Revising the expanded CharGen System

[Golan2072]

Originally posted by WJP:
Why not more, or less, or a number based on a roll (like EDU or less on 2D) ... or even a roll on the homeworld table in place of a skill earned the normal way?

You mean, one skill by default, and you get another if you roll your EDU or less on 2D? I like that.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />8) After chargen, you get ONE skill, ANY skill you want to "round up" your character, as long as:

Not sure why, but this one isn't sittin' well with me.</font>[/QUOTE]
This is intended to allow players to "fill in blanks" in their Character's skillset after they decide on his background. It also covers hobbies and so on that don't fit in the career table.

 

[Golan2072]

Originally posted by WJP:
Why not more, or less, or a number based on a roll (like EDU or less on 2D) ... or even a roll on the homeworld table in place of a skill earned the normal way?

You mean, one skill by default, and you get another if you roll your EDU or less on 2D? I like that.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />8) After chargen, you get ONE skill, ANY skill you want to "round up" your character, as long as:

Not sure why, but this one isn't sittin' well with me.</font>[/QUOTE]
This is intended to allow players to "fill in blanks" in their Character's skillset after they decide on his background. It also covers hobbies and so on that don't fit in the career table.

 

[Berg]

Originally posted by WJP:
Also, you may consider the "Old Age Experience" roll I have. If/when a character rolls on the Ageing table, the gets to roll again on the aging table for a skill.

For example, a character turns 34 and rolls 8+ for STR, 7+ for DEX, and 8+ for END.

No matter the outcome, that character is aging and with age comes wisdom and experience. The character gets three rolls for skills, and the rolls are twice at 8+ and once at 7+. Success on any of these rolls give a skill

I like this one

Although some players may "sacrifice" stats for skills in the process...

 

[Berg]

Originally posted by WJP:
Also, you may consider the "Old Age Experience" roll I have. If/when a character rolls on the Ageing table, the gets to roll again on the aging table for a skill.

For example, a character turns 34 and rolls 8+ for STR, 7+ for DEX, and 8+ for END.

No matter the outcome, that character is aging and with age comes wisdom and experience. The character gets three rolls for skills, and the rolls are twice at 8+ and once at 7+. Success on any of these rolls give a skill

I like this one

Although some players may "sacrifice" stats for skills in the process...

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Employee 2-4601:

Originally posted by WJP:
[qb]You mean, one skill by default, and you get another if you roll your EDU or less on 2D? I like that.

Nope. Check my chargen rules that you're hosting. A character gets a number of background skills equal to his roll: 2D for EDU or less.

If a character has EDU-8, and he rolls a 5, then get gets 3 background skills (typically, this will be Level-0 skills since they start at Level-0 and the character has to roll them on a table).

If the EDU-8 character rolls a 10, then get gets no background skills.

I make the Background skills table up based on the character's homeworld (TL, LL, Atmosphere, Trade Codes all are used to guide creation of the Background Skills table).

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Employee 2-4601:

Originally posted by WJP:
[qb]You mean, one skill by default, and you get another if you roll your EDU or less on 2D? I like that.

Nope. Check my chargen rules that you're hosting. A character gets a number of background skills equal to his roll: 2D for EDU or less.

If a character has EDU-8, and he rolls a 5, then get gets 3 background skills (typically, this will be Level-0 skills since they start at Level-0 and the character has to roll them on a table).

If the EDU-8 character rolls a 10, then get gets no background skills.

I make the Background skills table up based on the character's homeworld (TL, LL, Atmosphere, Trade Codes all are used to guide creation of the Background Skills table).

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Berg:
I like this one

Although some players may "sacrifice" stats for skills in the process...

I've noticed that. Not a good plan, but I've seen a character roll fairly decent with his stats, go a term too long to get those three extra rolls.

I waver on this rule. Right now, it's in. I figure the stat-hit is worth it. But, I may pull it one of these days.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Berg:
I like this one

Although some players may "sacrifice" stats for skills in the process...

I've noticed that. Not a good plan, but I've seen a character roll fairly decent with his stats, go a term too long to get those three extra rolls.

I waver on this rule. Right now, it's in. I figure the stat-hit is worth it. But, I may pull it one of these days.

