Setting up new colony
- Thread starter rancke
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Peter Schutze
SOC-12
>I imagine you could get some electricity within a single generation
depending on exactly what was brought and the neccessity I would expect any colony aiming to stay above middle ages tech to start implementing point-of-use electricity generation in the first year
lots of TL5-8 tech manufacturing is lots easier when you have electricity - especially the metals and chemicals industries
Depending on their level of prior preparation ie mineral specific surveys, there shouldnt be a big issue creating useful but not 20th C urbanisation scale renewable electricity.
one small accessible deposit of rare earths or magnetite should give enough magnets for a couple of gigawatts of windpower for example even if it has to be extracted by manual labour
depending on exactly what was brought and the neccessity I would expect any colony aiming to stay above middle ages tech to start implementing point-of-use electricity generation in the first year
lots of TL5-8 tech manufacturing is lots easier when you have electricity - especially the metals and chemicals industries
Depending on their level of prior preparation ie mineral specific surveys, there shouldnt be a big issue creating useful but not 20th C urbanisation scale renewable electricity.
one small accessible deposit of rare earths or magnetite should give enough magnets for a couple of gigawatts of windpower for example even if it has to be extracted by manual labour
mobile type press at first ..then later it will be used to create the plates for a hand powered offset printer..note they wont be doing much printing till they have a solid source of textiles to make paper with after they have covered basic needs like clothing...
Quite. Just, having the information available would be one of the most important things.
Which brings up a possibility. What if a planet is found to have lapsed into a primitive state while the information kept in that computer as described is dominated by a secretive guild of "Techno-mages"?
Xerxeskingofking
SOC-13
been done before in litrature, is quite fun. classic example is in Foundation, where the foundation rules surrounding space by using a cult of techology.
the fun thing is that while the reglious angle preserves the knowledge, it also stops reschearch, as that would be questioning divine script! so, you get a medieval stasis effect, to borrow a troupe, where the techology does not improve for centuries.
Not really my favorite plotline, actually, but it works for those who are into that sort of thing. It is common enough, and can be done reasonably well by an author with the knack for it. In any case the idea was fairly obviously connected to the situation of the colony where the main source of information was a computer cannibalized from their ship.
How much power does the computer need to be operated?
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Xerxeskingofking
SOC-13
depends, obivously. memory storage methods can change the power requirements quite a bit (as modern flash memory doesn't need a high speed motor to turn the magnetic plate), as does processing power
a high tech, low model computer a computer built to last could well run off batteies or a suitable small power scouce (like say a geothemal tap for many, many, many years. their are still orignal 60's mainframes kicking about and working, mostly in museams
I think that was the Subject of The Difference Engine by gibson and Sterling.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Difference_Engine
R
Xerxeskingofking
SOC-13
truely an awesome book, and a much recommended read for anybody with a steampunk fetish.
So then it could work long enough to obtain a workable infrastructure.
One thing needed, for the more politically inclined is to build a Constitution. That is more difficult then it sounds; it has to be built taking into account the values of the colonists. You can't just say there will be no patents of nobility if a good chunk of your population are nobles for instance, or you will take away their incentive for cooperation.*
*The Plymouth colony, according to Fischer's "Albion's Seed" solved that problem by the high-handed but not inefficient means of simply not giving tickets to anyone who was to rich or to poor in the old country. That way everyone would bring the values of the middling sort with them. As it was a deliberate attempt to create what they considered an ideal society, such rules are understandable in context.
*The Plymouth colony, according to Fischer's "Albion's Seed" solved that problem by the high-handed but not inefficient means of simply not giving tickets to anyone who was to rich or to poor in the old country. That way everyone would bring the values of the middling sort with them. As it was a deliberate attempt to create what they considered an ideal society, such rules are understandable in context.
In you assumme no FTL available, then it's quite difficult to have extensive surveys in the planning stage, as you cannot send your scouts to make it, going basically to colonize whatever you find (if at the long night, perhaps a promising planet you have information from previous surveys, but they're ulikely to be as extensive as to plan a colony, if it was not colonized).
If FTL is assumed to be available, then the problem I see is to keep the colony out of contact from the mother planet, as probably, even if the motherplanet intends to leave them alone, some traders will try to take advantage from its isolation to make a profit...
The only credible situation in were thi colony could be is as a 'sociologic experiment', and then the planet sould be interdicted to avoid extraplanetary interference.
About the preferred location, I agree with the idea of a not too big island, but I'd look one more like Malta or Rhodes, if only for the better climatology.
You'd also look for a place tectonically sable, or you risk an earthquake/tsunami combo to wipe out all your effort (easier for me to think about that today than for you more than a week ago).
In such an island I think you whould have to worry little about predators, as surely there whould not be many of them.
I fully agree with you in this point
Xerxeskingofking
SOC-13
I don't assume thier is NO FTL, just that FTL is a non trivial activity (unlike in normal traveller, or Star Trek/Wars, where it is very easy to travel intersteallar distances). the OP was asking how we'd do it, given that we only had one "lift" to take everything with us, and that we were not expecting or depending on any help from the motherland.
I think manhatten is better, mainly because it's attached to the contenient, which makes access to that lands resources easier, esp. if grav tech is a limited option. with manhatten, you'd be able to keep the tractors and such on off the island without them being too far form you
I think at the begining of the colony more than half of population must be put to work on other than child care, as you they must build all from nothing (houses, roads, power grid, etc...). Perhaps in some years, after initial work has been done theese percentages may be used.
