Piracy: A primer
- Thread starter Hal
- Start date
The only other way you're going to have traffic through any star that's not a major port - is if you have ships that ply the trade lanes between two major worlds, and the port is a way point. So, those D and E star ports might see a fair number of hulls than you might otherwise expect.
One of the "issues" that came up over the past few years (might even have been here perhaps?) those trade tables and passenger tables etc - are only for passengers within Jum p distance of the ship itself. If you have jump 1 drives, then any passengers available will only be those who want to go to the world within 1 jump. It doesn't take into account the fact that there might be worlds in which passengers want to go Adabicci from Lunion for example, and the only means of transport are Jump 1 ships. Does that mean then, that there will never be any passengers who want to go to the other world, simply because there aren't any Jump-3 vessels in port? Seriously?
GURPS TRAVELLER on the other hand, establishes a trade route relationship based upon the worlds themselves, and modifies it the further the travel is that has to occur between the two worlds. A passenger who wants to get from Lunion to Adabicci - is going to take what ever he can that will get him there. A freighter captain could easily announce "Passage to Adabicci by way of Derchon and Ianic first. Now accepting passengers to any of those three worlds." THAT would easily result in the ship being able to get the passengers that want to go there, and people who apply to get space aboard the ship. Now, if one passenger only wants to get as far as Derchon, then a cabin becomes available at Derchon for either of Ianic or Adabicci. The captain would announce "Now accepting passengers to Adibicci by way of Ianic."
Again, this is an IMTU aspect - but some of my arguments against the 1,000 credits per jump versus 1,000 credits per parsec were adopted by Mongoose Traveler. A non-stop flight from LA to NYC shouldn't cost $1,000 while a Flight from LA to Chi and from Chi to NYC shouldn't cost $2,000. Businesses have to charge a fee that permits them to pay off their expenses of running the business and make some profit, or they go bankrupt.
If we expect our NPC's to act reasonably appropriately - and Human NPC's to act human, then we're going to have to acknowledge that the human way of doing things will likely be the way things are done in the far future. Cultures change and technology changes to be sure - but human nature remains human nature.
So, pirates waiting for a ship to appear at a jerkwater system is one way of looking at it, or shipping patterns and trade routes would be another way of looking at things. Regardless of how a GM runs his universe, no matter how game systems resolve the issue - the rules should guide the narrative. If the narrative says "yes" but the rules when applied say "no" then something is wrong.
Pirates - by nature of the Jump Space, can't attack there. The ONLY place to attack is in normal space. If exit from Jump space is relatively inaccurate (see JTAS #24 to see the basis for that comment) then even a convoy approach to jumping isn't necessarily going to insure that ships aren't going to scatter and be vulnerable to the possibility of an attack by pirates.
So, where does it come to pass that prey (freighters) are in normal space long enough to get nailed?
Getting fuel from a gas giant so as to not pay for refined fuel? Ok
Having to transit to a jump point? Ok
Having to avoid Jump Shadow or what have you? NEW and I don't like it, but ok
Having jump Emergence accuracy rules? Not in the original CT rules, but now exists in T5, etc
Anything that places the ship in a "must journey through normal space" category. This thread was intended to examine whether or not pirates can succeed or not, and the methods used to do so. Using a "in the sensor shadow" approach of having someone say "hey, Freighter just left the surface for the jump point, his exit vector was..." is a possibility. Knowing that a ship in orbit around a planet having to change his vector and start an intercept from there, might prove to be useful - and give him extra time to approach or match vectors unseen. Maybe the use of STEALTHED ships (Using GURPS TRAVELLER technology and now, apparently MgT technology rules) gives the pirates even more of an edge. I'm trying to stay away from that for now simply because some game systems might not have that concept, or because I'm trying to keep it where the pirates are using essentially off the shelf technology and products that they can easily enough steal.
A pinnace has a 4G rating. A ship's boat has a 6G rating. It can't carry much, but if it is armed and the prey aren't, that's going to change how things get done. If prey know to resist invites getting damaged, and most pirates don't MURDER or what have you (aside from collateral damage from combat), then it is likely that most captains will surrender and heave too upon receiving the shot across the bow.
Hopefully, people will say "ok, here's the problem" and then start saying "Here is how I'd do it". Instead of getting "This is unlikely, or this has to be such, or <insert discussion here>.
Let's turn this into what the thread suggests...
A primer on piracy. How does it work, what needs to happen to make it work? What are the tactical considerations?
