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Settler equipment list

Agreed, and WTH wisely speaks in generalities instead of listing how many neck sleeves, smoke shifters, and other specific gee-gaws are part of the rations and capital goods needed by the colony.

Wisely for the purpose it was written to serve. But players are apt to want to know what specific gee-gaws are available for their use. Mine are, anyway.

The interstellar region(1) around the colony will have a certain capacity for growing, manufacturing, and otherwise producing the items the colony will need.

The colony is 200 people. The manufacturing interests of the interstellar region around the colony is not even going to notice they exist. The neighbors will notice them, but even the nearest factory isn't going to realize that the six extra tools they sold this quarter went to some new people that has moved in weeks away.

In any case, the colony is located in the outback. They can't rely on buying anything from the civilized region, weeks of travel away. What they bring is what the have for the first long while. Anything they find themselves missing would be the subject of a PC nail mission, not a trip down to the local hardware store. There IS no local hardware store.


Hans
 
Heads up on the wild west, it was often 8 men to every woman and very violent; another thing, which will be a big factor in keeping women away is medical care, huge numbers of women died in child birth, as well as just for a typical person lost all their teeth by their 30's and often died in their 40's. The hollywood version is vastly unreal, and thinking that anybody from a higher TL would accept a serious degredation of their living standards is a fairly absurd proposition.
 
Heads up on the wild west, it was often 8 men to every woman and very violent; another thing, which will be a big factor in keeping women away is medical care, huge numbers of women died in child birth, as well as just for a typical person lost all their teeth by their 30's and often died in their 40's. The hollywood version is vastly unreal, and thinking that anybody from a higher TL would accept a serious degredation of their living standards is a fairly absurd proposition.

It may help if you assume that by 'Far Future cognates of Wild West settlers' I do not mean 'settlers cut from the historical Wild West and pasted unchanged into the Far Future' but rather 'settlers embodying some of the tropes we are familiar with from the Wild West but with differences where that would result in fairly absurd propositions'.


Hans
 
Now that I've read the article about Forboldn you quoted, the first thing that called my attention was the atmosphere taint. High CO2 means acidic rain, so they must be careful to have all their equipment acid-resistent.

About the medical supplies many people has cited, we must remember they have expiry date. For the pre space/early space tech Solomani (arround -2500 Imperial), it used to be at most 5 standard years, some drugs lasting quite less. I guess Imperials in 1100 have longer expiry dates, but won't last for the next generation, so I guess a good biologist (able to syntetize antibiotics) and chemist would be quite wellcome, as will any knowledge about natural medicial ressources in the planet (herbs, animals, fungus etc.).

About defenses, we must take into account the political situation in the planet, that in the article are presented (or so I understood) as many xenophobic (to other settlements) settlements. So they're not likely to be too wellcomed by their neighbours, at least until they have shown useful to them and peaceful relations established (and that may not be easy). So I think some defense equipment may be useful (though not enough as to be seen as a military unit or a potential danger).

I also see some of the posts seem to forget that

Once the starship leaves, they are pretty much on their own.

so, once on the planet, they cannot count on outside help, aside from what can be obtained from other people in the planet and an ocasional ship calling there. They must know what can they offer to offworlders that can make them worthy to visit by the occasional free trader, and perhaps to clear a zone to use as their own E class starport, should those free traders come.
 
It may help if you assume that by 'Far Future cognates of Wild West settlers' I do not mean 'settlers cut from the historical Wild West and pasted unchanged into the Far Future' but rather 'settlers embodying some of the tropes we are familiar with from the Wild West but with differences where that would result in fairly absurd propositions'.


Hans

And I STILL don't believe that Forboldn would have a TL of 4, regardless of the description of the planet. They don't have to be high tech but they should have been retconned to be TL 9 - as, in my not humble opinion IMNHO, all worlds within the Imperium that are under TL 7 should have been.
 
