Perfect PC Sidearm

[simonh]

I sort of expect Traveller higher tech projectile weapons to go the caseless route. Due to not needing the barrel length as much for building up pressure you could go with carbine bullpup designs. The round could accellerate even more after leaving the muzzle and no brass cases flipping all over. Ammo may be easier to make if the ignition is all in the breech. Drop projectile into mold, pour propellant mix, run through a sizer die when dry and load in clip.

How does caseless ammo affect barrel length? At the end of the day you're still burning a propellant and using the resulting gass pressure to drive the round forward.

How would the round accelerate after leaving the barrell, does it also have built-in rocket propulsion as per a gyrojet?

Simon Hibbs

 

[whulorigan]

I sort of expect Traveller higher tech projectile weapons to go the caseless route. Due to not needing the barrel length as much for building up pressure . . .

How does caseless ammo affect barrel length? At the end of the day you're still burning a propellant and using the resulting gass pressure to drive the round forward.

How would the round accelerate after leaving the barrell, does it also have built-in rocket propulsion as per a gyrojet?

Perhaps shadowcat is confusing caseless ammo with ETC (Electro-Thermal Chemical) propellant.

Caseless ammo operates the same as standard modern propellant; it just doesn't have the brass casing.

ETC propellant uses electricity to ignite the ETC-propellant, which turns it into an expanding plasma behind the projectile. Unlike conventional propellant, which has a "pressure-spike" when it is first ignited, and then drops off as the bullet moves down the barrel, ETC has a more gradual buildup of pressure behind the bullet as it accelerates down the barrel (i.e. the ETC propellant continues to react as the bullet moves forward. It creates a smoother pressure curve, and much higher muzzle velocities without a huge initial pressure spike.

In TNE, I believe ETC rounds were standard for the TL10 ACR.


(ETC rounds were also caseless as well, IIRC).

 

[Jame]

I have unvoted and revoted for Laser pistol. Lack of recoil and comparative armor-v.-bulkhead penetration are my primary reasons, plus comparative availability v. gauss pistols.

Gauss pistol is a good backup otherwise.

 

[Blue Ghost]

I'll second that. We discussed the recoil issue some years back. If I can find the thread I'll post the link here.

 

[shadowcat20]

Guess I took a natural upgrade of caseless. I know it is like a standard round right now. I expect with space combat it would be more like light launching charge to leave barrel then gyrojet type acceleration to target. Light recoil but better terminal velocity at impact point. Add in a trick like the old Soviet Styx missiles for extra fun. Their unspent fuel was part of the bursting charge. So at close range the rounds would become APHE rounds.

Edit...went back and reread response...Yes ETC was more of what I had in mind.

 

[Nightwind1]

My characters often carry a combat auto snub pistol, because it can be used in both gravity wells and zero-g, with a wide variety of ammunition.

 

[Meeko100]

1) If the slide coming forward cancels a significant amount of recoil, are you giving your players a negative to damage? Remember, all the power of this weapon is coming from the explosive force of the propellant. If the slide coming forward is a significant counterbalance, it is stealing force from the bullets.

2) The five degrees a minute aren't a big deal to the character's spin, but they will effect aim for the subsequent shots.

Check out one of the slow mo videos of a a 9mm shooting. The bullet leaves the barrel well before the recoil spring can counter the slides movement. Then the slide is brought forward under the springs tension, bring the overall movement down. It may not be completely accurate, but its how I explain it.

And while 5 Deg/min will affect the subsequent shots, that's like saying the recoil with affect it. Its a small movement off target that the guy can then correct slightly for. If you still havemt found cover and arrested your motion/ended the shoot out by a minute plus, then you clearly should be worried a bit more about cover then aboutyour slight rotation. Even I can shoot a man sized target at 5ish yards at least once or twice in a minute. I may not be a IPDC shooter, but I can manage.

 

[kilemall]

Lubs my snubs!

 

[Condottiere]

For sidearms, I take my inspiration from ShadowRun.

Outside a Wild West themed planet, most metropolices don't want strangers walking down their street with open carry gauss pistols, considering that overkill and primarily intended to take out law enforcement officers. Nor oversized pig stickers.

Be inventive. And discrete.

 

[Spartan159]

For sidearms, I take my inspiration from ShadowRun.

Outside a Wild West themed planet, most metropolices don't want strangers walking down their street with open carry gauss pistols, considering that overkill and primarily intended to take out law enforcement officers. Nor oversized pig stickers.

Be inventive. And discrete.

Depending on the law level most metro police forces don't want anyone walking down the street armed, and a gauss pistol stands out less than a snub. (Which for all they know are HE or HEAP loaded.) *shrug*

 

[boomslang]

...a gauss pistol stands out less than a snub...

How do you figure that?

A Gauss pistol is long and lean, a snubbie is short and either fat (revolver) or tall (auto); concealment difficulty/ease is about the same for any of them, but a snubbie is simply a short-nosed, high-caliber slugthrower similar to a regular revolver or autopistol, while a Gauss pistol is a significantly higher-tech artifact.