Imagine if you will, a pirate coordinating his own "missile defense" and hires a mercenary unit with stinger equivalent missiles. The base begins to launch the fighters, and they get hit with bogey alerts of missile lock ons and sensor returns. Now, the fighters have to deal with launching anti-missile flares, evasive maneuvering, etc. If you have six fighters and 18 anti-fighter missiles (wonder how much they cost per Striker rules?) - will they be kept engaged enough to be relatively useless in the Freighter/Pirate drama?
No PIRATE worth his salt isn't going to try to force the engagement in his favor. Prey that are unarmed. Sensor nets that go down, sensor operators who are slow on the uptake because they were bribed to do so (although that would make me nervous on the grounds "what if they don't do as they're paid to do?") etc.
So, identify the issues, and then identify ways to get around the issues, nullify the issues, or even destroy the issues.
If a Type-T cruiser is taken out of the equation, it will take time for the Navy to replace it. Pirates on the other hand, if they lose a ship, simply go about finding a new ship to steal. If computer lock down codes keep one from using a ship, then steal a ship in a remote location, remove the computers and install your own to replace it. Otherwise, steal the codes you need, hack the codes you need, or simply hold a gun to the poor schlep who has the codes and refuses. Execute the one resisting guy, in front the other guy, and say "he chose poorly, what's your answer? This ship is ours or you die within 20 seconds" Soldiers trying to protect a ship have more reasons to resist than do freighter crew who think "it isnt' worth my life"
So, again, primer on piracy. What are the issues? Can those issues be resolved? What are the likely responses from a unit that isn't alert to the potential attack? What happens if the local defenses ARE alert? What if the Defenses have been heightened because someone went through the star port and were recognized as having been a person of interest or a known associate of a known criminal?
If you want information on flight plans, how do you get them? Can you insert a signal repeater at someone's desk that copies the keystrokes, or hears the spoken words (for voice interactive computers)? Can someone be blackmailed to render assistance?
HOW
DOES
PIRACY
WORK?
the alternative is to force GM's to work it out on their own, and conclude it can't happen because the listen to those who say it can't happen. They don't have someone saying "HERE IS HOW IT WORKS".
So, like some good Sergeants or NCO's...
Don't give me the problem. Give me the problem and the solution to the problem. If I say "what would you do" - then tell me what you'd do.
The mercenary attack with man portable missiles would possibly work to divert or damage the 6G fighters would it not?
*NOTE TO SELF: explore what is involved with having a mercenary team in place before the attack goes off. Find out the cost of said mercenaries and missiles versus the expected reward. The mercenaries might be too costly to make it financially worth the while.
That's what I've been doing over the years. If I have you as a definite, can I use you for play testing the code to insure it works?
I'll send my email address to you in a Private message. The process is - I have to be able to reliably add rectangular coordinates together in building the vectors involved. I already have the code that converts rectangular coordinates to polar - that's for database record keeping purposes more than anything else.
I even was close to the algorithm for how to add vectors together. I'd have to redo it and rediscover it after being away from it (I didn't keep my notes like I should have darn it). But what had stopped me back then was this...
Distance = 1/2A x T x T. That determines where the ship ends up. The rule that the new vector is determined by drawing a line from the old position to the new position means that I should be able to simply do that in the program.
Where I got stuck was this...
Velocity equals Acceleration x time plus previous velocity. Distance travelled is equal to 1/2AT^2. Does this produce two separate vectors that I need to account for.
Process as I had it initially?
1) Old location - angle and scalar value of vector relative to the sun's 0,0 location.
2) Ship's accumulated velocity is a vector. If nothing changes, this vector added to where the ship is currently, will result in a new "end point" or final location.
3) Acceleration: if the ship accelerates, its distance travelled due to acceleration will be equal to 1/2 AT^2. This determines the real final end point.
In theory? All I have to do is convert the new location to polar, and that becomes the turn's next "old location". The ship's accumulated vector should in theory, be simply determining what the new vector is relative to the ship's by drawing a line from the old position to the new position (to determine that line's length) and the bearing would be where the old position is and what direction the ship has to go to get to the new location. THAT is where I had stopped.
The math involved? Sun's location is zero, zero. The ship's center of mass is zero, zero, with its accumulated vector relative to the ship's zero,zero. The ship's final location needs to be determined not just with the sun's zero,zero - but also with the ship's zero,zero.
