Post your MgT2 errata

[AnotherDilbert]

Right, So I agree that at TL 11+ A starship should be able to automate some tasks.

By RAW ships can be completely automated (HG, p64, Virtual Crew).

If we allow it, it certainly gives the advantage to the AI.

A skilled operator with support is better than an AI:
DM: +2 [skill] +1 [characteristic] +1 [expert] + 1 [augment] = +5, much better than the best an AI can achieve.

 

[rhialto]

I'm just highlighting the stuff that's obvious.


Lots of things just aren't even mentioned, other than in passing.

Poor writing.
Poor editing.
Poor play testing.

Thankfully I can resort to earlier editions to fill the gaps.

I feel sorry for the new guy who picks this up expecting to play it as is.

D

It's a shame, but this isn't unprecedented with Mongoose. There are usually some good ideas in there, but they are dwarfed by the rest.

 

[Grognard]

A skilled operator with support is better than an AI:
DM: +2 [skill] +1 [characteristic] +1 [expert] + 1 [augment] = +5, much better than the best an AI can achieve.

That is true.


I'm not saying ships cant be automated, I'm saying the rules to allow it are not written properly.

 

[Grognard]

That is true.


I'm not saying ships cant be automated, I'm saying the rules to allow it are not written properly.

HighGuard allows for Virtual Crew Pg64

At TL10 Cx5 and 1MCr for up to 5 positions covered at Skill/0.

But can the virtual crew make DEX based Pilot checks? Hmm....

Me thinks Mongoose writers need to add chapter just on computer and virtual crew.
And perhaps a little more thought put into it.

I mean, why cant I just get a virtual gunfighter? Then I don't need any combat skills....

More Handwavium.

 

[Grognard]

By RAW ships can be completely automated (HG, p64, Virtual Crew).



A skilled operator with support is better than an AI:
DM: +2 [skill] +1 [characteristic] +1 [expert] + 1 [augment] = +5, much better than the best an AI can achieve.

What I meant was an AI can use a program to make DEX checks where a character cannot. Why?

Both are computers. I assume the no DEX check for untrained is that the program just provides knowledge, it doesn't actually do anything, however a skilled character knows enough to use that knowledge to gain an edge.

An AI is neither of these. So why should an AI be treated different? I mean, it likely doesn't even have eyes and fingers to manipulate the controls.

I just find the whole thing poorly thought out and more poorly executed.

Simple fix: Computers running expert and AI software can only make INT and EDU based checks.

IN order for a computer to sub as a crewman, it must have manipulators, hence it becomes a robot, and would use rules for such. (DO we have rules for such??)

Virtual Crew should have a tonnage requirement to represent either robotic crew, or actuators and manipulators to allow the computer to manipulate ship systems as crew would.

Like a modern car, it can be modded to allow computer control, but doesn't come wit the standard actuators and interface. And virtual crew is likely illegal in civilized space lanes. I know in MTU they will be highly illegal.

 

[Fovean]

I've been imagining that virtual crew directly manipulate the computer commands which manipulate the actual controls. The human interface is after all just a way to tell the computer to do certain things. Holographic controls, for instance.

 

[Grognard]

I've been imagining that virtual crew directly manipulate the computer commands which manipulate the actual controls. The human interface is after all just a way to tell the computer to do certain things. Holographic controls, for instance.

I suppose that's fair....But then if that's the case why would a Pilot check even be DEX based at all?

Maybe the real solution is to make Pilot checks INT based.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

A human flies a craft with a stick and seat of the pants feeling (aided by computers), so DEX.

A computer controls the servos of control surfaces and throttle directly without moving any sticks, and without the benefit of human eye-hand coordination, so no DEX.

It's not entirely farfetched...

 

[Condottiere]

Reaction is programmed.

Seat of the pants is partially experience, intuition and luck.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

This looks more like a Grognard's homebrewed rules, rather than any kind of errata.

 

[Grognard]

A human flies a craft with a stick and seat of the pants feeling (aided by computers), so DEX.

A computer controls the servos of control surfaces and throttle directly without moving any sticks, and without the benefit of human eye-hand coordination, so no DEX.

It's not entirely farfetched...

Maybe for an airplane, not for a starship.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Maybe for an airplane, not for a starship.

