Purpose of Escorts
- Thread starter Jame
- Start date
Last modern world use of escorts I know of was destroyer escorts of merchant traffic during WWII to protect from u-boat attacks.
Escorts were very common during the Napoleonic wars to protect merchants from privateers. Both privateers and escorts were, as in Traveller, much smaller than ships of the line. A frigate was about as large as an escort got.
Escorts were very common during the Napoleonic wars to protect merchants from privateers. Both privateers and escorts were, as in Traveller, much smaller than ships of the line. A frigate was about as large as an escort got.
Ganidirsii O'Flynn
SOC-12
Escorts do just that, they escort more vulnerable vessels through dangerous waters. There are several kinds of escort tactics, depending on the threat. The tactics used by a destroyer picket at the Battle of Leyte Gulf would by nessessity be different that those of a corvette escorting convoys through the North Atlantic in WWII. As an aside, the last know use of a full convoy type system would probably have to be the British thrust at the Falklands during that war. I'll have to defer to the Brits in the building for the Operational title.
In the OTU, it is much the same thing. Comparatively few Gazelle-class ships escort battle fleets. They are more of an anti-piracy vessel. Even Vargr corsair bands would really slow up with a squadron of 6 or 8 of these bad boys come out of the gas giant. Battle Fleets would use Chrysanthemum-class or Midu Agashaam-class ships, with a Sloan-class as the escort command vessel.
Quick aside to Mythmere,
Don't forget that in the Napoleanic era, the frigate WAS the big-dog on the open sea. No other vessel matched the frigates manuverablity with it's firepower. That's a little different than the defininition nowadays of something smaller than a destroyer.
In the OTU, it is much the same thing. Comparatively few Gazelle-class ships escort battle fleets. They are more of an anti-piracy vessel. Even Vargr corsair bands would really slow up with a squadron of 6 or 8 of these bad boys come out of the gas giant. Battle Fleets would use Chrysanthemum-class or Midu Agashaam-class ships, with a Sloan-class as the escort command vessel.
Quick aside to Mythmere,
Don't forget that in the Napoleanic era, the frigate WAS the big-dog on the open sea. No other vessel matched the frigates manuverablity with it's firepower. That's a little different than the defininition nowadays of something smaller than a destroyer.
Napoleonic escorts would have been sloops and brigs, 200-500 tons ea, rather than 500-2000 ton frigates. Of course, at this time a Ship of the Line was only 2-4,000 tons.
USS Constitution (44 gun Frigate): 2000 tons
HMS Victory (100 gun Ship of the Line): 3500 tons
At that time a merchant ship would run 300-600 tons, with the big East India men running over 1000.
Hmm, that sounds a lot like CT before Book 5. Especially since there are about 2 wet-navy displacement tons for every Traveller dTon.
USS Constitution (44 gun Frigate): 2000 tons
HMS Victory (100 gun Ship of the Line): 3500 tons
At that time a merchant ship would run 300-600 tons, with the big East India men running over 1000.
Hmm, that sounds a lot like CT before Book 5. Especially since there are about 2 wet-navy displacement tons for every Traveller dTon.
It depends on what you mean by escorts.
In the most general terms, almost anything could be an escort for something else. Generally, the ship being escorted has the escorts to deal with whatever it can't/doesn't want to deal with directly and to provide operational flexibility.
For example, in a current carrier battle group, the carrier has escorts in the form of a guided missile cruiser, destroyers, frigates, and submarines partly in order to deal with submarine, surface, and air (missile) threats that it can't deal well directly.
In the Traveller universe, a mercenary cruiser could have two gazelles as escorts. At the same time, a huge dreadnought might have a whole flock of cruisers, destroyers, and Gazelles as escorts.
So, it depends on what you mean.
Ron
In the most general terms, almost anything could be an escort for something else. Generally, the ship being escorted has the escorts to deal with whatever it can't/doesn't want to deal with directly and to provide operational flexibility.