Once THAT is done? And I test it by having people say "this is where the ship starts out, the ship's built up velocity is at that moment, zero, and this is the bearing I take, with the G's acceleration used." do that for maybe five turns worth of movement, and by hand, calculate what the answers SHOULD Be. This is independent of what I'm doing. When I plug in your instructions, we both should be reasonably close to the same answers, depending on how much we truncate or round off our math etc.
I just rattled this privately to someone who likes/enjoys Classic Traveler:
"Process:
Vector of ship’s location relative to the zero, zero of the star system’s center of gravity. Anything can be described by its relation to the center of the star – planets (useful for planetary motion), ships, missiles, etc. This is known as the “Starting position” for the object in question.
Vector of built up velocity – relative to the thing in question. Ie, the built up velocity uses the item’s center of mass as the zero, zero reference. This vector, when added to the “Starting position” location, determines the new location if the object does not accelerate.
Vector of change if acceleration occurs: this is treated as a displacement change. Displacement is equal to ½ AT^2. This is a “end of movement” vector change, so the end of location becomes the new zero,zero for purposes of calculation where the ship really ends up – the NEW LOCATION.
If acceleration does occur, then the program must create a NEW built up velocity vector by treating the old location as zero,zero, and the new location as the place where the new built up velocity vector needs to point to.
The final location (old built up velocity plus new velocity change) must then be calculated to get the new “starting position” for next turn."
"Process:
Vector of ship’s location relative to the zero, zero of the star system’s center of gravity. Anything can be described by its relation to the center of the star – planets (useful for planetary motion), ships, missiles, etc. This is known as the “Starting position” for the object in question.
Vector of built up velocity – relative to the thing in question. Ie, the built up velocity uses the item’s center of mass as the zero, zero reference. This vector, when added to the “Starting position” location, determines the new location if the object does not accelerate.
Vector of change if acceleration occurs: this is treated as a displacement change. Displacement is equal to ½ AT^2. This is a “end of movement” vector change, so the end of location becomes the new zero,zero for purposes of calculation where the ship really ends up – the NEW LOCATION.
If acceleration does occur, then the program must create a NEW built up velocity vector by treating the old location as zero,zero, and the new location as the place where the new built up velocity vector needs to point to.
The final location (old built up velocity plus new velocity change) must then be calculated to get the new “starting position” for next turn."
Just some numbers. A Size 1 world has 1/64th the surface area of an earth-sized Size 8. A hydrographics percentage of 1 means 10% of the surface is liquid something, usually water but sometimes something else on the exotic worlds. Earth is estimated to have some 332,500,000 cubic miles of water. Canonically this is 70% of its surface. 10%, assuming the same depth, would be 33,250,000 cubic miles of water. 1/64th would be 519,531.25 cubic miles - again, assuming the same depth. Assuming shrinkage to scale (i.e. shallower seas) a hydro 7 size 1 world would have 649,414 cubic miles of water, and a hydro 1 would have 1/7 of that or 92,773 cubic miles.
Cubic miles. A cubic mile is 4.16818 * 109 cubic meters, 308,754,074 metric tons. Figure 1/8 of that is hydrogen: 38,594,259 tons of hydrogen. Or, enough to send 964 200-dTon ships on a jump-4. And we're saying there's at least close to a hundred thousand of those cubic miles on the world. Enough to send those 964 200-dTon ships on a jump-4 every two weeks for 4 thousand years.
Practically speaking, there is no chance of a world of hydrographics 1 or larger significantly diminishing its total water supply by refueling passing ships. Now, what the population thinks, that's something different. Where water is dear, people might not like the idea of passing ships sucking it up and taking it away. That can rile people up, even with the science types throwing hard numbers at them to show it's not really a problem.
Canonically, pirates do not raid A/B worlds, at least as of Book 2 1981, which is logical since ports with the most traffic will also put the most effort into protecting that traffic. Canonically, they only occasionally show up at C ports, 3 in 36 chance, and oddly enough they're more likely to show up if there's a scout or naval base there. I take that as some foreign government doing some hanky panky to gather intel and embarrass the Imperium. More likely at a D, about as likely at an E - the lack of defense at an E is presumably offset by the reduced opportunity for prizes. But, one doesn't go raiding where there's a certainty that it will end in one's death, so they don't bother As and Bs.
More likely at an X, and in fact there's a 50:50 chance that the patrol cruiser or merc cruiser you meet is some sort of piratical hostile, but mercs are notorious for their loose morals and that patrol cruiser might just be a naval vessel whose corrupt captain is looking to shake down someone who shouldn't be there in the first place for an easy score.
