Patrol Boats?

[Mako]

Not sure where my CT Traders and Gunboats book is, and haven't looked at it in quite some time, so can't recall if it includes stats for small patrol boats, but I suspect so, and imagine gunboats are just a different name for them.

Thinking about doing a little smuggling, or other covert actions in a star system, or star sector, and need a few government/military/coast guard vessels to make life a little more interesting for those trying to do that.

My first thought was using a close escort, or system defense boat to pit against them, but quickly came to the conclusion that they'd be a bit overmatched, even with a bit of custom work to their merchant vessel(s).

Therefore, I'm thinking something a little smaller, and less well armed/armored might be just the ticket. Powerful enough to give them cause for concern, but perhaps small and slow enough to give them a fighting chance, especially if they heavily modify a vessel for more maneuvering speed/accel, and give it some decent sensors and weaponry.

Perhaps in some cases, the crew might even be better armed and faster than the patrol boats/gunboats, but on an equal footing numbers wise, or even outnumbered.

The odds might be in their favor initially, or most of the time, but taking a hit to their engines, fuel, or jump drive at the wrong moment may quickly change that as well.

So, are there any good patrol boat, or gunboat designs like that, in the CT Traders and Gunboats supplement, or have any of you come up with something like that for your own games?

I did a bit of searching here, for gunboats, but didn't run across any stats for them.

I'm considering various options based upon the ship's boat, slow boat, pinnace, and cutter hulls. Perhaps waiving some of the weaponry limitations as well, since these will be military designs.

Thoughts?

 

[tjoneslo]

I did a bit of searching here, for gunboats, but didn't run across any stats for them.

Did you try searching the wiki?

http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Fighter#Gunship

 

[GypsyComet]

There is the Heavy Fighter from Fighting Ships. HG stats only, but should map to B2 combat the way other small craft do.

 

[wbyrd]

I cant help out directly, ..well maybe but will have to go find some notes and give you something.... unfortunately I have to go and see if what I have will work for CT instead of Mongoose....

But when I doing the prep work for the catalog I have coming out there was a slight absence of several types of vessels in the available material. Patrol craft are fewer in number than you would think...since this is the sort of vessel a group is very likely to run into.

I tried to fill in those gaps but unfortunately its still in final production and wont be out for a bit...and it's MgT .... not that I wouldn't mind taking a crack at CT ships.

 

[Matt123]

Assuming they are smuggling to a back-water, perhaps consider a converted 600 ton type R Merchant as a patrol vessel carrying 10 ton fighters and a Ships boat for boarding actions.

The patrol carrier would typically stick close to the main planet and conduct anti-piracy sweeps with fighters deployed in pairs out to the 100d limit. It would do customs inspections on incoming starships with the Ships boat, several officials and a handful of Marines, plus a couple of fighters standing off.

With this arrangement the PC's would typically encounter pairs of fighters, with the fighters upping the game - calling for reinforcements once the PC's started shooting.

I haven't looked at the conversion specifics, but you get the idea, something cheap and minimal for back-waters to discourage casual piracy.

 

[Major B]

So, are there any good patrol boat, or gunboat designs like that, in the CT Traders and Gunboats supplement, or have any of you come up with something like that for your own games?

Mako, S7 only has two of what are in that volume called gunboats - the 400 ton Guardian SDB and the Gazelle Close Escort. Well, the Fiery variant of the Gazelle is statted there too.

I like Matt's suggestion got a converted merchant. Another idea could be the 200-ton SDB described in Supplement 9. Or fighters based out of the highport or a station posted farther out might do the trick.

 

[Procopius]

GURPS Traveller has a variant of the Far Trader that swaps out a single fighter bay for the cargo bay, which now that I think about it, I might have to make use of in my game.

 

[wbyrd]

two options

S-tye hull, dump cargo, and extra staterooms, add armor, and better sensors, boost speed to 4-6 range, and give it a single particle beam/particle barbette instead of lasers.

it could absorb a good bit of fire from missiles, and beam lasers at long range, and have the speed to stay outside of the engagement range of heavier weapons...and that particle beam will ignore sand, point defense, and insure at least one crew hit per attack....pirates/raiders/petty threats would have to worry about being cooked alive by a ship they cant catch, and cant hurt at it's chosen engagement range.

as a patrol boat, This little guy would dance around at long ranges, and snipe at threats with a fairly lethal weapon...it would be fairly cheap, and if it were pair with drones or a modified 200 ton freighter for support/supply the freighter could move in after the target is damaged/disabled and put aboard marines..

the the option is the s-type hull with it's extra staterooms removed and cargo space filled with 2 10 ton fighter drones, with the crew acting as a support command team, doing basic repairs refueling the drones, and directing them to investigate unusual blips, or distress calls.

a very small ship can cover a very big area...not with as much firepower as the particle boat...but two drones plus the scout patrol boats own guns...you get almost equivalent firepower of a ship twice the size. ( triple turret, +2 single missile launchers)

 

[flykiller]

or other covert actions in a star system

you could have a look at the q-ship version of the agzlu. link in the signature below.