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If FTL is available, even on a limited basis, I think contact (no matter how sporadic) whould be mantained, even if not officially. How long whould it take to become trivial if there are busines to be done on it? Remember we're talking about generations when setting the colony. Airplanes became a very usual sight in a generation or two from their invention, once military and commercial interest was put on them.
But OK. For the shake of the thread, let's accept the starting point.
Let's say that you're trying to colonize a planet two jumps and a parsec away from the nearest fuel source (only attainable with tanker support and and drop tanks (difficult enought to reach it once, but no more, at least without an important investment).
How whould you then do the extensive surveying in the planning stages?
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The islands I said are not so far from mainland either... Both were settled in stone ages.
But let's say a Manhatan like island in better climate (I cannot remember such an island in our world, but surely there are some)
If FTL is available, even on a limited basis, I think contact (no matter how sporadic) whould be mantained, even if not officially. How long whould it take to become trivial if there are busines to be done on it? Remember we're talking about generations when setting the colony. Airplanes became a very usual sight in a generation or two from their invention, once military and commercial interest was put on them.
But OK. For the shake of the thread, let's accept the starting point.
Let's say that you're trying to colonize a planet two jumps and a parsec away from the nearest fuel source (only attainable with tanker support and and drop tanks (difficult enought to reach it once, but no more, at least without an important investment).
How whould you then do the extensive surveying in the planning stages?
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The islands I said are not so far from mainland either... Both were settled in stone ages.
But let's say a Manhatan like island in better climate (I cannot remember such an island in our world, but surely there are some)
Xerxeskingofking
SOC-13
I agree that thier would be contact of some sort, but my arguement is that the planners of the colony could not depend on getting any supplies form home, and so, for the question asked ("what would i need to take with me for a one lift colony effort?"), they could be discounted.
it took generations to evlove sailing ships form vessels the ships of Columbus that could just about get to the americas, to the ships of the early victorian era that could travel around the world with not much diffculty, except for time. thier was great military and commercial interest in improving those ships, but it still took hundreds of years before crossing the adlantic became a semi-trivial activity.
some techologies advance faster than others. airplanes became routine by the time of the 2nd world war ~35 yeras if invention, space travel is still ultra rare today after 54 years. Yes, we can do more now in space than we could do in the 1960's but that doesn't change the fact that getting into space is a Big Deal still, and a non-trivial task.
even so, at the height of sailing ships usage, it still took the better part of six months to get to china via the Cape. form the point of view of a colony, help form home was over a year away. thus, form thier point of view, (and the point i was making) they could not rely on any help form the mother county.
by sending a single, extended, large scale survey mission with a project lifetime of several years.
if we are planning to colonise a world so close to the edge of our reach, then we are not about to rush into it. we are going to take our time, and maximise our chances of it working and founding a lasting colony.
my preference for manhattan was that you could get to it, and off it, without needing a sea-going boat, or a flying machine. Given time and materails, you could build a bidge with a long lifetime to and form it (as was done in real life)
but, assuming you can get to and form malta without effort, then malta does make a very good starting point, I aggree. With the very fertile lands of southern Italy to the north, and the breadbasket of the roman empire, the north african coast, to the south, not to mention the spare land on malta itself (since it will be a while before our conony is big enough to take up ALL of malta (it has a land area of about 300 square Km).
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Icosahedron
SOC-14 1K
Peter Schutze
SOC-12
>Let's say that you're trying to colonize a planet two jumps and a parsec away from the nearest fuel source (only attainable with tanker support and and drop tanks (difficult enought to reach it once, but no more, at least without an important investment).
>How whould you then do the extensive surveying in the planning stages?
If you know the planet is there and habitable then I cant see any reason why the first ship in the colonisation fleet wouldnt start with a >6month headstart to do the pathfinding work unless there was going to be only the one big lumbering transport
If it was 2 jumps and stuff away I would see it being done in stages as a vital neccesity .... first get supplies along the way to limit murphy's opportunities then send the pathfinders and finally send the main fleet
If it really was a one ship is the maximum effort we can manage mission, as the commander I'd lose a lot of skullsweat thinking of how to get something there early .... even a few smallcraft forced out a week ahead of the mothership are going to achieve a lot of important advance work regardless of how detailed your prior knowledge of the planet is.
>How whould you then do the extensive surveying in the planning stages?
If you know the planet is there and habitable then I cant see any reason why the first ship in the colonisation fleet wouldnt start with a >6month headstart to do the pathfinding work unless there was going to be only the one big lumbering transport
If it was 2 jumps and stuff away I would see it being done in stages as a vital neccesity .... first get supplies along the way to limit murphy's opportunities then send the pathfinders and finally send the main fleet
If it really was a one ship is the maximum effort we can manage mission, as the commander I'd lose a lot of skullsweat thinking of how to get something there early .... even a few smallcraft forced out a week ahead of the mothership are going to achieve a lot of important advance work regardless of how detailed your prior knowledge of the planet is.
Xerxeskingofking
SOC-13
hell, if you have to, just keep the main craft in orbit for 6 months while you do the surveys to find a good spot, and then set down. nothing forces you to start the coloney the moment you reach the system (your're carrying enough consumables to keep you going until local argrivulture can start making surpluses, so you've got a fiar amount of spare food to play with,).