For example, in a current carrier battle group, the carrier has escorts in the form of a guided missile cruiser, destroyers, frigates, and submarines partly in order to deal with submarine, surface, and air (missile) threats that it can't deal well directly.
In the Traveller universe, a mercenary cruiser could have two gazelles as escorts. At the same time, a huge dreadnought might have a whole flock of cruisers, destroyers, and Gazelles as escorts.
So, it depends on what you mean.
Ron
Ganidirsii O'Flynn
SOC-12
As an aside, is anybody but me really looking forward to Pirates of the Caribbean and Master and Commander? For me, the Super Hero thing is being done, but I'm really lookin' forward to a kickass pirate flick!
Counting the days till Master and Commander!
My wife and I are still talking about who else might have been cast in those roles.
Gerard Depardieu would have been a great Aubry - only flaw being French, particular problem in this context.
THe guy who is professor Snape for Stephen. Who else? We had a lot. Dang, I can't remember.
My wife and I are still talking about who else might have been cast in those roles.
Gerard Depardieu would have been a great Aubry - only flaw being French, particular problem in this context.
THe guy who is professor Snape for Stephen. Who else? We had a lot. Dang, I can't remember.
Ran Targas
SOC-14 1K
The most important use for escorts is increasing sensor coverage!
Today's navies use small boys and aircraft to extend radar coverage beyond max range for a single unit. Two way datalinks allow the entire battlegroup to see the combined radar picture. The specific C&C capabilities are very impressive.
Traveller escorts would/should/could be used the same way, positioned several light minutes away, to allow the high value unit maximum reaction time to potential threats. Escorts also allow for long range scouting and multi-vector attacks.
Today's navies use small boys and aircraft to extend radar coverage beyond max range for a single unit. Two way datalinks allow the entire battlegroup to see the combined radar picture. The specific C&C capabilities are very impressive.
Traveller escorts would/should/could be used the same way, positioned several light minutes away, to allow the high value unit maximum reaction time to potential threats. Escorts also allow for long range scouting and multi-vector attacks.
Ran Targas
SOC-14 1K
Which would be much more important if there were a horizon in space, which places a limit on the spotting range of terrestrial sensors. Lacking a horizon, it's much more efficient to just put a great big sensor on major ships. </font>[/QUOTE]True, there is no horizon, but there is a speed limit! Info can only travel so fast and in space energy still dissipates. Extending a battle groups sensor footprint would still be a necessity.
I expect most starships would rely on passive sensors during normal underway operations, instead of powering up and broadcasting their position to anyone with a receiver. Additionally, a passive guidance missile could easily lock on to your sensor emissions at twice the distance you would be able to detect it at.
Passive info is bearing only as you can not judge the distance the signal has travelled. This is where escorts come in; bifocal is better than mono and the greater the distance between platforms, the better the resolution. The more accurate the course/speed of the object, the better the firing solution and the farther out the object can be engaged.
All in all, escorts are still cheap extensions of the HVU's sensors and weapons.
Ben W Bell
SOC-14 1K
I think technically an escort is a vessel whose function is to protect another. The US Aegis Class Cruiser is a prime example (a bit small to be a real cruiser but that's another issue), it's entire function is to provide missile and anti-air defense for the fleet, mainly protecting the carrier but they have also been used to cover land positions by sitting in a port nearby.
mad13142000
SOC-13
Prof Snape was played by
Alan Rickman
He was also the really cool bad guy from Die Hard 1...
Escorts also serve as scouting units. Before the age of radar, ships actually had to go out and look for baddies. The same would hold true IOTU because of the lack of FTC. In WW2 there were many small destroyer / frigates that were set up for the same function. They were the DDRs massing about 1500 tons and they have since become classified as frigates.
-MADDog
Alan Rickman
He was also the really cool bad guy from Die Hard 1...
