Scout Beret

[Blue Ghost]

I think the beret (in the US) was worn by Army special forces prior to the 90s, and the USAF guards. I'm no expert, but that's my recollection.

Historically, if we go back to late renaissance, the beret was worn by a variety of regular guards and soldiers. And that's why I was thinking maybe the scouts had some kind of special "non-military" beret.

Interestingly enough I have a camo beret that I bought years ago with an exaggerated drape that from the Danish military. I always figured your military had the kind of beret seen on the Mega Traveller Referee's screen

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Thanks Officer!

[m;]Just a quick note that a side discussion with political leanings was moved to avoid tempting others into infraction territory.[/m;]

Notice how I started a new thread, like I said, in the Pit.

So, back on topic, I am gathering that I am a minority in putting my Scouts in a uniform? Why then do your Scouts not have uniforms? For reasons that might border the aforementioned Infraction, see my thread in the Pit. Though I suspect most it has some much more OTU basis I have just missed.

 

[rancke]

I am gathering that I am a minority in putting my Scouts in a uniform? Why then do your Scouts not have uniforms?

As I implied in an earlier post, my Scouts do have uniforms. They just use them as little as they can get away with.


Hans

 

[atpollard]

So, back on topic, I am gathering that I am a minority in putting my Scouts in a uniform? Why then do your Scouts not have uniforms? For reasons that might border the aforementioned Infraction, see my thread in the Pit. Though I suspect most it has some much more OTU basis I have just missed.

For me, the iconic mental image of a 'Scout' is a single lone pilot in a 100 dTon scout ship far from any Scout Base.
There seems little point in a strictly enforced code for uniforms under those conditions.
Think of it like a sniper, there is far less reason for a sniper deployed in the field to have a prescribed uniform, than say the MP at a military base.
Would a distinct uniform help or hinder a scout attempting to gather updated data on a world's TL, LL, or Gov?

Now, a scout stationed on an X-boat Tender or as part of the maintenance crew or quartermaster corps of a scout base, probably would have a dress code, since a uniform would help build esprit-de-corps and encourage proper discipline.

Those with a personal bend towards order and structure would probably gravitate towards the Navy (and proudly wear their Navy Uniform).
Those drawn to the adventure of a lone scout in his ship, would probably have an individualist spirit, focused more on results than conformity.

YMMV, but those are my thoughts.

[PS. This is one of the things that I dislike about the Classic Era Imperium ... the lack of an unexplored frontier that would actually need a real Scout rather than just a member of the Imperial Mail and Survey Corps.
Who wants to play a retired Mailman? Yeah, like that's the stuff of legends. ]

 

[Blue Ghost]

*much snippage*

[PS. This is one of the things that I dislike about the Classic Era Imperium ... the lack of an unexplored frontier that would actually need a real Scout rather than just a member of the Imperial Mail and Survey Corps.
Who wants to play a retired Mailman? Yeah, like that's the stuff of legends. ]

.... you never met a dog while delivering mail :smirk:

I wonder if Vargr attack X-boats for the sake of it.

Yeah, the Imperium is kind of boxed in, but there's a few frontiers out there. I think scouts conscripted by the navy might wear a duty or combat uniform, or don some special "I'm part of the navy for now" thingy.

 

[aramis]

The way I figure it...
Scouts are generally going to have everything they own in a B4 bag. If not in it, then strapped to it.

The courier crews are not usually one man. They're usually two man or even three man crews: every scout is trained in pilot, but you still need a navigator and an engineer, and most are not skilled enough to do both. (Noting that the way any service population works long term, you always have more low-skilled folk than high-skilled.) So, essentially 3 guys. On scouting duty, add a dedicated sensor-op guy. And they have a lot of interaction with the public. So, in N-Space, uniforms - the TL14 Tailored Vacc Suit in Blue-gray of DGP canon. In jump, or on habitable world walkabout, near identical coveralls (Combat Environment Suit or simple clothing, depending upon individual and mission). Only in jump or on leave do they break out the civvies.