I must confess I'm not entirely certain how 57th century starship controls work.

To make the most of human abilities we should use what humans are actually good at like visual pattern matching and eye-hand coordination.


The illustration of a typical bridge in SSOM, p35 shows a joystick at the pilots station. Presumably it is used to control the ship.

 

[AsenRG]

The illustration of a typical bridge in SSOM, p35 shows a joystick at the pilots station. Presumably it is used to control the ship.

Or the pilot just forgot it after using the ship's computer to play Mortal Kombat MDC!

 

[Grognard]

Just consider piloting a starship in Traveller.

The M Drives produce Thrust upwards of 6Gs.
There is no fuel to burn, so no reason not to do Full G burns all the way to midpoint, then decelerate to the destination. (its not star wars afterall)

That would seem to indicate very little actual maneuvering, as its difficult to move much travelling at those speeds.

Have you done the math to see what velocity a ship at 1G achieves in a few game turns?
vector based movement.

Most space travel is therefore in long, straight lines, or shallow parabolic curves.

Unless you are talking minute maneuvering for docking and landing, at partial Gs. In which case, there isn't much fine tuning.

A 1 G "Zig" to dodge a missile in a six minute combat round would move your ship a very long way. And a velocity of about 36,000m/s.

 

[Condottiere]

Depends on whether you're moving towards or away from the missile.

Because it is conceivable to outrun it.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Unless you are talking minute maneuvering for docking and landing, at partial Gs. In which case, there isn't much fine tuning.

Agreed. A minimum-time trajectory to another planet is easy to calculate and implement by the computer. We still need a pilot for control and extra-ordinary circumstances.

A 1 G "Zig" to dodge a missile in a six minute combat round would move your ship a very long way. And a velocity of about 36,000m/s.

36 km/s is 1 hour of acceleration. 6 minutes would take you 10 × (6×60)² / 2 = 648 km with a terminal velocity of 10 × 6 × 60 = 3.6 km/s.

But if you are evading you are unlikely to accelerate in a straight line, more likely you are erratically accelerating in different directions denying the enemy the ability to predict your position.

 

[Grognard]

Armor Benefit: 10,000 Cr.

The closest to 10k for armor is a TL10 vac suit for 11k.

The next closest to 10k is Cr1500 reflec.

So Why on earth is the limit 10k? May as well be 1500.

Double benefit for 25k can score a Vac suit or a Hostile Enviro suit.

The TL limit is pointless as well.

 

[Fovean]

Armor Benefit: 10,000 Cr.

SNIP

The TL limit is pointless as well.

I agree the material bennies are a little wonky. I allow players to choose the individual items based on their career history and subsector. If they can make good backstory with it, they get what they'd like, within reason of course.

 

[Grognard]

Military Academy Pg 15

Graduation Benefits:
Increase EDU by an additional +1.

There was no other EDU benefit, so this should just read "Increase EDU by +1"


I cant help but think that University is much better than MilCad (Navy in this example)

Easier to get into, more EDU increase, and a skill-1 and skill-2 upon graduation.
MilCad gets three military service Skills-1, and only a single EDU bump.

The only benefit is auto entry into a mil service career, where university only gives a +1 to qual.

so: University EDU to enroll, INT to graduate. +3 EDU Skill-1 and Skill-2
Milcad: Int to enroll SOC to graduate. +1 EDU, SKill-1, Skill-1, Skill-1

So first term of military service after Academy gets no skills....(cuz we already picked them up in MilCad). Have to hope for a promotion just to get a term 1 skill.

While, a University grad would get all of the service skills at -0 in addition to their Skill-1 and skill-2, and +3 EDU.

Think Ill go university from now on.


Oh... and why the general lack of positive DMs to enlist, qual, and survive in most careers?
I liked the old "bucking for promotion" and "Playing it safe" from CT :BB era.

Take a Positive DM on Survival, and penalty to Advancement..or vice versa.

Id like to see some stat or rank DMS to the survival check as well.

 

[khadaji2002]

I actually still allow the "play it safe" and "buck for promotion" IMTU. I'm using MgT1, so I allow up to +2 on either roll with the matching - to the other roll. I agree that was a nice feature of CT and stole it for PC generation in MgT.