Saving T5 or How to make an old Traveller actually accept and like T5?

[robject]

I’d like to see some OTU source material for T5. [Julian Wars] [Another iteration of the Spinward Marches] [Spinward Marches during its earlier years] [Psionic Suppressions]

And the T5BBB indicates that all eras are opened up for development.

Think about how The Traveller Book introduced Regina ca. 1105, and how many pages it took.

NOW think about what a minimally useful overview would need.

• Overview
• Library data (things the PCs should know)
• Adapting T5 Careers.
• Equipment guidelines (including ships)
• Encounters.
• Short adventures.

 

[Spaceresearcher]

Why do you think you can't mention other game systems on this forum? That's ludicrous. I mention other game systems all the time, and so do the mods and other forum members.

Heck, a few posts up-thread, I mention the Top Secret/SI task system.

Received an infraction for mentioning another game.

 

[Spaceresearcher]

And the T5BBB indicates that all eras are opened up for development.

Think about how The Traveller Book introduced Regina ca. 1105, and how many pages it took.

NOW think about what a minimally useful overview would need.

• Overview
• Library data (things the PCs should know)
• Adapting T5 Careers.
• Equipment guidelines (including ships)
• Encounters.
• Short adventures.

Agreed. Again, the DVD of a filmed game session would also do wonders to help win people over to the system.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Agreed. Again, the DVD of a filmed game session would also do wonders to help win people over to the system.

Erm, how would it help? One guy administers the adventure, the rest of the people actually play the game.

Are there some "rule specific" aspects that need a DVD?

 

[Supplement Four]

Received an infraction for mentioning another game.

That's incredible. Are you sure the infraction wasn't for something else?

 

[Ulsyus]

And the T5BBB indicates that all eras are opened up for development.

Think about how The Traveller Book introduced Regina ca. 1105, and how many pages it took.

NOW think about what a minimally useful overview would need.

• Overview
• Library data (things the PCs should know)
• Adapting T5 Careers.
• Equipment guidelines (including ships)
• Encounters.
• Short adventures.

I just had a look at The Traveller Book - that's only one page for the Regina subsector map, one page of info with most of it taken up with UPP data, then five pages of library data.

A summary of any milieu would have to involve a bit about the transplantation of humans, the rise of the Vilani and the Ziru Sirka, the Interstellar Wars, Second Imperium, Long Night, Third Imperium (cut this off guys at the bit where you want to run your game - have it written in chunks so people could just stop where they wanted to). That's not a little bit of info, but a series of concise but expanding summaries/narratives are possible.

The short adventures is the tricky bit. It would be handy to have a couple for different types of groups: merchants in a Free/Far/Fat Trader, crew without a ship (think the early FASA High Passage scenarios), specialist merc/security team (because signing on to a merc unit would, if there was to be any bearing whatsoever on what was feasible in that setting would likely see the team separated eventually, except for situations similar to what was seen with private contractors in the Middle East), crew with a ship (Scout/Courier?) contracting out to govts or corporations (which should stress them financially: the lowest bidder who meets the KSC[?!?] generally gets the contract...), group of nobles undertaking tasks for someone of standing in the subsector/sector government (effectively troubleshooting security contractors with family connections).

Who to write these for? I've just done a scenario for my group introducing new characters. It was a situating and foundation session, so they were prodded in a couple of directions by ducks with machine guns, but it set them up for the next series of scenarios and got them equipped for the campaign. This wouldn't be a good adventure for brand new players (are there any out there these days??) or a group that wants to trade down the Spinward Main.

So would the adventures need to get generically vanilla, have a series for different groups, or (the one with the highest scenario-writing art) written so that different types of groups could all have their interests intersected in the scenario giving them the motivation to be involved while still having the underlying plot remain constant & thus reducing the info & library data required to support the thing?

 

[Spaceresearcher]

Erm, how would it help? One guy administers the adventure, the rest of the people actually play the game.

Are there some "rule specific" aspects that need a DVD?

To give a definite example of 'how it's actually played'. That would show everyone how the rules are supposed to be used within a gaming context which is an issue for some players out there including myself on a lot of the T5 game system.

