Moved from the Topic "Odd Starports"
Hans,
I promised you an in-depth response and here it is:
QUESTION: “What is the difference between a world with a Class A starport where the government can get ships built, and a world with a Class E starport where the government can get ships built?”
Starting with “What is a star port?”, the above quote makes it clear that Starports are “essential to interstellar trade and commerce” and “will be accompanied by naval or scout bases”. Starports are commercial rather than military in function, since military ‘bases’ are provided IN ADDITION to the starport. Note also that Starports are “extraterritorial, and not subject to local law”. The local government does not control the starport! The Imperial Government does.
This alone is enough to answer part of your question. The class of the starport has no bearing on the manufacture, repair or maintenance of the ships of the Planetary Navy because the Planetary Navy has no control over it. The Planetary Government and Navy must, therefore, operate and maintain one or more facilities, under Planetary control to build, repair and maintain their defense force.
While this explains the disconnect between Starport Type and the Planetary Navy reflected in the quote:
Note the list of functions which define starports:
1. Trade facilities (People and Goods travel from Starport to starport)
2. Survey Facilities
3. Fuel
4. Construction Yards
Note also that the referee “may elect to include other types of bases” (including defense establishments) reinforces our earlier conclusion about Planetary Navy bases being distinct and separate from Starports.
Let us briefly examine the above Starport definitions in terms of the earlier list of functions which define starports:
Trade and Survey Facilities – Not available at class X or class E, but available at class A through class D.
Fuel – Not available at class X or class E, but available at class A through class D. The addition of some facilities and some fuel are the defining traits that separates a class D from a class E starport. (Note that some sources and versions of Traveller allow for the availability of unrefined fuel at a class E starport – which makes sense to me since a even a simple lake qualifies as a source of unrefined fuel. That would leave only the ‘facilities’ as the defining trait that differentiates a class D from a class E starport.)
Construction Yards – Not available at class X, class E or class D starports. The addition of some “construction yard” (in the form of “Reasonable repair facilities”) appears to be the defining trait that elevates a class D starport to class C. The addition of full blown construction facilities for Non-Starships (MD but no JD) upgrades it to a class B starport, and construction facilities for Starships upgrades it to a class A starport.
Per the above quote, Class A and B starports HAVE shipyards. Since the Starport is both Commercial and Non-Local Government Controlled, it seems reasonable that this applies to the starport shipyard as well. The statement “The military procures vessels through these yards” could be interpreted to contradict the view of planetary Governments operating their own naval shipyards, or it could be interpreted to refer to “A subsector navy may procure ships at any shipyards within its borders. A planetary navy may procure ships at any shipyard within the borders of its subsector” and NOT “a planetary navy may construct ships on its planet, using local resources, even if a shipyard is not present.” [from HG, page 20]
I hope that this sufficiently covers the issue. YMMV![Smile :) :)](data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7)
Those rules sections don't say that having a shipyard makes it a class A starport. They say that a Class A starport has a shipyard. There's a difference, you know. And if you'll pardon me for sounding just a little exasperated, that's the point I've made three times already!
If what you said was true, governments would not be able to build starships on worlds with class B-E starports. But HG clearly and specifically states that they can. You even quoted that yourself!
So, once again, I ask:
"So what's the difference between a world with a Class A starport where the government can get ships built and a world with a Class E starport where the government can get ships built? It's obviously not that one has a shipyard and the other one hasn't."
Hans
Hans,
I promised you an in-depth response and here it is:
QUESTION: “What is the difference between a world with a Class A starport where the government can get ships built, and a world with a Class E starport where the government can get ships built?”
LBB3-pg4 said:Starport Type: Many worlds have starports, their presence being essential to interstellar trade and commerce. Each world must be checked for its starport type; throw two dice for each world in the subsector, and mark the world with the letter indicated on the system contents table.
The system contents table indicates one specific distribution of starports as a basis for starmapping. Just as the distribution of stars can be altered (as indicated in world occurrence), the referee is also free to create other starport distributions.
Starports are further described in the starport types table. In many cases, starports will be accompanied by naval or scout bases, and will have a wide range of facilities. In nearly all cases, a planet will consider that a starport is extraterritorial, and not subject to local law, but will also enforce strict entrance and exit controls.
Starting with “What is a star port?”, the above quote makes it clear that Starports are “essential to interstellar trade and commerce” and “will be accompanied by naval or scout bases”. Starports are commercial rather than military in function, since military ‘bases’ are provided IN ADDITION to the starport. Note also that Starports are “extraterritorial, and not subject to local law”. The local government does not control the starport! The Imperial Government does.
