the T4 Alien Races book. It was like a centaur-spider person thingy. It's in the middle glossy section somewhere...I don't have the book in front of me just at this moment. Anyway, it really looked like someone was reaching there.
There's a couple others that made me wince, but I can't recall all of them just now.
The one race I do like is he Virushi. Rhino-like aliens with the disposition of a psychiatric nurse.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
Hmm, when I read about the Virushi the first time, Heinlein's The Star Beast popped into my head. I still sort of view them in that light. I do not have them eating metal though.
Interesting. I've not read "The Star Beast". I'll have to have a look.
Not to sound too self promotional, but I like my brand of Vargr, as everyone I believe likes their in house brand of the aliens. Having said that, do the Vargr need updating?
The T20 cover (now Sci-Fi 20) cover looks okay to me. I do admit that the Vargr in the pic looks more like a dog than an uplifted canine with the ability of expression and independent thought. Ergo the reason I always reference the really cool timber-wolf looking type of Vargr from Alien Module 3, dressed in the red and grey uniform (I'm not a fan of the Vargr on the right in the blue cape).
I think Vargr with tongues wagging and panting like classic canines might be a turn off. I think an uplifted canine might be inclined to keep his mouth cool, and have a reserved countenance while doing whatever it is he does. And I think that may be the key factor in what works for Vargr. Something like this;
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120820031833/trekcreative/images/3/3a/Sj1b-vargr.gif
If you picture them as dogs with arms who dress up and shoot guns, then I think you have every reason to scoff, laugh, and just plain dismiss the notion of an uplifted canine. If you think of them as having the ancestry of canine / lupine stock, the same way we have common ancestry with other primates, but are a species unto ourselves, then I think the Vargr become what they were intended to be.
When I think of the classic Vargr alien, I tend to picture a timber-wolf like person. I don't picture anything else; no pugs, no poodles, no bulldogs, no rottweilers, no dachshunds, no beagles, no chihuahuas, etc. Maybe something Germanshepardish in terms of color scheme, maybe something Labrador in terms of disposition or even again fur/hair color, but I think it's clear that the classic lupine stock is probably the best choice to base this particular alien.
Just me.
Not to sound too self promotional, but I like my brand of Vargr, as everyone I believe likes their in house brand of the aliens. Having said that, do the Vargr need updating?
The T20 cover (now Sci-Fi 20) cover looks okay to me. I do admit that the Vargr in the pic looks more like a dog than an uplifted canine with the ability of expression and independent thought. Ergo the reason I always reference the really cool timber-wolf looking type of Vargr from Alien Module 3, dressed in the red and grey uniform (I'm not a fan of the Vargr on the right in the blue cape).
I think Vargr with tongues wagging and panting like classic canines might be a turn off. I think an uplifted canine might be inclined to keep his mouth cool, and have a reserved countenance while doing whatever it is he does. And I think that may be the key factor in what works for Vargr. Something like this;
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120820031833/trekcreative/images/3/3a/Sj1b-vargr.gif
If you picture them as dogs with arms who dress up and shoot guns, then I think you have every reason to scoff, laugh, and just plain dismiss the notion of an uplifted canine. If you think of them as having the ancestry of canine / lupine stock, the same way we have common ancestry with other primates, but are a species unto ourselves, then I think the Vargr become what they were intended to be.
When I think of the classic Vargr alien, I tend to picture a timber-wolf like person. I don't picture anything else; no pugs, no poodles, no bulldogs, no rottweilers, no dachshunds, no beagles, no chihuahuas, etc. Maybe something Germanshepardish in terms of color scheme, maybe something Labrador in terms of disposition or even again fur/hair color, but I think it's clear that the classic lupine stock is probably the best choice to base this particular alien.
Just me.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I usually describe them to my players as crinos form werewolves in combat armour - they tend to drop the doggie jokes rather quickly after that.
Vargr are uplifted wolves, not uplifted yorkshire terriers.
Vargr are uplifted wolves, not uplifted yorkshire terriers.
Vladika
SOC-14 1K
Is EXACTLY what the Vargr are. (They have just been permanently morphed.)