 

[MaineCoon]

Originally posted by Employee 2-4601:
Your words fall on very fertile ground. as you know, I've been leaning lately (especially due to gaming and conversation with my girlfriend) towards a more rule-light, flavor-first approach for CT; so I might go in your direction.

I'm not a killer GM, but I don't intend to fudge the rolls if players screw up. I dont want them to look forward to a D20-style character creation session.

I propose a compromise.
We'll make an upgraded basic CharGen system, with 4 skill-tables per term plus one Special Duty roll per specific year, allowing you to roll on a table of special duties (including OCS). We'll make a joint skill list, a joint overall CharGen procedure, and then split the Careers between the two of us and do this as a joint venture. We'll also combine this with my Pre-Enlistment and Homeworld skills systems.

I've been researching some alternatives to flavor it to my exact tastes, but your work has definitely been the foundation. This is still research at this point, but I'm so busy with work I haven't had a lot of time to look at it. I'm keeping the rolls the same as what you have except for the morphing of Commission into Special Assignment; I'll run the math on multiple special duty rolls and see about droping the roll for bonus skill. I'm also working on a layout in Word for the career sheets. I'd love to add artwork to them too, but I'm not an artist, and we're talking a good 15 or so pictures, one for each career. I love the T20 career pictures, something in that style would be great...

 

[MaineCoon]

Originally posted by Employee 2-4601:
Your words fall on very fertile ground. as you know, I've been leaning lately (especially due to gaming and conversation with my girlfriend) towards a more rule-light, flavor-first approach for CT; so I might go in your direction.

I'm not a killer GM, but I don't intend to fudge the rolls if players screw up. I dont want them to look forward to a D20-style character creation session.

I propose a compromise.
We'll make an upgraded basic CharGen system, with 4 skill-tables per term plus one Special Duty roll per specific year, allowing you to roll on a table of special duties (including OCS). We'll make a joint skill list, a joint overall CharGen procedure, and then split the Careers between the two of us and do this as a joint venture. We'll also combine this with my Pre-Enlistment and Homeworld skills systems.

I've been researching some alternatives to flavor it to my exact tastes, but your work has definitely been the foundation. This is still research at this point, but I'm so busy with work I haven't had a lot of time to look at it. I'm keeping the rolls the same as what you have except for the morphing of Commission into Special Assignment; I'll run the math on multiple special duty rolls and see about droping the roll for bonus skill. I'm also working on a layout in Word for the career sheets. I'd love to add artwork to them too, but I'm not an artist, and we're talking a good 15 or so pictures, one for each career. I love the T20 career pictures, something in that style would be great...

 

[Golan2072]

Originally posted by MaineCoon:
I'm not a killer GM, but I don't intend to fudge the rolls if players screw up. I dont want them to look forward to a D20-style character creation session.

Exactly. I did not mean fudging the rolls if the player screws up, but light rules that serve the story and not the other way around. And CT-style chargen, ofcourse - D20 chargen could be very annoying and encourages min-maxing.

I'm keeping the rolls the same as what you have except for the morphing of Commission into Special Assignment; I'll run the math on multiple special duty rolls and see about droping the roll for bonus skill.

Or replacing the roll for the Bonus Skill by a Special Duty table which includes OCS...

I'm also working on a layout in Word for the career sheets. I'd love to add artwork to them too, but I'm not an artist, and we're talking a good 15 or so pictures, one for each career. I love the T20 career pictures, something in that style would be great...

We could leave pictures for a later time (when we'll locate an artist willing to do this for cheap/free) or just have a service symbol instead; anyway, I was thinking about one career per page, including EVERYTHING (enlistment, reenlistment, term throws, skills, special duties, mustering out, aging, etc) to reduce page-flipping.

 

[Golan2072]

Originally posted by MaineCoon:
I'm not a killer GM, but I don't intend to fudge the rolls if players screw up. I dont want them to look forward to a D20-style character creation session.

Exactly. I did not mean fudging the rolls if the player screws up, but light rules that serve the story and not the other way around. And CT-style chargen, ofcourse - D20 chargen could be very annoying and encourages min-maxing.

I'm keeping the rolls the same as what you have except for the morphing of Commission into Special Assignment; I'll run the math on multiple special duty rolls and see about droping the roll for bonus skill.

