Purpose of Escorts
- Thread starter Jame
- Start date
Even checking the darkside of the planet will take a dozen escorts (to ensure coms links, that he escort does not get wiped out before a message is sent - that sort of stuff), but a real planet is much more complecated. You have to check the moons, behind orbiting space stations, on the surface for PAD batteries, deep meson gun sensor arrays etc.
And all the while the locals will be attempting to stop your escorts (PADM fire, escorts, fighters, SDBs, orbital guard stats etc.)
You also need lots of escorts to stop all these misc troublemakers getting at your rear (troop transports, tankers, ammo carriers, carriers). They are also needed to escort your troop landers, and provide close air support even engaging airplanes, ground forces etc in the atmosphere. Battelships are not designed to do this. You don't need a spinal mount or a bay weapon to shoot down a fighter jet. Also just line of sight limits how much one ship can cover.
I think you need a set of escorts for independent missions - anti-piracy, flag showing, customs inspection, long term surveillance. and another set to escort the fleet and do the above.
The gazelle, fiery, Kinuir and the Sidaki class (from Megatraveller Journel) are examples of the first type, whilst those depicted in that Challenge Article ships of the black war, or within fighting ships of the shattered imperium are of the second type.
Cheers
Richard
And all the while the locals will be attempting to stop your escorts (PADM fire, escorts, fighters, SDBs, orbital guard stats etc.)
You also need lots of escorts to stop all these misc troublemakers getting at your rear (troop transports, tankers, ammo carriers, carriers). They are also needed to escort your troop landers, and provide close air support even engaging airplanes, ground forces etc in the atmosphere. Battelships are not designed to do this. You don't need a spinal mount or a bay weapon to shoot down a fighter jet. Also just line of sight limits how much one ship can cover.
I think you need a set of escorts for independent missions - anti-piracy, flag showing, customs inspection, long term surveillance. and another set to escort the fleet and do the above.
The gazelle, fiery, Kinuir and the Sidaki class (from Megatraveller Journel) are examples of the first type, whilst those depicted in that Challenge Article ships of the black war, or within fighting ships of the shattered imperium are of the second type.
Cheers
Richard
Huh? Just how close to the planet do you think the escort needs to get? You can search a planet from outside weapons range. There are some very small blind spots with less than three escorts, but one escort, able to move moderately rapidly, will be sufficient unless the target is very mobile on the surface of the planet.
Ran Targas
SOC-14 1K
^ Unfortunately, LBB #2 doesn't leave much room for interpretation.
For military grade sensors:
- two light-seconds to detect ships under power in deep space
- one light-second if running silent in deep space
- 1/4 light-second for ships running silent in orbit.
This means one ship would have to make multiple sweeps to just detect an object in orbit of one planet.
Now meson cannon can't tag you at 600,000km, but what about lasers? It's only 2 seconds away; WW2 BB's hit targets further out than that.
Wouldn't it be nice to have some escorts out there to push back that detection range to a light-minute?
For military grade sensors:
- two light-seconds to detect ships under power in deep space
- one light-second if running silent in deep space
- 1/4 light-second for ships running silent in orbit.
This means one ship would have to make multiple sweeps to just detect an object in orbit of one planet.
Now meson cannon can't tag you at 600,000km, but what about lasers? It's only 2 seconds away; WW2 BB's hit targets further out than that.
Wouldn't it be nice to have some escorts out there to push back that detection range to a light-minute?
Ran Targas
SOC-14 1K
^ Well then, what is it? Are we playing a game with unrealistic, constrictive rules or are we extending military and technological conventions into a possible future?
These same rules allow for the construction of massive ships-of-the-line that are, for all intents and purposes, impossible to damage by lesser ships and somehow don't bankrupt a planetary economy to build or maintain.
I agree totally that the CT sensor rules are B.S. Active sensors rely on reflected energy, the more energy you put out, the more comes back, and the longer you wait, the further you can see. Today's mil radars, for example, have self-imposed max ranges based on refresh frequency, otherwise the electronics get confused. Future passive sensors would be incredibly sensitive and should be able to detect red/blue shifts across a solar system, basically doppler lidar.