The problem with correlating ocean-going shipping with Trav space shipping is jump space. Trav shipping is more like a ship leaving Boston, going out to the border of the 200 mile exclusive economic zone, and then disappearing from this world and reappearing a week later at the 200 mile limit of Britain. Subs waiting in between under that scenario are going to be disappointed; they need to get close if they want to bag a prize, and of course that brings them closer to the port and its defenses. Boston and London are likely to have formidable defenses, Tunis or Abidjan less so, and if you want to just pull up on some random fishing village that has no port facilities, or on some empty stretch of coastline, you can't expect anyone to be there to protect you.
Piracy as a process -
it's not enough to intercept as a pirate - you have to intercept at matched velocities.
Why? because if you don't match velocities at intercept, you cannot acquire, board, nor make a prolonged stand.
This makes it bloody hard to do. I know it's doable formulaically. I also know that it's a pain to do.
The best process for a pirate...
wait to see local loading valuables for a neighboring system
Jump at least 6 hours before they do, so you're likely to arrive before them.
Loiter at the most likely dejump location, at low relative velocity to their expected arrival
Depart via jump before locals notice you've robbed the incoming ship.
Also note: Local forces do not need to be at zero-relative - they just want to stop the pirate. They can afford a full burn, while the pirate must slow for the match-up or lose the opportunity. Why? because the missiles will intercept and do more, and they can just fire them all at range for kill of pirate in single volley.
it's not enough to intercept as a pirate - you have to intercept at matched velocities.
Why? because if you don't match velocities at intercept, you cannot acquire, board, nor make a prolonged stand.
This makes it bloody hard to do. I know it's doable formulaically. I also know that it's a pain to do.
The best process for a pirate...
wait to see local loading valuables for a neighboring system
Jump at least 6 hours before they do, so you're likely to arrive before them.
Loiter at the most likely dejump location, at low relative velocity to their expected arrival
Depart via jump before locals notice you've robbed the incoming ship.
Also note: Local forces do not need to be at zero-relative - they just want to stop the pirate. They can afford a full burn, while the pirate must slow for the match-up or lose the opportunity. Why? because the missiles will intercept and do more, and they can just fire them all at range for kill of pirate in single volley.
All the more reason for traders to avoid potential areas with piracy. A simple pirate report may be enough to dry up trade for months until some kind of all clear signal is made by authorities. And, while a few traders may be initially inconvenienced by this, it's the worlds themselves that are effectively embargoed that suffer the most. Drying up development or forcing them to appeal to the Imperium or invest locally to deter piracy in order to attract trade. Perhaps some hearty adventurers that happen to have an armed ship will be willing to make the run, but, again, it better be worth their while as it can as likely lead to ruin. Perhaps the contracts have "plus any damages incurred" clauses.
"That piracy can happen" from anecdotal incidents is different from organized Corsairs flying Jolly Roger Starship bumper stickers headquartered in a secret base. The trick is striking the balance between risk and reward, both for the traders flying through troubled space and for the pirates that are making the trouble in the first place.
You can just try and run a simple game of one Free Trader ("the pirate") trying to over take another to the jump point. Similarly, you can set up a radius from the planet ("inner system defense zone") and try to intercept an incoming jump before the trader crosses that as a victory condition. Don't need a lot of infrastructure to game those scenarios out.
The "100D" game is the only thing that's interesting because that's where everything happens. If it's not within 100D of the planet, it's within "100D" of something else. The only time anything would happen in deep space is when one ship is faster than the other and catches up, a running fight. Especially with Traveller M-Drives that are not limited by reaction mass, the most efficient trip is to burn to the middle, turn over, and decelerate burn to the destination, with no time to visit in the middle. A deep space pirate ship, trying to intercept a trader from Jupiter to Earth, is going to have to compete with 70 hours of acceleration. Not impossible, surely, but its not nothing either. You can't simply lie in wait at the pass, and wait for the stage to go by.
If the system has the resources to patrol the gas giant(s), then they probably have to resources to more than adequately patrol to deter pirate activity. Save at wartime, gas giants aren't really worth patrolling. If there's a commercial interest, then, sure (i.e. your hydro starved world for example). But as a routine procedure? Nah, nobody cares. Nobody is going to try to starve out random wanderers, nefarious or no, from hitting a gas giant. While the system will take notice of a ships arrival in deep space, they don't really care. Out there, the ship is basically harmless. When it starts to close, when it starts giving strange tales "that we've all heard before" as to why you're not behaving to protocol (because deep space isn't interesting, you should be jumping close), then they may take notice. But there is plenty of time to do that. Take notice, and react if necessary.