 

[Blue Ghost]

To give a definite example of 'how it's actually played'. That would show everyone how the rules are supposed to be used within a gaming context which is an issue for some players out there including myself on a lot of the T5 game system.

I'm somewhat perplexed by this. I've never believed that the "Examples of Play" in any RPG are adequate, and need to be right up front, but it seems like players who have an interest have been exposed to the format.

I think the personal combat system is adequately explained, however there are some rules' shortcomings that need clarification.

If you twist my arm about it, I prefer the old two action system, or, better yet, Action Points. But that's just me showing my rust.

 

[Supplement Four]

If you twist my arm about it, I prefer the old two action system, or, better yet, Action Points. But that's just me showing my rust.

Actions Points seem a very slow way to go, to me. I've heard that people enjoy those types of systems, but it's hard for me to think that the energy of the combat is expressed adequately when using Action Points.

I see an Action Point game as something that turns an exciting roleplaying game into a more "game" focused game where players are more concerned about how many points they've spent rather than living in the moment of the firefight.

 

[Ulsyus]

Actions Points seem a very slow way to go, to me. I've heard that people enjoy those types of systems, but it's hard for me to think that the energy of the combat is expressed adequately when using Action Points.

I see an Action Point game as something that turns an exciting roleplaying game into a more "game" focused game where players are more concerned about how many points they've spent rather than living in the moment of the firefight.

I agree that while a system using action points can make combat clearer mechanically, this is a really good point about it taking the focus away from the action actually occurring.

I was pretty pleased to see the Immediate Action reference on p139 - this is what we train troops and police to do in a variety of situations, and I thought it offered a real sense of hastiness (another nice element in the difficulties table on p130). That stuff is what people are faced with every day then there's little time to think in an incident, or when they're trying to think and plan ahead while engaging in some sort of activity at the same time.

Trying to keep this short: we should keep combat short, 'cause it mostly is, and that better reflects it in a game. If it goes on for a long time, it's generally a series of incidents linked by pauses or breaks of varying lengths.

 

[Enoff]

My opinion is that if you want to get new players interesting in T5 and are worried about this website then maybe there needs to be some money investing in upgrading it and making it more professional. I like it but it looks like a fan's hack of a website. Online gaming is the "in" thing with virtual tabletops etc. Invest in the ability for people to seamlessly play T5 online on this website.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Actions Points seem a very slow way to go, to me. I've heard that people enjoy those types of systems, but it's hard for me to think that the energy of the combat is expressed adequately when using Action Points.

I see an Action Point game as something that turns an exciting roleplaying game into a more "game" focused game where players are more concerned about how many points they've spent rather than living in the moment of the firefight.

I disagree. I think it keeps the game a game as opposed to a psychological exercise of "I do this!" or "What would happen if this happened" kind of thing.

APs also help define the narrative. You can go back and look at what each player did and had time for.

I'll reread STAMP about hastiness.

 

[Supplement Four]

I disagree. I think it keeps the game a game as opposed to a psychological exercise of "I do this!" or "What would happen if this happened" kind of thing.

I believe that's just what I said. Action Points focus a player on playing a "game", fussing with the points, rather than roleplaying and experiencing the moment as if the player where in the character's own skin.

I'm not saying that APs are a bad way to go. I'm sure it can be quite fun. What I am saying that APs make combat encounters more of a strategy/tactics, chess-like game rather than living roleplaying experience. APs are more, "OK, I'll spend X amount of points for movement, three to aim and shoot, and leave in reserve 4 points for reactive actions," where as a roleplaying experience is more like this, "Your back is up to the wall. Those Zhodani bas-ta-dards are out there somewhere. You know that officer with them is probing for you. He could be in your head right now. Sweat rolls down your cheek as you slowing peek around the corner....".

 

[Blue Ghost]

Ehh...I think you can have the best of both worlds. Look at the HERO system. That game is about as heavily mechanical as you can get. You've got an impulse system like SFB and Car Wars, you got points to define your character and buy abilities, you got activation rolls for powers and defenses that may or may not work, but in actuality it's an RPG.

When you get into abstract game play, then are you really playing a game?

I was going to re-read STAMP...in a few hours.