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
And yet they have had 300,000 years to continue evolving. While you won't find the Earth breeds as such, the Domestication Effect seen in Terran canines and natural localization as they spread across Lair could combine to produce numerous sub-species. Past materials have informed us of three, IIRC. The Irilitok show the Domestication Effect to some extent, while the Urzaeng increased in size and the Roth Thoken likely emerged from a pygmy group. Hair, muzzle, and ear lengths probably vary more than the art has conveyed.
Xerxeskingofking
SOC-13
I rather like the artwork on the MgT cover of the Spinward Marches book, with what i think is in my opinion one the better pictures of both a varge and a Aslan female (who always seem to get rather glossed over in the art department)
edit: i've been wondering, is that man stood behind the drone just a normal human, or is he a minor race i don't recognise?
edit 2:
sort of like this?
not pushing mongoose products, just point to some of the artwork.
edit: i've been wondering, is that man stood behind the drone just a normal human, or is he a minor race i don't recognise?
edit 2:
sort of like this?
not pushing mongoose products, just point to some of the artwork.
Last edited:
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
That pic is OK, but, on the whole, I really don't like Mongoose art for Traveller. Like the art for TNE (which I couldn't stand, either), it's too swashbuckling. Looks more space opera than hard science.
Yes, I know Traveller is a mix of space opera and hard science, but I've always liked the more realistic looking art for Traveller. More Aliens and less Star Wars.
THIS is a Vargr.
NOT THIS.
Yes, I know Traveller is a mix of space opera and hard science, but I've always liked the more realistic looking art for Traveller. More Aliens and less Star Wars.
THIS is a Vargr.
NOT THIS.
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
Except the Aslan has too many fingers.
Xerxeskingofking
SOC-13
*looks agian*
aw, crap.........
aw, crap.........
Xerxeskingofking
SOC-13
i'm guessing what happened is they paid for the picture before they noticed the error, it was too expensive to get it altered?
One of my major beefs with games is the poor artwork. Back in the 70s and 80s I always wondered why there were such p__s-poor drawings and paintings on the covers of a lot of games that otherwise might have attracted a bigger following.
Steve Jackson seems to be one of the few who picked up on the fact that you needed not only a solid product that your customer base will like, but you need to make it sexy as well.
When I was coming of age in the 70s and 80s I noted the likes of Chris Foss and Peter Elson on a number of sci-fi book covers, and given that the Stewart Cowley books are essentially a collection of their art and other artists in the sci-fi genre, I am still continually perplexed as to how and why the gaming genre cannot consistently ascertain quality artists for their products.
The Vargr Mongoose cover is touching a nerve here. There's a lot of work that went into that Vargr on Vargr scene, but to me it's a little too avante garde, too impressionistic, to be a good conventional rendering of what I think Vargr ought to be to the audience.
Then again, I'm a movie guy. The end product in film is the visual itself, and not the spinoff game that is derived from the story on screen. Even so, FASA knew the importance of making something look like it was part of Trek with their ST RPG. SJ Games, Pod9, and a lot of other game and media companies know the value. But it seems like Traveller is only batting 500 when it comes to the art department.
Sometimes it nails stuff with quality art. Other times it just feels like the powers that be hired whoever was cheap and available to crank out near stick figure quality visuals.
That is a REAL pet peeve of mine with not just Traveller, but things that I would like to turn into flim, but are hampered by the fact that the owner of the property has zero taste when it comes to art, and therefore hires his friend across town who paints as a hobby, but has sold zero pieces professionally outside of the odd gaming contract because his work STINKS. :frankie:
There. I said it. Man that felt good. 30 years of buildup.