A pirate is not going to "sneak in" and prowl undetected.
A possible more interesting potential "pirate" scenario is raiding a busy asteroid mining operation. Lots of little ships flitting about in busy space clouded by a zillion asteroids. Dangerous operations where ships/miners go missing routinely. The pirate activity can be easily shrouded by just the normal dangerous operations.
But remember, space is very big, and very uninteresting. The less time spent there, the better.
Hello Folks,
This is my last post at Coti after many years of association (since 2002). Many of you I've left a private message on your profile page. To those of you who wish to remain in touch, feel free to drop me a message in my private messages. I've cleared them of all messages.
As to this warning, I'm not certain what your frame of mind was, nor whether you normally do a better job of handling your duties. One would think you'd have a better capacity to say in private messages "Hey Hal..." air your concerns, and find out whether or not I was "Yelling" in all caps, or if I was simply trying to emphasize a point.
So - you've given me pause to think, and ask do I really want to have to deal with a lack of communication capacity with you or not, and the answer is not particularly. You guys will do just fine without me, and I will be forgotten within moments of this last post. To bad that you just now have to deal with the fact that just as you have the power to ban and censure people, so too people have the power of association and simply remove themselves from here.
Every time a community loses a person through death, it becomes diminished. Every idea, every collaboration, every synergistic effect that each person brings to the fellowship of those who love Traveller, hopefully enriches the entire community. But when a fellowship starts to lose people due to the moderators themselves, then there is going to be that much harder a time trying to keep this community going.
You can't fix what you don't know is wrong. Hitting me with that warning without privately saying "Hey Hal, this is what set my administrator's ire off. Were you shouting, or were you trying to simply emphasize a point? I've known you as a regular here, and you usually are pretty well behaved, is there anything wrong?"
Instead, I get blindsided. So. Here's a critique of your Moderator style. I cared enough to at least let you know WHY this list lost a member from 2002. That doesn't give me any special rights, nor does it give me any illusions - being here since 2002. It simply says "hey, Hal felt comfortable here for 17 years, and YOU managed to drive him away."
You should get your hands on The Traveller Adventure, if you don't already have it. There they have canonical examples of ships that ply jump-2 and jump-3 routes, and they incidentally also have a decent example of the circumstances under which some ships might be pirating. Two, if you count the Vargr.
As I said, piracy occurs because people in power let it occur. It would take no more than 1 to 2 percent of the entire Imperial Navy budget to place the kinds of defenses that would stop piracy at every Imperial system's major world. A couple of squadrons of 10 dTon 6g fighters in every system, patrolling the planet's orbital space, flying in pairs. Sensor rules and weapons ranges are such that when one pair encountered a threat, within its 600 thousand kilometer sensor range, other nearby pairs could also lock and fire weapons on the target, so long as they're within 900,000 miles. Your size 8 world's jump line, at 1,280,000 klicks radius, is about 8 million kilometers in circumference - one pair every 800,000 klicks, providing overlapping sensor coverage and overlapping fire, albeit at very long range. Total cost, MCr 360 per world, MCr 97,200 for the Marches - a bit more than half the cost of a dreadnought.
The Admiralty will tell you that they don't do it because it isn't worth the cost to protect worlds that can't afford to protect themselves. They have a job to do, and that job is to protect you from the larger threat, not chase mosquitoes. What they don' tell you is that, in order to protect the sector from potential invading fleets, they need a network of scouts in most of the systems in the Imperium, hiding in deep space and watching for the tell-tale jump flash that might indicate a sizeable ship or a fleet appearing in the system, training telescopes on the site of the flash to watch for star occlusions that might hint at vector and size, collating their observations with the other hidden scouts by laser link to triangulate and obtain the best guess as to size and numbers. A network of several scouts in each system, so one can alert a nearby naval base, and, in wartime, for one to jump to each of the scout networks of neighboring systems with the intel while the rest stay behind to continue watching, so any Imperial fleet passing through can get reasonably current intel about the neighboring systems from the scout network in that system. A lot of times, they're watching these pirate versus merchant battles going on, hard not to with laser strikes and explosions and all. And, they do nothing. They're not allowed to. It's one of the Scout Service's greatest secrets. Well, mostly secret; it's hard to keep a drunk scout quiet.