Read "The Mote in God's Eye" for the model I use IMTU but then again you might not want to because it also doesn't allow nuke dampeners and BGG's with infinite capacities or for fleets of unstoppable juggernauts.
These same rules allow for the construction of massive ships-of-the-line that are, for all intents and purposes, impossible to damage by lesser ships and somehow don't bankrupt a planetary economy to build or maintain.
I agree totally that the CT sensor rules are B.S. Active sensors rely on reflected energy, the more energy you put out, the more comes back, and the longer you wait, the further you can see. Today's mil radars, for example, have self-imposed max ranges based on refresh frequency, otherwise the electronics get confused. Future passive sensors would be incredibly sensitive and should be able to detect red/blue shifts across a solar system, basically doppler lidar.
Read "The Mote in God's Eye" for the model I use IMTU but then again you might not want to because it also doesn't allow nuke dampeners and BGG's with infinite capacities or for fleets of unstoppable juggernauts.
The Oz
SOC-14 1K
Jame posted:
The ships listed as Destroyer Escorts, Destroyers, or Fleet Escorts in Supplement 9 Fighting Ships.
The description of Escorts as one of the five main types of ships in the fleet, also in Supp. 9.
The description of the term "High Guard" implies escorts, although it does not explicitly mention them.
The rules for the games "Imperium" and "Fifth Frontier War" both mention that the escorts are rolled into the strengths of the battle/cruiser/assault squadron counters.
Just off the top of my head:
The ships listed as Destroyer Escorts, Destroyers, or Fleet Escorts in Supplement 9 Fighting Ships.
The description of Escorts as one of the five main types of ships in the fleet, also in Supp. 9.
The description of the term "High Guard" implies escorts, although it does not explicitly mention them.
The rules for the games "Imperium" and "Fifth Frontier War" both mention that the escorts are rolled into the strengths of the battle/cruiser/assault squadron counters.
Anthony
How many escorts to check the darkside of a planet.
I would send 4 pairs of escorts round the cardinal points to make sure I didn't miss anything, or it did not get past the escorts, or simply move away from them. With a pair of escorts at least one should survive the ecounter long enough to send a report.
You may need to send a follow up escort behind each pair to ensure line of sight comms.
It also depends what you are looking for. If you are looking for a large battleship in orbit, it should be easy to spot, but if you are looking for concealed SDB pens, submerged meson subs, the entrances to fighter launch tubes etc, this will require a slower flyby, especially if the target is camoflauged with high tech ECM. And the slower the escort goes, the more likely it is to be shot down.
Cheers
Richard
How many escorts to check the darkside of a planet.
I would send 4 pairs of escorts round the cardinal points to make sure I didn't miss anything, or it did not get past the escorts, or simply move away from them. With a pair of escorts at least one should survive the ecounter long enough to send a report.
You may need to send a follow up escort behind each pair to ensure line of sight comms.
It also depends what you are looking for. If you are looking for a large battleship in orbit, it should be easy to spot, but if you are looking for concealed SDB pens, submerged meson subs, the entrances to fighter launch tubes etc, this will require a slower flyby, especially if the target is camoflauged with high tech ECM. And the slower the escort goes, the more likely it is to be shot down.
Cheers
Richard
The Oz
SOC-14 1K
Try these:
Traveller Library Data-Escorts
Republic of New Home - Escorts
This page gives the number of escorts found in a typical Imperial fleet.Imperial 214th Fleet
How's that?
Traveller Library Data-Escorts
Republic of New Home - Escorts
This page gives the number of escorts found in a typical Imperial fleet.Imperial 214th Fleet
How's that?
One more question. What do escorts do in a combat fleet, in deep space, and what do they do in a fleet in combat?
Just to be clear here, an "escort" here is the 1,500 to 10,000 DE to DD. The presumption is that they are ships in a fleet with larger ships, and are heading off to face other ships.
Just to be clear here, an "escort" here is the 1,500 to 10,000 DE to DD. The presumption is that they are ships in a fleet with larger ships, and are heading off to face other ships.