This alone is enough to answer part of your question. The class of the starport has no bearing on the manufacture, repair or maintenance of the ships of the Planetary Navy because the Planetary Navy has no control over it. The Planetary Government and Navy must, therefore, operate and maintain one or more facilities, under Planetary control to build, repair and maintain their defense force.
While this explains the disconnect between Starport Type and the Planetary Navy reflected in the quote:
It does not fully address what a starport is.LBB5-HG-pg20 said:The Imperial Navy may procure ships of up to tech level 15, although it also procures vessels at tech levels 10 through 14. A subsector navy may procure ships at any shipyards within its borders. A planetary navy may procure ships at any shipyard within the borders of its subsector; alternatively, a planetary navy may construct ships on its planet, using local resources, even if a shipyard is not present.
LBB2-pg4 said:Interstellar travel is priced on the basis of accommodations; prices cover a trip from starport to starport, encompassing one jump, regardless of length.
LBB3-pg8 said:Starport: The various starport types are intended to provide a variety of facilities for use in trade or survey missions. Starports provide fuel or construction yards.
Bases: The tables provide for scout and naval bases at some worlds. These bases serve as points for scout and naval veterans to renew acquaintances with old friends, to find potential patrons, and to scrounge or buy surplus equipment of use to them. The referee may elect to include other types of bases, perhaps army bases, merchant exploration or trade bases, and defense establishments.
Note the list of functions which define starports:
1. Trade facilities (People and Goods travel from Starport to starport)
2. Survey Facilities
3. Fuel
4. Construction Yards
Note also that the referee “may elect to include other types of bases” (including defense establishments) reinforces our earlier conclusion about Planetary Navy bases being distinct and separate from Starports.
LBB3-pg10 said:STARPORT TYPES
Type
Description
A
Excellent quality installation. Refined fuel available. Annual maintenance overhaul available. Shipyard capable of constructing starships and non-starships present. Naval base and/or scout base may be present.
B
Good quality installation. Refined fuel available. Annual maintenance overhaul available. Shipyard capable of constructing non-starships present. Naval base and/or scout base may be present.
C
Routine quality installation. Only unrefined fuel available. Reasonable repair facilities present. Scout base may be present.
D
Poor quality installation. Only unrefined fuel available. No repair or shipyard facilities present. Scout base may be present.
E
Frontier installation. Essentially a marked spot of bedrock with no fuel, facilities, or bases present.
X
No starport. No provision is made for any ship landings.
Let us briefly examine the above Starport definitions in terms of the earlier list of functions which define starports:
Trade and Survey Facilities – Not available at class X or class E, but available at class A through class D.
Fuel – Not available at class X or class E, but available at class A through class D. The addition of some facilities and some fuel are the defining traits that separates a class D from a class E starport. (Note that some sources and versions of Traveller allow for the availability of unrefined fuel at a class E starport – which makes sense to me since a even a simple lake qualifies as a source of unrefined fuel. That would leave only the ‘facilities’ as the defining trait that differentiates a class D from a class E starport.)
Construction Yards – Not available at class X, class E or class D starports. The addition of some “construction yard” (in the form of “Reasonable repair facilities”) appears to be the defining trait that elevates a class D starport to class C. The addition of full blown construction facilities for Non-Starships (MD but no JD) upgrades it to a class B starport, and construction facilities for Starships upgrades it to a class A starport.
LBB2-pg12 said:Space ships are constructed and sold at shipyards throughout the galaxy. Any class A starport has a shipyard which can build any kind of ship, including a starship with jump drives; any class B starport can build a small craft and ships which do not have jump drives. The military procures vessels through these yards, corporations buy their commercial vessels from these shipyards, and private individuals can purchase ships that they have designed through them as well. The major restriction on the purchase of ships is money.
Per the above quote, Class A and B starports HAVE shipyards. Since the Starport is both Commercial and Non-Local Government Controlled, it seems reasonable that this applies to the starport shipyard as well. The statement “The military procures vessels through these yards” could be interpreted to contradict the view of planetary Governments operating their own naval shipyards, or it could be interpreted to refer to “A subsector navy may procure ships at any shipyards within its borders. A planetary navy may procure ships at any shipyard within the borders of its subsector” and NOT “a planetary navy may construct ships on its planet, using local resources, even if a shipyard is not present.” [from HG, page 20]
I hope that this sufficiently covers the issue. YMMV
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