Well, that's my TU, but that's the only way I've been able to figure on fleets having enough intelligence to be able to find enemy fleets before they hit something important, and that's the only way I've been able to figure on having piracy go on under such observation without the Imperium taking its little pinky and wiping the entire piracy problem out. It's really a dilemma: either the Imperium is blind to piracy in the hinterlands - and therefore also blind to the enemy fleet that runs Oort to Oort making their way toward Rhylanor, or they have eyes but choose not to see the little things.
Like the Imperial rules of war that permit worlds to have wars to relieve social stresses, there is an unwritten rule that the Imperium won't intervene as megacorps and subsector nobles duel it out by proxy because they want a mechanism to relieve those stresses too, or at least that's what they tell themselves when the nobles get together and very pointedly ignore the continuing elephant in their midst. And in the middle of that, the occasional rogue merchant captain, or the organized crime syndicate, or the occasional Vargr or Sword Worlds captain going a'viking, can capitalize to their profit - so long as they keep it at a level that doesn't cause too much trouble to powerful people. Because all it takes is for the Imperium to lift one little pinky, and the fun and games are over.
So, how does piracy work? You get a patron, and you deal yourself into the little game that the nobles and the megacorps and the organized crime syndicates are playing. They tell you where good prizes will be and when, they fence your prizes, you get the lion's share of the profit to divide among your crew, they get their cut - and usually the satisfaction of having pinched the nose of some rival. Or you go solo and hope for the best. Maybe you can run across the border to the neutral worlds to sell your loot on Ruie or Tionale; both are likely to have no-questions-asked policies with regard to goodies from the Imperium.
But, you need to be careful because there is some small effort by subsector nobles to police things and keep their noses from getting pinched, and the organized groups - if they find you - may make you an offer you can't refuse, to join their organization and stop free-lancing or become a target.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
The question then is, how much traffic is a Class D or E starport likely to get? D is an installation with water present at the designated landing area and not much else. E is simply a spot designated for landing, presumably a solid enough surface to handle the weight of a ship. An X planet does not even have that. How likely is a pirate going to go to a planet like that, where ships are few and far between? How much cargo and how many passengers are you going to have at a D or E class port? One thing about the Trade Route chart in the 1977 edition was that it gave some indication as to where ships were going. If Jump-2 or greater, they are not going to D and E class planets/
Why would a Free Trader or more likely a Far Trader go to an X-class planet? You need to have ships carrying something of value to justify a pirate operating there on a regular basis. How many months would a pirate have to sit at an X-class planet before a possible target shows up? A planet with no starport indicates a planet that has nothing worth developing it for.
You might want to take a look at a map showing submarine sinkings, especially in World War 1, where they cluster very heavily near the coasts of Ireland and Great Britain. The subs were where they could locate ships easily, so near the arrival and departure ports. In Traveller terms, near the arrival and departure jump points, which is where a ship should be on highest alert.
Then there is the whole problem of matching velocities and travel vectors in three dimensions with an evading ship target. Once you match velocity and somehow fasten the pirate to the ship target, you still have to board it and deal with any reception committee. The pirate also has to hope that this is not a "Q-ship", specifically intended to lure a pirate into attacking it for the purpose of destroying the pirate. Remember, the pirate wants an intact or at least reasonably intact ship to loot, a Q-ship has not such worries. For that matter, the attacked ship has no such worries either.
Personally, I just do not seem space piracy as a viable theme. Planet raiding is much more likely.
Since classic doesn't give us numbers, no way to tell. I understand GURPS has some traffic data, and that equation they use does result in a little traffic coming out of D/E worlds. X I've already speculated on; I can't see any other way for there to be piracy at an X world.
I don't have a trade route chart, so I can't speak to that.
Typically because there are players aboard. Within setting, I'd say smugglers or fortune hunters, since X-class ports are for red-zone worlds, or at least that's the way it seems to be playing out in the Spinward Marches, except that the free and far traders are pretty pathetic smuggling craft.
Good, that's where they need to be. Now all we need is some way to cloak the pirate ships, or else replace the subs with destroyers and give the ports patrol ships with cruise missiles and 100 mile range radar then see what happens. Trav's sensor and missile rules make life very difficult for the honest hard-working pirate.