And X-boats - they need an engineer, too. So, again, often going to be two man crews. Lots of guys never learn engineering... or do so only to a "follow the checklist" level (Skill: Engineering—0).

But in jump, lots of guys will wear whatever is comfortable. PJ's, islander shirts, just their undies, or even nothing. On the other hand, most will wear their vacc suit anyway, simply because it's become their second skin. (IMTU, as a house rule, any scout, and any 2+ term Imp Marine or Imp Navy who didn't fail reenlist, and any TL14-15 COACC/Flyer who didn't fail reenlist, they get a TL14 tailored vacc suit for free, but not the PLSS, hard helmet, etc. Just the suit, soft helmet, and gloves.)

 

[rancke]

I wonder if Vargr attack X-boats for the sake of it.

Vargr corsairs, you mean? Sure, whenever they come across an X-boat that isn't floating next to an X-boat tender under the guns of assorted system defenses. Which is to say, practically never.


Hans

 

[Reban]

Historically, if we go back to late renaissance, the beret was worn by a variety of regular guards and soldiers. And that's why I was thinking maybe the scouts had some kind of special "non-military" beret.

I'm getting it hard to call to mind a non-military beret other than the French and Basque berets. But I get what you're saying, a beret that goes with the job rather than denoting a military elite function.

So, back on topic, I am gathering that I am a minority in putting my Scouts in a uniform? Why then do your Scouts not have uniforms? For reasons that might border the aforementioned Infraction, see my thread in the Pit. Though I suspect most it has some much more OTU basis I have just missed.

IMTU Scouts are a uniformed service of the Imperium with tan jumpsuits similar to the image I linked to earlier. In peacetime they come under different departments of the Imperial Civil Service (in fact almost every department has its own paramilitary unit). Generally Scouts are a bit "odd", working long stretches in small units (solo scouts are detached duty scouts not active ones) so they develop their own quirks, often expressed through what they wear.

In time of war they come under the command of the Imperial Military. The Imperial Navy uses them as pathfinders and the Imperial Army assigns them as Corps of Guides Infantry or Cavalry. Both services realize that when it comes to Scouts they have to strike a balance between the regulations and their irregular nature. Think Rogers Rangers, Indian Scouts, Civilian translators, Cutural Advisers etc.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Aramis; that's some pretty hoopy thinking there.

I figured that on the fringe, or out beyond the client states, where the Imperium might have colonies, scouts would be a bit more casual. Kind of like war time pilots prior to the 1960s wearing ten gallon Stetsons, cowboy boots and other stuff that adorns their official uniform.

And then you have dudes who who've got the scout patch sewn onto their "lucky suit" or favorite jacket. You might even have some high strung types (or delusional) who wear armor with a sidearm, or real casual scouts who are t-shirts and shorts kind of folks while on the fringe and unsettled areas, probably outside Imperial space.

I can see breaking out the civilian clothing when visiting some far flung colony.

 

[aramis]

I'm getting it hard to call to mind a non-military beret other than the French and Basque berets. But I get what you're saying, a beret that goes with the job rather than denoting a military elite function.

Scots and Irish Tams/Balmorals are pretty much berets. Except they have a pompom on the top.

 

[rancke]

I'm getting it hard to call to mind a non-military beret other than the French and Basque berets.

Here's a Wikipedia article about para-military and non-military organizations that wear or have worn berets. The Girl Scouts of America have worn green berets.

Lots of civilians that doesn't belong to any organization use berets too. It's almost a uniform of certain intellectuals.


Hans

 

[Blue Ghost]

... Girl Scouts are elite troops for the US Army?

(with many apologies to former US Army Travellers; all meant in jest)

 

[rancke]

... Girl Scouts are elite troops for the US Army?

The article does mention that members of rival military units have, on occasion, mentioned it to members of the United States Army Special Forces.


Hans

 

[McPerth]

I'm getting it hard to call to mind a non-military beret other than the French and Basque berets.

It's quite a usual headgear in most rural Spain (where it's called boina). It's a little smaller tan the tipical Basque or French one (called chapela).

 

[Reban]

Here's a Wikipedia article about para-military and non-military organizations that wear or have worn berets. The Girl Scouts of America have worn green berets.