Escorts also serve as scouting units. Before the age of radar, ships actually had to go out and look for baddies. The same would hold true IOTU because of the lack of FTC. In WW2 there were many small destroyer / frigates that were set up for the same function. They were the DDRs massing about 1500 tons and they have since become classified as frigates.
-MADDog
Ran Targas
SOC-14 1K
^ Concur wholeheartedly with MadDog and Ben, escorts provided defense in-depth as well as power projection without exposing your high value units to direct enemy fire.
BTW, the Aegis radar system has been employed on both cruiser (Ticonderoga) and destroyer hulls (Arleigh Burke). The phased array radar system has numerous advantages over conventional rotating radar systems but the quantum leap came in the target aquisition, recognition, tracking, and engagement software at its heart. The radar is actually too sensitive, picking up even birds. This would normally overwhelm the operators but the software is able to determine threat level automatically. The Aegis system is just part of an improved battle management system that provides unprecidented command and control capabilities.
In addition to providing battle group air defense, Aegis can also provide theatre ballistic missile defense if the appropriate software/hardware is installed.
BTW, the Aegis radar system has been employed on both cruiser (Ticonderoga) and destroyer hulls (Arleigh Burke). The phased array radar system has numerous advantages over conventional rotating radar systems but the quantum leap came in the target aquisition, recognition, tracking, and engagement software at its heart. The radar is actually too sensitive, picking up even birds. This would normally overwhelm the operators but the software is able to determine threat level automatically. The Aegis system is just part of an improved battle management system that provides unprecidented command and control capabilities.
In addition to providing battle group air defense, Aegis can also provide theatre ballistic missile defense if the appropriate software/hardware is installed.
The Oz
SOC-14 1K
I think of an "escort" as a ship intended to use its firepower and sensors to protect other ships from the enemy. Escorts are part of a formation and stay close to what they're escorting.
A "picket" is a ship intended to use its sensors to extend the sensor net of a formation of other ships. Pickets get way away from their formation and have to fend for themselves.
IMTU, ships that are "escorting" other ships can use their weapons to defend the ship being escorted. So an escort can fire lasers and sand to deal with enemy missiles and beams aimed at the protected ship. I do require the escort to stay close to the ship being escorted. I even allow escorts to use their nuclear dampers and meson screens to protect the escorted ship. Of course, this means those same defenses cannot be used to protect the escort itself. Escorts are often expected to sacrifice themselves to protect what they are escorting. In the Navy, we used to call our escorts "missile sponges" since that's what we expected to happen to them.
Escorts should have lots of batteries of lasers and sandcasters, a few missile turrets; and repulsors, a nuclear damper and meson screen if you can fit them in.
Pickets would be replaced by unmanned sensor drones in most cases. A formation of ships would have a shell of sensor drones out to scout for the enemy. I think manned picket ships would only be used if the place you want to watch is too far away for effective datalink to/from a drone.
Type S scout/couriers or Type T Patrol Corvettes make very nice, cheap pickets for star systems you want to watch from some central location. You keep your battlefleet at a central naval base and wait for the word from your pickets on just where the enemy moved. Then you jump him with everything!
Pickets like this should have a good jump capacity and good sensors (a high computer rating, basically). Stealth capability and endurance on station (wilderness refueling and cargo space for extra supplies) are bonuses.
A "picket" is a ship intended to use its sensors to extend the sensor net of a formation of other ships. Pickets get way away from their formation and have to fend for themselves.
IMTU, ships that are "escorting" other ships can use their weapons to defend the ship being escorted. So an escort can fire lasers and sand to deal with enemy missiles and beams aimed at the protected ship. I do require the escort to stay close to the ship being escorted. I even allow escorts to use their nuclear dampers and meson screens to protect the escorted ship. Of course, this means those same defenses cannot be used to protect the escort itself. Escorts are often expected to sacrifice themselves to protect what they are escorting. In the Navy, we used to call our escorts "missile sponges" since that's what we expected to happen to them.