The Gauss pistol will be easier to detect with a magnetic metal detector, the snub pistol (especially with HE or HEAP ammo loaded) will be more sniffable with a chemical detector.

But you walk onto a TL8 shooting range and pull out a Gauss pistol for a little target practice, and everybody is going to notice, while they otherwise ignore me putting plain slugs through my "little pop-gun" of a snub revolver down at the other end of the firing line.

Remember the snubbie is the standard shipboard security weapon, both ubiquitous and unobtrusive, and given that HE/HEAP rounds are illegal at LL1+, in practice most people will equate a snubbie with a Taser at first glance.

Whereas a Gauss pistol is an expensive, nearly-silent sidearm only for the well-heeled.

They are both good weapons; one is flashy to look at and subtle is use, the other is the reverse.

 

[Spartan159]

Eh, after doing some research it appears I was channeling TNE's Gauss Pistol which is a lighter beast. Using MT stats the Snub Revolver comes in smaller than a body pistol with a Length of .05m (Errata I think, CT is .1m, .05 is more akin to a derringer barrel length) and a weight of .2kg (.25kg CT) whereas the Snub Auto is .1m and .4kg. The Gauss Pistol comes in at .1m (.125m CT) and .6kg (.65kg CT).

For Comparison the Body Pistol has a length of .1m and a weight of .2kg, and the 9mm Auto has a length of .2m (.175m CT), weight .7kg (.75kg CT)

Excepting the 9mm Auto, all are pocket pistol sized.

Getting them past Starport/Checkpoint security would be the trick, I doubt police would normally carry magnetic or chemical detectors. Although that guard dog/beast might be an issue...

Just for interest relating to the muzzle velocity of the Snub round, the M72 LAW rocket has a muzzle velocity of 145 m/sec and an effective range of 200m.

The M203 Grenade Launcher has a muzzle velocity of 76 m/sec, effective range of 150m and max range of 400m. (And you can actually watch the round going downrange.)

 

[boomslang]

Getting them past Starport/Checkpoint security would be the trick, I doubt police would normally carry magnetic or chemical detectors. Although that guard dog/beast might be an issue...

Well, if you are looking to sneak concealed ballistic hand weapons through security checkpoints or past routine stop-and-frisk patrols, there are drawbacks either way you go. Uplinked body cams and maybe pepper spray might be a better option at LL5+.

In the bush or in the black there are other, different considerations, of course.

 

[mike wightman]

IMTU
TL8 - snub pistol, snub PDW
TL9 - accelerator rifle, accelerator pistol, accelerator PDW
TL10 - accelerator/snub combo versions of the above

 

[Khan Trav]

The choice may be more a matter of version. I really enjoy any CT material I can obtain and read. Help my memory here because it has been a long time for some of this. Didn't most of the ships lockers listed in the LBB adventures have the auto-pistol as the standard sidearm? With cutlass as a close second? I bet someone on here has a database or some kind of specific data. I also remember shotguns being high on the list as well.

 

[Blue Ghost]

I seem to recall that shotguns and autopistols were the weapons of choice in most adventure loadouts.

 

[boomslang]

Didn't most of the ships lockers listed in the LBB adventures have the auto-pistol as the standard sidearm? With cutlass as a close second? I bet someone on here has a database or some kind of specific data. I also remember shotguns being high on the list as well.

Shotguns and SMGs were typical Ship's Locker kit in the IISS; each has the advantages of being relatively low-tech combined with modest Dexterity requirements and a significantly-helpful To Hit DM because of the multiple projectiles discharged by a single trigger pull.

The Cutlass is presented as the standard hand-to-hand boarding/anti-boarding weapon, as it is also relatively low-tech (TL3 as opposed to TL1 for the Sword is still low-tech aboard a starship) and features an advantageous To Hit DM from a modestly above-average Strength characteristic.

After Book 4 and Beltstrike, we are told the Snub Pistol (specifically the Snub Revolver as distinguished from the personal-favorite Snub Autopistol) is "the standard shipboard security weapon, generally loaded with one Gas and five Tranq rounds" as may suit.

Low-tech, low-maintenance slug throwers and heavy, long blades may never be obsoleted as kinetic energy delivery systems for combat purposes, it would appear...

 

[Condottiere]

Guns are the delivery system, and don't need to be high tech; ammunition can be.

At the basic level, a foldable stock bolt action hunting rifle for survival situations.

 

[Timerover51]

Guns are the delivery system, and don't need to be high tech; ammunition can be.

At the basic level, a foldable stock bolt action hunting rifle for survival situations.

I would prefer something like a Marble Game Getter for survival situations, maybe in the original configuration with the option of a .44-40 round ball round.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marble_Game_Getter

As for for which pistol I would prefer, that would depend on what I am anticipating running into. Fishing in Alaska would be one thing, protecting my home would be another.

 

[Khan Trav]

Originally Posted by Condottiere
Guns are the delivery system, and don't need to be high tech; ammunition can be.

At the basic level, a foldable stock bolt action hunting rifle for survival situations.

Like This?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4_Survival_Rifle