Or replacing the roll for the Bonus Skill by a Special Duty table which includes OCS...

I'm also working on a layout in Word for the career sheets. I'd love to add artwork to them too, but I'm not an artist, and we're talking a good 15 or so pictures, one for each career. I love the T20 career pictures, something in that style would be great...

We could leave pictures for a later time (when we'll locate an artist willing to do this for cheap/free) or just have a service symbol instead; anyway, I was thinking about one career per page, including EVERYTHING (enlistment, reenlistment, term throws, skills, special duties, mustering out, aging, etc) to reduce page-flipping.

 

[Plankowner]

Originally posted by Employee 2-4601:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />8) After chargen, you get ONE skill, ANY skill you want to "round up" your character, as long as:

Not sure why, but this one isn't sittin' well with me.</font>[/QUOTE]
This is intended to allow players to "fill in blanks" in their Character's skillset after they decide on his background. It also covers hobbies and so on that don't fit in the career table. </font>[/QUOTE]I like this rule. I remember rolling up a character and REALLY wanting a particular skill for her. Never did roll it, drove me crazy and I hated the character from then on. Allowing me to pick that skill when it was all said and done would have made me a happy player. But, I was 16, so what did I know. BUT, since this happened over 20 years ago and I can still remeber it tells you something about how upset I got. Sometimes, you have a vision of a character and the rolls just don't line up very well. This is a good fix for that one.

 

[Plankowner]

Originally posted by Employee 2-4601:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />8) After chargen, you get ONE skill, ANY skill you want to "round up" your character, as long as:

Not sure why, but this one isn't sittin' well with me.</font>[/QUOTE]
This is intended to allow players to "fill in blanks" in their Character's skillset after they decide on his background. It also covers hobbies and so on that don't fit in the career table. </font>[/QUOTE]I like this rule. I remember rolling up a character and REALLY wanting a particular skill for her. Never did roll it, drove me crazy and I hated the character from then on. Allowing me to pick that skill when it was all said and done would have made me a happy player. But, I was 16, so what did I know. BUT, since this happened over 20 years ago and I can still remeber it tells you something about how upset I got. Sometimes, you have a vision of a character and the rolls just don't line up very well. This is a good fix for that one.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Plankowner:
Sometimes, you have a vision of a character and the rolls just don't line up very well. This is a good fix for that one.

I don't think I'd allow something like that in my game.

I've got a buddy who wants to be a novelist. He writes and writes and writes, but he hasn't been published yet.

He's still rolling on the table, but he's not rolling the result he needs.

Life is like that.

If it were my campaign, and a player realy wanted a skill that he didn't get in CharGen, I'd make it part of the campaign. There are Experience rules in CT (something I've been thinking of tweaking a bit). CT characters can learn new skills after CharGen.

I'd work the player's desire into the game--maybe even into the plot if it were the "right" desired skill. Then, boom, I'd have built-in motivation to take the story in a direction I wanted it to go.

I'd try to turn that one player's desire into something really cool that he'll remember 20 years down the road. "Hey, remember that time I rolled up that character who I wanted to be a pilot, and in the game we got hooked up with those dudes who said they would train me? But, remember what they did..."

Years ago, back when I though R.A. Salvatore was a good writer (we're talking 19 years old here), I read on of his Icewind Dale books that featured a party of D&D characters going around a town looking for a map. That's all it was. A simple map.

I always thought that was a good lesson for a GM. You can make a cool adventure on just something like the party trying to obtain something simple like a map....or even a character trying to get a training as a Pilot...

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Plankowner:
Sometimes, you have a vision of a character and the rolls just don't line up very well. This is a good fix for that one.

I don't think I'd allow something like that in my game.

I've got a buddy who wants to be a novelist. He writes and writes and writes, but he hasn't been published yet.

He's still rolling on the table, but he's not rolling the result he needs.

Life is like that.

If it were my campaign, and a player realy wanted a skill that he didn't get in CharGen, I'd make it part of the campaign. There are Experience rules in CT (something I've been thinking of tweaking a bit). CT characters can learn new skills after CharGen.

I'd work the player's desire into the game--maybe even into the plot if it were the "right" desired skill. Then, boom, I'd have built-in motivation to take the story in a direction I wanted it to go.

