Proto-Traveller

[mike wightman]

Aramis, I've put Corridor in there for a couple of reasons.
Firstly because it makes the Marches into more of a frontier, the Imperium has had 1100 years to expand and develop. If the SM are only a sector away then they'd be too developed - I want MTU Regina to be TL10 not TL12

Secondly, and related to the first, I want "islands" of Imperial control centred around the TL15 high pop worlds. The further you get from them then the less Imperial influence is felt - more of a frontier feel to it IMHO.

Finally, there's something about facing a gauntlet of Vargr corsairs if you want to make the trip to Core via a "less patrolled" route

 

[mike wightman]

Jeffr0, just to be on the safe side I'd delete the data and provide it by PM to anyone interested - although I've already "borrowed it", ahem...

 

[aramis]

THe "Imperium" needn't be 1100 years old; it could be counting the Vilani dates... and be only a few hundred years old...

And sup3 gives some dates for reaching the marches... the marches have been settled for over 500 years, since the frontier wars are referenced.

Sadly, it also says 120 parsecs from the original center of the imperium...

Looks like we do need core, and we need to move the "Original Center of the Imperium" towards the far right of the sector. (grumble...)

 

[aramis]

Another quick thought:

the Early imperium starts at Earth (puts the distance right), and dating starts then... But as it' starting to form, it absorbs the vilani Imperium... and then Sylea TAKES OVER as capital for economic reasons.

What y'all think?

(oh, and I havent' had achance to look at the PDF yet...)

 

[mike wightman]

We could just dump the history part of Supplement 3...

How about, setting wise, the Library data from Adventure 1 is the base, then we cherry pick from Adventures 2 and 3 for the bits we want.

Keep the LBB4&5 intro vision for what the Imperium is like , and then make up a new history for the Marches etc.

 

[aramis]

looking at the PDF:
Either 2318 or 2020: these two put J4 routes around.
- 2020: moves to 1323
- 2318: moves to 2417
all of 1821,1822,1921 : move to 2006, 1906, 1806 ) (to force routing through 1819, )
All of 2227, 2326,2327,2425: Mv to 2427,2527,2626,2726
1929 move to 2031
Remember, there ARE J6 ships at TL 9 in LBB2!!!

 

[robject]

J6 isn't really such a big deal -- because if there are J6 ships, then there are calibration points that allow greater-than J6 travel.

However, that doesn't mean we can't deliberately make things hard...

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by Aramis:
Remember, there ARE J6 ships at TL 9 in LBB2!!!

Oh, that's easy to fiddle!

You can take any technology, look back in time, and say Napoleon should have had minie ball, rifled muskets or Caesar should have had rudders, lanteen sails, and the compass or Ramses should have had steel and the electric telegraph. Knowing what we know now, it's easy to say they should have known it then.

Case in point; there is a thermodynamic trick involving two clay pots, water, and sand that acts like a 'fridge. It's used by medical missions in regions without electricity to keep vaccines and other drugs cool. You can build this 'fridge' at TL 0, but you don't know you can build this fridge until you reach ~TL 6 or 7 and you have no need to build this fridge until you reach ~TL 7 or 8.

LBB:2 is written at TL15. Looking back, TL15 knows how to build jump6 drives at TL9. However TL9 did not know how to build jump6 drives at all. In other words, LBB:2 is TL15 knowledge applied to components from lower TLs, just as our TL8 knowledge can build a TL0 fridge.


Have fun,
Bill

 

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by Aramis:
Remember, there ARE J6 ships at TL 9 in LBB2!!!

Only in first edition CT , and then only with drop tanks

In second edition CT it can't be done due to computer minimums and jump drives requiring a power plant.

I suppose that's another thing to decide for proto-Traveller - is it based on first or second edition of the rules?
Its rather important to know which drive potential table to use for building ships...

 

[aramis]

Lackey: If we're going with "No Post 1984 Canon", as seems the consensus, Calibration points don't exist... and Jumps to Deep space won't become canon until The Traveller Adventure, which is post 1984... and hence post atlas.

The Vilani article mentioned that the Vilani had been restricted to one main until they discovered Jump 2 (IE, developed the software). It's easy to build a 2J1 design. It wasn't canon until the March Harrier gets demountables specifically to make 2j1 through a deepspace hex.

In any case, the cost of fuel at a CP is rather absurd, and 2J4 is about all a CT design can squeeze; the 8 hex range is effectively a bar on all travel. J7 will squelch all but the most ardent explorer-for-the-sake-of-exploring civilians. J10 with J2 tankers at either end and a J2-J6-J2 mode is going to run fuel costs up KCr2 per ton minimum for both J2.

CP's are militarily useful, but are not commercially viable at the skin-of-your-teeth financials run by Book2&3 rules.

Larsen: There is TL15 in the setting as it's been described so far (at least 4 worlds in the Imperium). Due to the lettering drive system, once the knowledge is out that a stable unit of size F will do J6 with this piece of software, there is no reason they wouldn't be using it.