The Oz
SOC-14 1K
Jame asked:
If a fleet was in deep space and not expecting enemy contact (in peacetime or far behind the lines in wartime) I think a few escorts (smaller ones, 400 tons to about 1000 tons) would be deployed as pickets (more for the practice than anything else) while the rest would be in close formation with the main body of the fleet. The fleet might be conducting some kind of exercise which could result in some detached formations. Any detachment would probably have some escorts assigned, unless there was a particular reason why not.
A fleet in wartime, moving in deep space and expecting/worrying about enemy contact, would have many pickets out, perhaps even multiple shells of pickets, if they have enough units. Remote sensor drones (if available IYTU) would be used heavily for these picket shells. Escorts would either be part of the pickets or kept in close to thicken up the point-blank sensor net.
In battle, according to strict Book 2/High Guard, escorts just fight like everyone else. In High Guard the only ships escorts have a decent chance of hurting are other escorts and really small stuff like fighters. Depending on the house rules IYTU escorts might be able to assist the defense of bigger ships (this is how it works IMTU: escorts can use their weapons to defend some other ship, but only if they stay close to their charges).
Traveller fleets aren't often found in deep space (which I interpret as being far enough away from any planets, stars, etc., that they don't have any effect on sensor coverage, maneuver, etc.).
If a fleet was in deep space and not expecting enemy contact (in peacetime or far behind the lines in wartime) I think a few escorts (smaller ones, 400 tons to about 1000 tons) would be deployed as pickets (more for the practice than anything else) while the rest would be in close formation with the main body of the fleet. The fleet might be conducting some kind of exercise which could result in some detached formations. Any detachment would probably have some escorts assigned, unless there was a particular reason why not.
A fleet in wartime, moving in deep space and expecting/worrying about enemy contact, would have many pickets out, perhaps even multiple shells of pickets, if they have enough units. Remote sensor drones (if available IYTU) would be used heavily for these picket shells. Escorts would either be part of the pickets or kept in close to thicken up the point-blank sensor net.
In battle, according to strict Book 2/High Guard, escorts just fight like everyone else. In High Guard the only ships escorts have a decent chance of hurting are other escorts and really small stuff like fighters. Depending on the house rules IYTU escorts might be able to assist the defense of bigger ships (this is how it works IMTU: escorts can use their weapons to defend some other ship, but only if they stay close to their charges).
Which IMTU implies that they're not officially part of the Imperial Navy (including the duke's own Colonial reserves), but rather mercs hired by local worlds to suppress piracy.
I remember lots of discussion on the TML about the feasibility of piracy, which was actually a discussion about the size and deployment of the Imperial Navy in disguise. In the end, each of us had to decide on how pervasive the Navy was in YTU.
More to the topic, though: Gazelles are way too small for the front lines, and can't escort big 'ol dreadnoughts. Perhaps that job is better left for the 5000-dton critters... what are they called?
Father Fletch
SOC-12
Sillies, everyone knows that Escorts are there to keep player groups in line! Even that overpowered and overequipped group with the Happy Fun Ball of Death have to respect the Authoro-I of a flight of Gazelles! 
In battle they could do the same things like they would do in normal life. As meson guns do a lot of damage it follows that the most important thing would be finding without being found. One thing they could do is call shots like an artillery observer.
Also the fleet train must be protected. A fleet would likely have a large convoy of supply craft with it. If these are destroyed, the fleet will have to go back to port.It would be out of the war and be a long time returning.
Also the fleet train must be protected. A fleet would likely have a large convoy of supply craft with it. If these are destroyed, the fleet will have to go back to port.It would be out of the war and be a long time returning.
jchurchill
SOC-12
Happy Fun Ball
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I had one of those as a kid. Great toy until it overheated and we had to throw it down the street.
it obliterated two neighbors' houses.
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I had one of those as a kid. Great toy until it overheated and we had to throw it down the street.
it obliterated two neighbors' houses.
Ran Targas
SOC-14 1K
^ Don't tell me, you taunted it, didn't you?