Part of the reason I got into sim-war gaming was to prepare myself for a military career. When that fell through I decided I might try the arts, and tap my gaming experiences for story material. But it's damn hard to get inspired when you're staring at something a child did in his second grade art class;
Examples of bad sci-fi art, gaming and non;
http://maverick.brainiac.com/cmm/tfg09.jpg
http://www.rpgnow.com/images/3528/126542-thumb140.jpg
http://thumbs2.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mwDvxcTLcEsk1LqXdGnc13A.jpg
http://www.2d6.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/warp.jpg
Examples of GOOD sci-fi art;
http://www.chrisfossart.com/
http://www.peterelson.co.uk/
http://s.ecrater.com/stores/138763/4b157d8f5e713_138763n.jpg
http://thumbs1.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mYR5a4dyQJpiiSg0r1fVvIQ.jpg (my personal fav)
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_BdctRmqDgOo/TP-ZDJkdvGI/AAAAAAAAAa0/r7wZQECcs6M/s1600/80190.jpg (another absolute personal fav)
And I think this is what really and truly pisses me off most. For all of the sci-fi NOVELs that were published in the 70s and 80s, I can't think of a fraction of them that stuck around, yet were adorned with sexy jacket cover art. That verse some of the games which have been around for years, but still cling to the theory of "my buddy can paint a little....I'll throw him some cash to get the job done" theory.
Hell, I'm still trying to save up for a digital camera, but I'm passionate about my passtimes, dammit.
Steve Jackson seems to be one of the few who picked up on the fact that you needed not only a solid product that your customer base will like, but you need to make it sexy as well.
When I was coming of age in the 70s and 80s I noted the likes of Chris Foss and Peter Elson on a number of sci-fi book covers, and given that the Stewart Cowley books are essentially a collection of their art and other artists in the sci-fi genre, I am still continually perplexed as to how and why the gaming genre cannot consistently ascertain quality artists for their products.
The Vargr Mongoose cover is touching a nerve here. There's a lot of work that went into that Vargr on Vargr scene, but to me it's a little too avante garde, too impressionistic, to be a good conventional rendering of what I think Vargr ought to be to the audience.
Then again, I'm a movie guy. The end product in film is the visual itself, and not the spinoff game that is derived from the story on screen. Even so, FASA knew the importance of making something look like it was part of Trek with their ST RPG. SJ Games, Pod9, and a lot of other game and media companies know the value. But it seems like Traveller is only batting 500 when it comes to the art department.
Sometimes it nails stuff with quality art. Other times it just feels like the powers that be hired whoever was cheap and available to crank out near stick figure quality visuals.
That is a REAL pet peeve of mine with not just Traveller, but things that I would like to turn into flim, but are hampered by the fact that the owner of the property has zero taste when it comes to art, and therefore hires his friend across town who paints as a hobby, but has sold zero pieces professionally outside of the odd gaming contract because his work STINKS. :frankie:
There. I said it. Man that felt good. 30 years of buildup.
Part of the reason I got into sim-war gaming was to prepare myself for a military career. When that fell through I decided I might try the arts, and tap my gaming experiences for story material. But it's damn hard to get inspired when you're staring at something a child did in his second grade art class;
Examples of bad sci-fi art, gaming and non;
http://maverick.brainiac.com/cmm/tfg09.jpg
http://www.rpgnow.com/images/3528/126542-thumb140.jpg
http://thumbs2.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mwDvxcTLcEsk1LqXdGnc13A.jpg
http://www.2d6.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/warp.jpg
Examples of GOOD sci-fi art;
http://www.chrisfossart.com/
http://www.peterelson.co.uk/
http://s.ecrater.com/stores/138763/4b157d8f5e713_138763n.jpg
http://thumbs1.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mYR5a4dyQJpiiSg0r1fVvIQ.jpg (my personal fav)
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_BdctRmqDgOo/TP-ZDJkdvGI/AAAAAAAAAa0/r7wZQECcs6M/s1600/80190.jpg (another absolute personal fav)
And I think this is what really and truly pisses me off most. For all of the sci-fi NOVELs that were published in the 70s and 80s, I can't think of a fraction of them that stuck around, yet were adorned with sexy jacket cover art. That verse some of the games which have been around for years, but still cling to the theory of "my buddy can paint a little....I'll throw him some cash to get the job done" theory.
Hell, I'm still trying to save up for a digital camera, but I'm passionate about my passtimes, dammit.
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