 

[McPerth]

Not sure where my CT Traders and Gunboats book is, and haven't looked at it in quite some time, so can't recall if it includes stats for small patrol boats, but I suspect so, and imagine gunboats are just a different name for them.

Thinking about doing a little smuggling, or other covert actions in a star system, or star sector, and need a few government/military/coast guard vessels to make life a little more interesting for those trying to do that.

My first thought was using a close escort, or system defense boat to pit against them, but quickly came to the conclusion that they'd be a bit overmatched, even with a bit of custom work to their merchant vessel(s).

IMHO the fact the smugglers are overmatched by the customs patrols is all right. If we assume law and order is kept in the Imperium, we must assume law forces are up to the duty.

That does not mean there's no smuggling (or other crimes, for what's worth), just that direct confrontation with the law forces to smuggle things is not the smartest option.

Smuggling occurs, off course, but it's more based on stealth, either by hidden compartments, by profiting of low patroled zones in backwater planets or profiting of the sheer volume of traffic in high pop worlds. Only in backwater planets can you expect to avoid patrols, while in high traffic volume worlds just try not to call attention on your own ship (hey, we're just another merchant with legitimate cargo), as the customs cannot thoroughly search al lincoming (or outcoming) ships.

And off course, some well placed presents (bribes) and friends are quite helpful in all of it...

But if you try to smuggle through force, the most likely outcome is having your ship either destroyed or captured and impounded.

 

[Selandia]

I do not have T&G handy but in the starship encounter (I think that they have a table for that at the end) the Yatch was mentionned as patrol ship

That is a good idea. Go to the yard, order a 200T CT standard Yatch with barrack rather than fancy accomodation, fit a triple turret with weapons, use the ship boat for patrol, interception and inspection. Based on a Yatch, it does have extended patrol capabilities.

Remember, fighter chase and blow up thing, they do not perform proper Naval Control of Shipping. They may shoot blocade runners, they do not figure smugglers.

Trader with ship's boats or Gigs are great Q ships

have fun

Selandia

 

[wbyrd]

IMHO the fact the smugglers are overmatched by the customs patrols is all right. If we assume law and order is kept in the Imperium, we must assume law forces are up to the duty.

That does not mean there's no smuggling (or other crimes, for what's worth), just that direct confrontation with the law forces to smuggle things is not the smartest option.

Smuggling occurs, off course, but it's more based on stealth, either by hidden compartments, by profiting of low patroled zones in backwater planets or profiting of the sheer volume of traffic in high pop worlds. Only in backwater planets can you expect to avoid patrols, while in high traffic volume worlds just try not to call attention on your own ship (hey, we're just another merchant with legitimate cargo), as the customs cannot thoroughly search al lincoming (or outcoming) ships.

And off course, some well placed presents (bribes) and friends are quite helpful in all of it...

But if you try to smuggle through force, the most likely outcome is having your ship either destroyed or captured and impounded.

Good summation there...The last thing you want to do is shoot at the coast guard/navy/cops..they have a tendency to take it personally...

the best examples of smuggling are the rum runners of prohibition, and the blockade runners of the civil war...ships that used stealth and trickery to avoid detection made lots of money...ships that had the bad luck to be spotted well...they usually were captured or sunk.

 

[mike wightman]

Is your vision for insystem patrol boats one of non-jump capable ships patrolling the spacelanes?

If so a 400t standard hull has plenty of room for 5g drives, a squadron of fighters and accommodation for a 'customs inspection' squad or two.

 

[robject]

I have an old (1995-ish) deckplanned 100t in-system patrol boat, probably using Book 2. That was back when I was very new to Traveller.

On the same page of graph paper I also have a "flying wing" version of the 20 ton gig.

 

[Shadowrunner]

In the past I usually incorporated Type T, Gazelle, SDB, Fleet Courier 400 Tons and Ilivyr 400 Ton Carriers as common ships. We also imagined Maravas and Type Rs would be pressed into service as and when required. Fer-de-Lance and Chrysanthemum class make good encounters, with their larger size and power.

 

[Mako]

Thanks for all the info, and suggestions.

I agree with not fighting back against a "coast guard", or local star patrol force in many star systems, especially those of advanced tech, or that have a decent sized space force.

However, using the Earth paradigm, and knowing how weak, or non-existent forces like this are for many nations around the globe, I suspect it may be similar in space, for those really poor, or backwater star systems that can't afford much of a force at all, and any they can will be very weak, and poorly armed.

Think small pleasure-boat grade type vessels, which may be armed with a .30 cal, or .50 cal MG, if they're lucky. Others may be little more than small inflatable boats, and troops armed with rifles and pistols.