MY understanding was revealing the Imperium as it was seen by pre-HG rules, Adv 0-3, supps 3 & 10, maybe Sup 4, and Pre Atlas maps. ANd liberally using what data we may from mags and outsides at the time.

And a teaser from the OLD JG Ley...

TITANSTORM SUBSECTOR
The leading edge of the wave of recivilization, the Titanstorm Subsector has two major Naval Bases guarding the frontier. Imperial Policy in this Subsector has been to encourage industrial and technical development. Considerable interest in possible expansion to trailing has led to significant scout activity across the current Imperial Border. Favorable tariff regulations by the Sector Duke have stimulated trade activity, and increased the rate of technical and industrial advancement

That subsector has 17 worlds, 4 non imperial 13 imperial. Total pop is 1.4 Billion. Best pop is 9, tech C. Subsector G, I believe.

(I think I quoted as much as fair use allows for one post...)

D'yall thing we should ask JG for permission to electronically redo their sectors? Or has MWM got them already?

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by Aramis:
Larsen: There is TL15 in the setting as it's been described so far (at least 4 worlds in the Imperium). Due to the lettering drive system, once the knowledge is out that a stable unit of size F will do J6 with this piece of software, there is no reason they wouldn't be using it.

Aramis,

Exactly. That's what I was trying to say.

The Proto-Traveller Setting can have jump6 ships being built at TL9 because those worlds at TL15 have 'back engineered' jump6 for TL9 components. You needn't worry about any TL restrictions.


Have fun,
Bill

P.S. JG Ley sounds more and more interesting.

P.P.S. TTA has a 1984 copyright? I thought it was older like '80 or '81. My copy is in storage.

 

[The Oz]

If you go by strict Bk2(2nd ed.) shipbuilding rules, you can't put J-6 into anything less than an 800dton hull, and to do that you need size-X drives, and size-X drives can't be built until TL-15, according to the TL chart in Bk3(2nd ed.)

Now, you can get J-5 into a 400dton hull using size-K drives (available at TL-11) and you can get J-4 into a 200dton hull using size-D drives (available at TL-9).

 

[mike wightman]

There's still that pesky computer size restriction that gives a jump 3 limit for TL9, jump 4 at TL10, etc.
You can't have jump 6 until TL12 despite the drive potential because of the computer limitation.

All for second edition of course

 

[mike wightman]

And this one is for Mr.Cameron, The Traveller Adventure is copyright 1983.

By the way, when did Larsen E.Whipsnade disappear?

 

[robject]

And this one is for sector architects.

Send me [downport at comcast dot net] a textfile with a 32x40 map of dots, with which I can use as a mask for the Core sector. That way we can get the right shape for Core, then do our dabbling. There may be other Rift configurations that work better.

Also, I figure if you write moves in a standard notation I can automate that, as well. Something like OLD -> NEW and OLD -> gone

1234 -> 3214
1235 -> 3215
1236 -> gone

 

[mike wightman]

One other thing about deep space jumps - Adventure 1 LD gives the Battle of Two Suns occuring midway between Yres and Menorb.
Would both fleets have used maneuver drives to get one and a half light years from the nearest system?

 

[robject]

No way. They'd use "insystem" jumps, right? But then why precipitate out at that same point? Unless... unless...

Hmmm, I wonder what's at that midway point of sufficient mass that would make them both stop there for a big ol' scrap-fest, hmmm?

Hmmmmmmm....

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
By the way, when did Larsen E.Whipsnade disappear?

Sigg,

It's a long story but, as Fred Ramen's multi-part story on the TML explained, Ramen and Whipsnade are dead.

The name served a purpose in 2001 and on the TML. The name no longer serves a purpose in 2005 and on the TML, at JTAS, or at COTI.

I've been trying to shed it for some time but just realized (D'oh!) that you can change your display name here.


Have fun,
Bill

 

[Nellkyn]

Originally posted by lackey:
Hmmm, I wonder what's at that midway point of sufficient mass that would make them both stop there for a big ol' scrap-fest, hmmm?

Hmmmmmmm....

At work (away from Trav books) and only a hazy memory but was there not a Zhodani re-fuelling point there. Perhaps I'm mistaken but I do recall the Zhos being there as a jumping off point for an attack. I'll see if I can find more out when I get home tonight.

 

[clementk]

Originally posted by Aramis:
And a teaser from the OLD JG Ley...
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />TITANSTORM SUBSECTOR
<snip>

That subsector has 17 worlds, 4 non imperial 13 imperial. Total pop is 1.4 Billion. Best pop is 9, tech C. Subsector G, I believe.</font>[/QUOTE]I believe the Zhodani Base's Classic Galaxy map includes the JG sectors.

example:
Ley Sector main entry
Titanstorm subsector entry

There are links for general sector information (including source) and Galactic files as well.

HTH.