Lots of civilians that doesn't belong to any organization use berets too. It's almost a uniform of certain intellectuals.

Hans

Okay, but the original intent of scouting and cadet groups was to prepare boys for military service. The police forces listed have a paramilitary or gendarmarie origin. The Pathfinders and Guardian Angels are new to me but both seem to draw on the respective police and scout traditions on berets. All to my mind have a "military" origin even the marching bands.

Good point on the intellectual beret, that was one I forgot.

It's quite a usual headgear in most rural Spain (where it's called boina). It's a little smaller tan the tipical Basque or French one (called chapela).

Oh of course, I've seen those and forgotten them.

 

[Blue Ghost]

I'm getting it hard to call to mind a non-military beret other than the French and Basque berets. But I get what you're saying, a beret that goes with the job rather than denoting a military elite function. *snip*

Yeah, I remember boy scouts sporting the red beret years back, but it was a little different looking. But that's part of where I got the idea from, and I guess subconsciously that's kind of what went through my mind when I saw Dietrick's colored illustration on the MT Referee's Screen.

I figured that guy to be a scout because he had long hair and a handlebar moustache, wasn't wearing a uniform, and, but who else, out on the fringes of semi-explored space, would dress like that and wield a firearm, but a scout? I imagined the story with that pic was a scout who was fighting off some ravenous beast that was charging his ship's cargo bay ramp, or perhaps the natives weren't pleased with the trinkets the local subsector nobles told his team of scouts to woo the natives with to get mineral rights (a treasure chest of mirrors, shiny beads and Etch-a-sketch pads do not a King's ransom make).

Or, it could be something else. But he struck me as a scout of somekind, though we really don't know who or what he is. But, it got it into my skull that a beret, a-la the Danish military, might be cool for some scouts

Like I said in an earlier post, I have one of these, but it's camo. I think they look kind of cool, and scout-ish.

 

[Zutroi]

Aboard ship (or when occasion calls for uniforms and hats), my IISS crews wear either a beret or a garrison cap, something that can get either jammed under a vac suit's bubble helmet or tucked into a pocket if the need arises...

 

[Reban]

So I Google imaged the MT Referee's Screen to see what Blue Ghost was talking about.

The Scout is wearing a tan or cream jacket with pockets, elasticated cuffs and padding over which he has a blue flack jacket. The beret is interesting. Its the same tan or cream color as the jacket so they are obviously parts of a uniform. It's big and floppy and warm looking and has an insignia device over the right eye. I can't make out any detail except that it has a bend dexter or a sloping line to the right.

The headband is about an inch thick, but the interesting thing is there looks to be a seam in the crown which might make it more of a stocking cap, but its probably a badly drawn crease.

Overall impression from a uniformology point of view is that this guy's uniform is cold weather gear. The tan/cream and blue to me are snowy/cold mountain colors and the floppy beret or stocking cap are vaguely Alpine. The other figure, a female has a tabard in the same cream/tan with yellow accents. Not enough information really except to say that this Scout operates in cold climates.

 

[rancke]

Aboard ship (or when occasion calls for uniforms and hats), my IISS crews wear either a beret or a garrison cap, something that can get either jammed under a vac suit's bubble helmet or tucked into a pocket if the need arises...

A skullcap would work too. And it would be less "21st Century military in Space", which may or may not be considered a plus.


Hans

 

[McPerth]

One thing I think we must take into account when talking about the Scouts uniform when in mission but outside their ships is that (IMHO) in many mision there will be no uniform at all, as their mission would involve to blend with the people in the planet they are in, so adapting their clothing to it, even if some insigina is worn (not talking about secret missions here).

In peace times, Scouts are not military, and most of their missoins are quite people friendly (keep census, UWP stats, communications, etc), and that can be better accomplished by adapting their clothing style with that of the locals not to create perceived barriers.

While Imperial military units may even seek those barriers (to distinguish themselves from the local military and remember locals of the Imperial might), the scouts might well want the opposite, to be seen as friendly as posible and remind people Imperium is also friendly and gives civilian services too.