I'd try to turn that one player's desire into something really cool that he'll remember 20 years down the road. "Hey, remember that time I rolled up that character who I wanted to be a pilot, and in the game we got hooked up with those dudes who said they would train me? But, remember what they did..."

Years ago, back when I though R.A. Salvatore was a good writer (we're talking 19 years old here), I read on of his Icewind Dale books that featured a party of D&D characters going around a town looking for a map. That's all it was. A simple map.

I always thought that was a good lesson for a GM. You can make a cool adventure on just something like the party trying to obtain something simple like a map....or even a character trying to get a training as a Pilot...

 

[MaineCoon]

Originally posted by WJP:

I've got a buddy who wants to be a novelist. He writes and writes and writes, but he hasn't been published yet.

He's still rolling on the table, but he's not rolling the result he needs.

Sounds like he has the Writing-1, just hasn't made his career enlistment roll!

This is a good "optional" rule (and when it comes to house rules, what isn't optional?). I am still playing with it's use - I definitely require it to be a rational, explainable choice in the character's background.

Consider a real life example - I'm 26 years old and a software engineer (Career skill - Computers-3 or so).

Hometown skill: I grew up in Wisconsin. I've had experience with real rifles (hunting) and after I moved to California, I've done some airsoft combat (tactical military simulation - mostly mountainous and forest terrain with some urban assault). That might give me Combat Rifleman-0 or -1.

Hometown skill: I have driven both cars and a minivan plenty of times in southern california traffic, as well as Wisconsin's erratic and extreme weather. Wheeled Vehicle (Automatic Transmission)-1

Free -1 skill unrelated to anything else: I've flown a helicopter, and considered continued training after the introductory lesson, which I COULD afford and manage in my spare time to get my private license. With that training I could be Helicopters-1 in about a year of some spare time training.

Of course, maybe a person should give up a Benefits roll to get that free skill... helicopter training would probably set me back about $12k if I wanted to proceed.

 

[MaineCoon]

Originally posted by WJP:

I've got a buddy who wants to be a novelist. He writes and writes and writes, but he hasn't been published yet.

He's still rolling on the table, but he's not rolling the result he needs.

Sounds like he has the Writing-1, just hasn't made his career enlistment roll!

This is a good "optional" rule (and when it comes to house rules, what isn't optional?). I am still playing with it's use - I definitely require it to be a rational, explainable choice in the character's background.

Consider a real life example - I'm 26 years old and a software engineer (Career skill - Computers-3 or so).

Hometown skill: I grew up in Wisconsin. I've had experience with real rifles (hunting) and after I moved to California, I've done some airsoft combat (tactical military simulation - mostly mountainous and forest terrain with some urban assault). That might give me Combat Rifleman-0 or -1.

Hometown skill: I have driven both cars and a minivan plenty of times in southern california traffic, as well as Wisconsin's erratic and extreme weather. Wheeled Vehicle (Automatic Transmission)-1

Free -1 skill unrelated to anything else: I've flown a helicopter, and considered continued training after the introductory lesson, which I COULD afford and manage in my spare time to get my private license. With that training I could be Helicopters-1 in about a year of some spare time training.

Of course, maybe a person should give up a Benefits roll to get that free skill... helicopter training would probably set me back about $12k if I wanted to proceed.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by MaineCoon:
Free -1 skill unrelated to anything else: I've flown a helicopter, and considered continued training after the introductory lesson, which I COULD afford and manage in my spare time to get my private license. With that training I could be Helicopters-1 in about a year of some spare time training.

I guess we're looking at this differently. I would say that you have the opportunity to roll on the table that includes the helicopter skill, you just haven't rolled that result yet.

This rule just wouldn't fly in my game, but to each his own. I'm sure there's stuff I do that other GMs wouldn't care for.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by MaineCoon:
Free -1 skill unrelated to anything else: I've flown a helicopter, and considered continued training after the introductory lesson, which I COULD afford and manage in my spare time to get my private license. With that training I could be Helicopters-1 in about a year of some spare time training.

I guess we're looking at this differently. I would say that you have the opportunity to roll on the table that includes the helicopter skill, you just haven't rolled that result yet.

This rule just wouldn't fly in my game, but to each his own. I'm sure there's stuff I do that other GMs wouldn't care for.