That's pretty much been the consensus. We've had to come up with a lot of rationalizations to make it work, and it still falters on the problem of pirates finding sufficient targets to justify the effort without going someplace where the pirate's more likely to get shot up than win a prize. It's nicely dramatic, but making it work requires a good bit of willing suspension of disbelief.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Traveller facts:
there is piracy in the OTU/3I
there is a pirate career path
pirates turn up on random encounter tables
Mayday scenario 3
The presence of pirates on the random encounter tables are a relic of the original intent of the Traveller rules - adventures on the fringe of civilisation.
As Traveller morphed into The Third Imperium rpg the Spinward Marches changed from a frontier sector to a region that has been settled and developed for nearly a millennia, with massive battlefleets in every subsector - a far cry from a single Kinunir being able to put down any rebellion
In a frontier sector, where the Navy can not be everywhere at once, piracy may occur:
opportunist ethically challenged merchant
raiders from across the border
criminal organisations
freedom fighters/rebel scum
I rationalised privateering as being something given tacit authorisation by rival nobels, rival world governments and rival megacorporations - they call it trade war, I call it piracy.
Vargr raiders, Sword World Vikings, Ine Givar rebels, Oberlindes - I've used them all as pirates.
There is a reason for the success of MgT Pirates of Drinax.
there is piracy in the OTU/3I
there is a pirate career path
pirates turn up on random encounter tables
Mayday scenario 3
The presence of pirates on the random encounter tables are a relic of the original intent of the Traveller rules - adventures on the fringe of civilisation.
As Traveller morphed into The Third Imperium rpg the Spinward Marches changed from a frontier sector to a region that has been settled and developed for nearly a millennia, with massive battlefleets in every subsector - a far cry from a single Kinunir being able to put down any rebellion
In a frontier sector, where the Navy can not be everywhere at once, piracy may occur:
opportunist ethically challenged merchant
raiders from across the border
criminal organisations
freedom fighters/rebel scum
I rationalised privateering as being something given tacit authorisation by rival nobels, rival world governments and rival megacorporations - they call it trade war, I call it piracy.
Vargr raiders, Sword World Vikings, Ine Givar rebels, Oberlindes - I've used them all as pirates.
There is a reason for the success of MgT Pirates of Drinax.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Back to basics time:
This ship needs a base and support boats, where are they and who builds the bases and provides the infrastructure?
they have a rank structure, you can retire with a pension, you are likely to have low soc, lower still if you roll badly when mustering out, but the icing on the cake are the ships they get to run around in:
Where do these ships come from? Who builds them? Who refuels them?
This ship needs a base and support boats, where are they and who builds the bases and provides the infrastructure?
who _can_ do those things?
external polities supporting guerilla operations
counter-culture polities supporting guerilla operations
shamed/defeated/banished former members of legitimate mainstream entities
where can they do those things?
border/balkanized regions
unincorporated/unaffiliated (yet high tech) regions
market-capable regions (skin-wearing spearchuckers won't be interested in buying stolen computers)
of course, someone once said "the best way to rob a bank is to be a bank".
The Oz
SOC-14 1K
Piracy exists where it is protected, which means where the bases of piracy are protected. This occurs in one of three ways (but note that these ways are not exclusive, so they can [and have] all exist at the same time).
1) Other (hostile, if not actively at war) governments protect them. If the pirates are civilians, then this is called privateering and the civilians have "letters of marque and reprisal" or "privateering commissions" (not the same thing) and are in this for a profit. If the pirates are military, this is called "commerce raiding" or "prize warfare".
2) Factions within the government protect them. These factions can be nobles, merchants, or subdivisions of the state. Historically these were Whigs vs. Tories, or London merchants vs. Bristol merchants, or New York colony vs. Maryland colony. In the 3rd Imperium it might be dueling dukes, or manipulative megacorps, or scheming subsectors.
3) The pirates protect themselves. This is what we see in the "Pirates of the Caribbean" movies. It doesn't happen for real, not for long. Pirates cannot muster the combat power of nation-states, so as soon as the nation-states can turn their attention to the pirates, self-protecting pirates get squished.
1) Other (hostile, if not actively at war) governments protect them. If the pirates are civilians, then this is called privateering and the civilians have "letters of marque and reprisal" or "privateering commissions" (not the same thing) and are in this for a profit. If the pirates are military, this is called "commerce raiding" or "prize warfare".