Escorts should have lots of batteries of lasers and sandcasters, a few missile turrets; and repulsors, a nuclear damper and meson screen if you can fit them in.
Pickets would be replaced by unmanned sensor drones in most cases. A formation of ships would have a shell of sensor drones out to scout for the enemy. I think manned picket ships would only be used if the place you want to watch is too far away for effective datalink to/from a drone.
Type S scout/couriers or Type T Patrol Corvettes make very nice, cheap pickets for star systems you want to watch from some central location. You keep your battlefleet at a central naval base and wait for the word from your pickets on just where the enemy moved. Then you jump him with everything!
Pickets like this should have a good jump capacity and good sensors (a high computer rating, basically). Stealth capability and endurance on station (wilderness refueling and cargo space for extra supplies) are bonuses.
Tom Schoene
SOC-12
I think maybe folks are mirror-imaging contemporary naval practices a bit too much here, expecially in terms of escorts for warships.
The modern escort only dates to about 1900 and owes its existence to several classes of threats that capital ships could not counter but which could dispatch such ships in just a few shots -- specificaly torpedo boats, submarines, and aircraft.
Traveller has no analogues to any of these threats. Small ships cannot meaningfully threaten large batttleships, while the battleships can vaporize small warships with ease. Traveller design sequences and combat rules don't seem to allow for the existence of ships dedicated to shooting down enemy missiles (for example), and the potential for large numbers of point defense lasers, dampers, and heavy armor on large warships makes their value uncertain in any case.
Battleriders need some sort of screening force to cover a jump withdrawal, but these need to be fairly large ships to pose a significant threat to the enemy (the 5,000-ton PF Sloan fleet escort is probably near the minimum size for this role and a light cruiser is a lot better.)
Sensor pickets may be of some use, depending on the sensor rules used, but as has been noted, these are not really escorts.
Aside from those tasks, true small escorts in Traveller will be almost entirely commerce protectors.
The modern escort only dates to about 1900 and owes its existence to several classes of threats that capital ships could not counter but which could dispatch such ships in just a few shots -- specificaly torpedo boats, submarines, and aircraft.
Traveller has no analogues to any of these threats. Small ships cannot meaningfully threaten large batttleships, while the battleships can vaporize small warships with ease. Traveller design sequences and combat rules don't seem to allow for the existence of ships dedicated to shooting down enemy missiles (for example), and the potential for large numbers of point defense lasers, dampers, and heavy armor on large warships makes their value uncertain in any case.
Battleriders need some sort of screening force to cover a jump withdrawal, but these need to be fairly large ships to pose a significant threat to the enemy (the 5,000-ton PF Sloan fleet escort is probably near the minimum size for this role and a light cruiser is a lot better.)
Sensor pickets may be of some use, depending on the sensor rules used, but as has been noted, these are not really escorts.
Aside from those tasks, true small escorts in Traveller will be almost entirely commerce protectors.
Ganidirsii O'Flynn
SOC-12
Firstly, Welcome to WallyWorld Oz!
Back on topic, both Oz and Tom have essentially got point of escort duty. As some "Large Barge Drivers" (that's Naval Swab Jockeys to you) put it, everything is a screen for something bigger. Even carriers are screens... for US policy.
Back on topic, both Oz and Tom have essentially got point of escort duty. As some "Large Barge Drivers" (that's Naval Swab Jockeys to you) put it, everything is a screen for something bigger. Even carriers are screens... for US policy.
The Oz
SOC-14 1K
Thanks for the welcome.
I've not been here before (except as a lurker) but I've played Traveller since 1977 (yes, that means I started with the LBBs. I have a set of LBBs that's worn out from playing).
I'm also a veteran of US naval service and a long-time wargamer in all eras and genres.
I've not been here before (except as a lurker) but I've played Traveller since 1977 (yes, that means I started with the LBBs. I have a set of LBBs that's worn out from playing).
I'm also a veteran of US naval service and a long-time wargamer in all eras and genres.