 

[Ulsyus]

Ehh...I think you can have the best of both worlds. Look at the HERO system. That game is about as heavily mechanical as you can get. You've got an impulse system like SFB and Car Wars, you got points to define your character and buy abilities, you got activation rolls for powers and defenses that may or may not work, but in actuality it's an RPG.

That's great for players who know a system well, but what does this sort of complex mechanical system do to encourage people new to a game to give it a go? Or am I kidding myself thinking that Traveller attracts new players?

 

[aramis]

That's great for players who know a system well, but what does this sort of complex mechanical system do to encourage people new to a game to give it a go? Or am I kidding myself thinking that Traveller attracts new players?

Traveller tends to not be attracting as many "raw newbs" anymore, but still gets enough to warrant it.

The "raw newbs" are tending to be doing Star Wars (FFG version), D&D, Pathfinder, or Dragon Age. Why?


I suspect its that...

1. They're in big box stores (Target, Toys-Я-Us, Barnes & Noble)
2. They have beginner boxed sets
3. • Star Wars and Dragon Age are fairly well known licensed properties
   • D&D has years of Name Recognition
   • Pathfinder has tons of players already (and is developing the name recognition)

ASoiF is garnering momentum due to the license for Game of Thrones, but it's not getting all that many raw newbs from what I can tell.

TOR lacks a beginner box, but the Tolkien reference draws a few.

It still seems like non-RPGers expect games to come in boxes.

 

[Blue Ghost]

That's great for players who know a system well, but what does this sort of complex mechanical system do to encourage people new to a game to give it a go? Or am I kidding myself thinking that Traveller attracts new players?

Well, my point there being that Champions (which started here in San Mateo, FWIW) is the premier "superhero" game, and is now branched out into other areas last I checked. And, you don't have to do superhero stuff with it, but fantasy, western, crime, espionage, what not. It's a "GURPS" like system in that it's malleable for other genres, but is heavy on dice.

I liked CT for it's structured play, and, thankfully, for a war gaming bent that still kept an abstract setting of spaceships, guns and heroics. I think the game has lost that edge.

It is Saturday afternoon, and I barely see a handful of posts when there should be a flurry of activity. I sometimes feel like I'm the only one posting anywhere, when years back I barely made a post a week, if that. There were a bunch of other people here locking horns and hashing out rules and stories of gaming sessions.

Now that T5 is out you'd think this whole BBS would be jumping for joy, and old grognards would be flocking back to see, complain, praise, b__ch, whine, jump for joy, or otherwise vent good and bad about Traveller. But none of that's happening.

My point is that I personally think that Traveller, as an RPG, won't benefit from "abstractism" if there's no interest in the first place. And I think a lot of the interest generated umpteen years ago was created by the fact that there was a structure to play, and that it was set ostensibly in a semi-open ended sci-fi setting.

What I see now is a highly (non-optional) setting, another readjustment of new rules, and a seemingly shrinking fan base. But, for all that, I'm still with it. I grew up with the thing. It's a hobby. I'm sorry people have lost interest, and new blood is not coming in, and I've stated why, but I'm hoping it'll turn around.

Time to go clean house...really, my real house is a mess. will check back later.

 

[mike wightman]

Over at rpg.net Traveller still gets a lot of recommendations as the go to system for science fiction gaming.

The free stuff is often mentioned - CT Starter edition and the Liftoff play test rules - after that MgT.

Considering the interest in old school gaming I think a cleaned up re-issue of the CT boxed set would have made more of an impact than T5.

Someone soon is going to take the MgT SRD and the T20 SRD and produce a Pathfinder version of Traveller - if Marc has any sense it will be him backing it.

 

[Blue Ghost]

I think a T5 Starter Edition would help keep the game thriving.

 

[David Johansen]

I don't know. I'm tired of waiting for Traveller to step up. Traveller is awesome. It is one of my favorite things. But it strikes me as a long string of failures and missed opportunities. A fan base should be an asset not a liability for pete's sake.

Mongoose Traveller sticks in my craw for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that Mongoose was a miniatures manufacturer at one point. I wish we could see the type of support Star Ship Troopers or Battlefield Evolution got for Traveller.

I think Traveller could be great but somehow it never quite rises to the occasion. It makes me sad that T5 is turning into another disappointment. It has so much potential but it stalled at the gates and seems unlikely to ever regain that momentum.