2) Factions within the government protect them. These factions can be nobles, merchants, or subdivisions of the state. Historically these were Whigs vs. Tories, or London merchants vs. Bristol merchants, or New York colony vs. Maryland colony. In the 3rd Imperium it might be dueling dukes, or manipulative megacorps, or scheming subsectors.
3) The pirates protect themselves. This is what we see in the "Pirates of the Caribbean" movies. It doesn't happen for real, not for long. Pirates cannot muster the combat power of nation-states, so as soon as the nation-states can turn their attention to the pirates, self-protecting pirates get squished.
It could happen during a war, when nation-states are too busy with each other to be able to spare forces for pirate hunting. But then, wars end eventually, and nation-states remember piracy - even if the pirates are smart and disciplined enough to actually stop pirating when the war ends.
Or if the pirates are too unimportant, their activities too low in profile, to justify the use of force necessary to destroy the pirates. But then, any activity level low enough to not be worth squishing is probably not profitable.
The Oz
SOC-14 1K
Exactly what happened to most real-life pirates. Even if some of the captains wanted to stop when the wars stopped, there were always enough pirate crew who wanted to keep going, and pirate captains who were willing to lead them.
And if the pirates aren't making enough money, the crews drift away (or mutiny) and the piracy problem fades.
The Oz
SOC-14 1K
Possible adventure hook:
In a trade war situation I imagine the 3rd Imperium keeps a close eye upon the combatants, to ensure that the violence is restricted to only the actual factions involved (which allows for trouble enough, given the way that ownership of corporations and property can be hidden).
I'm thinking about property of one corporation that is legitimately seized by another in a proper trade war. Presumably the 3rd Imperium has legal mechanisms to allow that property to become the legal property of the seizing corporation. Historically this was a "Prize Court" where the paperwork, witnesses, etc., would be examined and ownership decided. BTW, Prize Courts were famous for slow, and corrupt, work. If the Court decided that the capture was "good prize" the captor would get full and legal ownership of the prize.
So imagine a cargo of computers, worth millions of credits per ton. If Oberlindes Lines captures 100 tons of such cargo from Tukera during a legal trade war, and if the cargo was owned by Tukera , then Oberlindes could get legal ownership of the cargo. As long as Oberlindes keeps possession of the cargo, Tukera can legally steal it back, but if Oberlindes sells it to someone, Tukera cannot steal it from the new owner because the cargo was legally Oberlindes property, which they could sell, and Tukera is not at trade war with the new owner.
A common problem with captured property is the captors stealing some of it before the Prize Court ever sees it. Kegs of wine would be declared "leaking" or bales of silk would be "destroyed by fire" or some other excuse. Now imagine an unscrupulous Oberlindes privateer who declares an entire Mod/2 computer in the cargo as "destroyed during capture". This Mod/2 eventually winds up in the PC's ship during a refit. Legally, that computer belong to Tukera, and if the megacorp ever finds out, what will it do?
In a trade war situation I imagine the 3rd Imperium keeps a close eye upon the combatants, to ensure that the violence is restricted to only the actual factions involved (which allows for trouble enough, given the way that ownership of corporations and property can be hidden).
I'm thinking about property of one corporation that is legitimately seized by another in a proper trade war. Presumably the 3rd Imperium has legal mechanisms to allow that property to become the legal property of the seizing corporation. Historically this was a "Prize Court" where the paperwork, witnesses, etc., would be examined and ownership decided. BTW, Prize Courts were famous for slow, and corrupt, work. If the Court decided that the capture was "good prize" the captor would get full and legal ownership of the prize.
So imagine a cargo of computers, worth millions of credits per ton. If Oberlindes Lines captures 100 tons of such cargo from Tukera during a legal trade war, and if the cargo was owned by Tukera , then Oberlindes could get legal ownership of the cargo. As long as Oberlindes keeps possession of the cargo, Tukera can legally steal it back, but if Oberlindes sells it to someone, Tukera cannot steal it from the new owner because the cargo was legally Oberlindes property, which they could sell, and Tukera is not at trade war with the new owner.
A common problem with captured property is the captors stealing some of it before the Prize Court ever sees it. Kegs of wine would be declared "leaking" or bales of silk would be "destroyed by fire" or some other excuse. Now imagine an unscrupulous Oberlindes privateer who declares an entire Mod/2 computer in the cargo as "destroyed during capture". This Mod/2 eventually winds up in the PC's ship during a refit. Legally, that computer belong to Tukera, and if the megacorp ever finds out, what will it do?