Some world's might not be able to afford any protection at all.

So, I was thinking about some 20 - 30 ton boats with perhaps a little better armament than a standard commercial variant listed in the LBB. Also, for better armed systems, perhaps a 50 - 60 ton cutter that's been uparmed as well.

A logical model would be a 30 ton ship's boat fitted out as a Long-range Patrol Boat, with say a 6 month endurance (so lots of extra fuel), and perhaps a bit more punch than a standard commercial model. Might have to de-rate, or downsize the engine a bit, so perhaps with only a maneuver speed of 3Gs - 5Gs as a tradeoff.

Given all the extra space in the cutter, it would be well suited for conversion to a heavily armed, or long-range patrol boat as well.

With little boats like that, I suspect pirates, smugglers, and others would have a pretty decent chance in a stand up fight, and/or running battle, if/when they choose to do so, just like in real life, around most of our globe.

 

[Travellerspud]

depending on the world's GNP (not a CT term, I know, but still a valid calculation) the most they may be able to afford is a ship's boat or cutter...or maybe 2 or 3 (that way one can be on station while the other 1 or 2 are on R&R / re-stock)

GURPS Starports has a 50 ton "Douane" class Customs Cutter that has a crew of 3 and can carry 17 troops (although there are no staterooms, and the accomodations are "cramped")..standard 4g performance and a triple turret

17 troops take 8.5 tons in couch space, so that could be 3 small craft staterooms instead carrying 6 troops (hot bunking) plus a small day room area for the 3 troops "on duty" to allow for extended patrol if needed (but why would a weak planet care about anything beyond it's far orbit?)

the next step up is a 100 ton or 200 ton boat; a stripped scout makes a decent patrol boat...on a budget

next you are into the dedicated 200 ton and 400 ton SDB boats...or a custom 400 ton with lots of extras (as mentioned, since there is no armor in CT)

 

[mike wightman]

For long patrols in-system crew comfort and accommodation will be of paramount importance.

I'd be tempted to use full size starship staterooms for the crew of any long duration small craft dedicated to in-system patrol.

 

[McPerth]

Thanks for all the info, and suggestions.

I agree with not fighting back against a "coast guard", or local star patrol force in many star systems, especially those of advanced tech, or that have a decent sized space force.

However, using the Earth paradigm, and knowing how weak, or non-existent forces like this are for many nations around the globe, I suspect it may be similar in space, for those really poor, or backwater star systems that can't afford much of a force at all, and any they can will be very weak, and poorly armed.

Think small pleasure-boat grade type vessels, which may be armed with a .30 cal, or .50 cal MG, if they're lucky. Others may be little more than small inflatable boats, and troops armed with rifles and pistols.

Some world's might not be able to afford any protection at all.

So, I was thinking about some 20 - 30 ton boats with perhaps a little better armament than a standard commercial variant listed in the LBB. Also, for better armed systems, perhaps a 50 - 60 ton cutter that's been uparmed as well.

A logical model would be a 30 ton ship's boat fitted out as a Long-range Patrol Boat, with say a 6 month endurance (so lots of extra fuel), and perhaps a bit more punch than a standard commercial model. Might have to de-rate, or downsize the engine a bit, so perhaps with only a maneuver speed of 3Gs - 5Gs as a tradeoff.

Given all the extra space in the cutter, it would be well suited for conversion to a heavily armed, or long-range patrol boat as well.

With little boats like that, I suspect pirates, smugglers, and others would have a pretty decent chance in a stand up fight, and/or running battle, if/when they choose to do so, just like in real life, around most of our globe.

While I agree in most your conclusions about those poor and backwater planets, I guess few money can be done by smuggling things into them, as people are either too poor or too few (or probably both) for business to be profitable.

Off course, they can be the source for those smuggled products (as drugs, rare spices, gems, etc), but their patrols are unlike to stop the traders paying for them (and so bringing hard currency to their planet).

This aside, even if the smugglers can outfight their patrols, this is likely to bring the attention of Imperial (or subsector) Navy or the MoJ...

The basis for sucessful smuggling should be stealth, not forcing their way by force, as this would sure attract more force to fight them.

 

[rancke]

While I agree in most your conclusions about those poor and backwater planets, I guess few money can be done by smuggling things into them, as people are either too poor or too few (or probably both) for business to be profitable.

It's two different scales. A poor community will have its rich people.

Off course, they can be the source for those smuggled products (as drugs, rare spices, gems, etc), but their patrols are unlike to stop the traders paying for them (and so bringing hard currency to their planet).

It's rare that it's necessary to smuggle a product out of the producing country (though there have been cases).

This aside, even if the smugglers can outfight their patrsols, this is likely to bring the attention of Imperial (or subsector) Navy or the MoJ...

THe basis for sucessful smuggling should be stealth, not forcing their way by forcé, as this would sure attract more forcé to fight them.

Agreed.


Hans