General Military ship tonnage versus polity size/affluence?

[Condottiere]

I'll give you an example in Traveller.

The Darrians are buying technological level fifteen starwarships from the Imperium.

With, presumably, all accompanying spacecraft systems, including weapons.

They do have set aside a specific area that is to remain empty.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

True, but the Kinunir was limited by LBB2.77 design rules.

It's a LBB5'79 design originally, just like the Gazelle.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

At 1800 tons displacement, you could have:

• 1x particle accelerator bay = 1 battery ("the big gun")
• 2x triple sandcaster turrets = 1 battery
• 2x triple beam laser turrets = 1 battery
• 2x dual fusion gun turrets = 1 battery
• 2x triple missile turrets = 1 battery

And that's your TL=12+ military frigate design (eligible for a nuclear dampener and a meson screen) that can do everything from "show the flag" to gunboat diplomacy.

You are not going to stuff all that into a TL12 ship together with some armour and jump drive/fuel.
Note that a 100 Dt PA bay will hit just as well as two missile turrets...

With J-2 and Ag-6 it's just 320 Dt over tonnage...

FN-A126BF2-451100-45803-0      MCr 2 809       1 800 Dton
bearing     1     111 1                           Crew=46
batteries   1     111 1                             TL=12
                    Cargo=0 Fuel=560,6 EP=200,6 Agility=6

Dual Occupancy                                   -  319     2 809
                                     USP    #      Dton      Cost
Hull, Streamlined   Custom             A          1 800        
Configuration       Needle/Wedge       1                      216
Scoops              Streamlined                                 2
Armour              4                  4            180       126
                                                               
Jump Drive                             2    1        54       216
Manoeuvre D                            6    1       306       153
Power Plant                           11    1       602     1 805
Fuel, #J, #weeks    J-2, 4 weeks            2       201        
Purifier                                    1        17         0
                                                               
Bridge                                      1        36         9
Computer            m/6fib             F    1        14        83
                                                               
Staterooms                                  4        16         2
Staterooms, Half                           42        84        11
                                                               
Cargo                                                          
Demountable Tanks   J-2                     1       360         0
                                                               
Bay                 Particle, 100 t    8    1       100        36
Triple Turret 2/bat Missile            3    1         2         5    2 turrets organised into 1 battery.
Triple Turret 2/bat Beam               4    1         2         6    2 turrets organised into 1 battery.
Double Turret 2/bat Fusion             5    1         4         8    2 turrets organised into 1 battery.
Triple Turret 2/bat Sand               5    1         2         2    2 mounts organised into 1 battery.
                                                               
Nuclear Damper                         1    1        50        50
Meson Screen                           1    1        90        80
                                                               
Nominal Cost        MCr 2 809,15         Sum:    -  319     2 809
Class Cost          MCr   589,92        Valid        ≥0        ≥0
Ship Cost           MCr 2 247,32

An armoured, low agility version is possible, but that makes the PA bay next to useless.
The low agility means the the size DM isn't all that important. You could just as well make it bigger and more resistant to PA spinals.

FN-A1225F2-C51100-45803-0      MCr 2 322       1 800 Dton
bearing     1     111 1                           Crew=41
batteries   1     111 1                             TL=12
                    Cargo=54 Fuel=452,6 EP=92,6 Agility=0

Dual Occupancy                                       54     2 322
                                     USP    #      Dton      Cost
Hull, Streamlined   Custom             A          1 800        
Configuration       Needle/Wedge       1                      216
Scoops              Streamlined                                 2
Armour              12                 C            468       702
                                                               
Jump Drive                             2    1        54       216
Manoeuvre D                            2    1        90        63
Power Plant                            5    1       278       833
Fuel, #J, #weeks    J-2, 4 weeks            2        93        
Purifier                                    1        14         0
                                                               
Bridge                                      1        36         9
Computer            m/6fib             F    1        14        83
                                                               
Staterooms                                  4        16         2
Staterooms, Half                           37        74         9
                                                               
Cargo                                                54        
Demountable Tanks   J-2                     1       360         0
                                                               
Bay                 Particle, 100 t    8    1       100        36
Triple Turret 2/bat Missile            3    1         2         5    2 turrets organised into 1 battery.
Triple Turret 2/bat Beam               4    1         2         6    2 turrets organised into 1 battery.
Double Turret 2/bat Fusion             5    1         4         8    2 turrets organised into 1 battery.
Triple Turret 2/bat Sand               5    1         2         2    2 mounts organised into 1 battery.
                                                               
Nuclear Damper                         1    1        50        50
Meson Screen                           1    1        90        80
                                                               
Nominal Cost        MCr 2 321,88         Sum:        54     2 322
Class Cost          MCr   487,59        Valid        ≥0        ≥0
Ship Cost           MCr 1 857,50

 

[AnotherDilbert]

But, countries constantly spend money on things they cannot afford.

For awhile, until the bill comes due...

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Still currently thinking that the 1000-1999 (hull code: A, which is the "biggest" -1DM to hit under LBB5.80) armed with a bay weapon (50 or 100 tons) and some turret batteries makes for a really decent military frigate that can be a threat to anything that's too small for a spinal mount.

Agreed, size A ships are good in LBB5'80. To make the most if the size DM to hit, combine it with high agility to make it really hard to hit. Still, they are vulnerable to large PA spinals (by size crits).

In great numbers they are a threat to anything, by scraping the weapons off the hull of larger ships.

In the end, only spinals can incapacitate or destroy ships (for the battle).

For small ships: At low tech missile turrets rule, at higher tech missile bays rule. That DM-6 for nukes on the surface damage table is too good to be ignored. And that makes dampers mandatory, of course.

 

[mike wightman]

A missile bay is a better choice for main weapon bay, better to hit even at short range than the PAW and no EP requirements.

 

[chipla]

IMTU I have a series of ships that Ling makes specifically for the extra-Imperial market. The ‘noble defender line’.

The ships are “semi-modular” in that each class has a basic design which includes a ‘customisable’ space (select from the options Ling gives you.) This allows client states and non-aligned (third galaxy?) planets to buy TL12 ships either on finance or more commonly on an asset to debt trade (Ling gets mining rights to your third continent for 100years you get a navy now).

I’m in the middle of making a brochure for my players to get a look at.