And I STILL don't believe that Forboldn would have a TL of 4, regardless of the description of the planet. They don't have to be high tech but they should have been retconned to be TL 9 - as, in my not humble opinion IMNHO, all worlds within the Imperium that are under TL 7 should have been.
I understand where this is coming from. I've always had issue with the concept that people are stuck in a low tech rut. Look how quickly our technology has advanced on it's own. How much easier it would be with a pre knowledge of what is possible. Get some books, send some people for off world schooling, find examples to reverse engineer... Oh, wait, that's what we did with that alien ship that crashed in Nevada! :)

However certain parts of our world are still far behind. The reasons why could apply to Traveller. Dirt poor because of a lack of resources? Bad government keeping all the money for itself. Government hindering progress because they think an advanced population can more easily overthrow them? An elite class that likes the rest of the population to be poorer so that they feel superior? Too much war eating up resources and time?

That aside, a TL 4 society could still utilize a great deal of higher technology. Much technology is disposable these days. Who repairs cell phones, TVs, DVD players. Some people don't spend time and money sending their computers for upgrades. Just buy replacements. From where? Imports which take at least a week to transport by ship. Sound familiar!?

Some of the lower tech countries are getting high tech "donations" of water purification systems, power plants, laptops in schools.

So TL4 just ain't what it used to be. :)

In any case, the colony is located in the outback. They can't rely on buying anything from the civilized region, weeks of travel away. What they bring is what the have for the first long while. Anything they find themselves missing would be the subject of a PC nail mission, not a trip down to the local hardware store. There IS no local hardware store.
Saying the colony is located in the outback means little to me.

More detail may be needed to explain away why the colonists don't go into town.

Is it half way around the world? 6000 km or so away? Quick calc, approx 3700 miles.

Ron Dossenbach went cross country on a bicycle and covered 3700 miles in less than 2 weeks. Yes, this is quite extreme, but I'm just saying.. a low tech bicycle!

How long on a horse? A powered bike?

With the dense tainted atmo and travel time it would be better to go higher tech. An enclosed ATV? A bit expensive. Excluding accidents it should last several years. Electric with solar panels for recharging might be the way to go. You'd have to come up with raging rivers, grand canyons, swamps, dense vegetation and other reasons to impede travel if inducing isolation is something you feel is necessary.

Did none of the colonists have personal grav vehicles? Traveling at the proper altitude gets around the air density and terrain issues.

Maybe a lucky teenager has a grav bike. Cruising speed of over 500kph could cover quite a distance quickly and can operate for over 16 hours without spare fuel cells.

I think that unless these people were purposely isolating themselves due to religion or other reasons they would make the journey when necessary, or even sometimes just for socialization and entertainment. Showing off produce at the annual fair; dressing up and getting their square dance on.

Now money to buy things is another story. First, what hellish life did these people have? They were making and saving money and want to give it up to possibly work twice as hard living in poverty, squaller, and isolation?

I believe the wild west was either people trying to improve their life by getting free or cheap land of their own to farm or people wanting to strike it rich mining. What reward is in your colonists future? Why are they choosing this life? They are picking up and relocating, why here and not someplace nice?

A few citizens of this colony might choose or be asked to live and work in the established city. They make money and buy certain items which they bring back to the small colony once or twice a year. My ancestors used to go to America and work for the winter then go back to the "old country" to work the family farm the rest of the year - and it was at least a 2 week trip!

Not trying to stir up trouble. I just know that as a player I'd be asking "Why can't I bring the air raft I got when mustering out. Take the cost of transport off the credits I accumulated during my career. While we're at it, throw a portable solar generator and a crate of power cells in the back seat."
 
Finally, I have a contribution.

I am pretty sure no one else has suggested this, but I may have missed it, but since they are all hanging out on the highlands and the lowlands are full of POed natives, perhaps an Ultralight or two would not be out of order. And as has been suggested here for ATVs and the like, wings have/are thin solar cells for charging the electric motor(s).

Just my two CrImps.

Laterness,
Craig.
 
Tech Level 4 hmmn ..steam powered cars and Two stroke internal combustion engines and later the 4 stroke and the Diesal .. are from this era (1880-1910)..all utalized bio fuels at first and fossil fuels later when the cost of gasoline and fuel oil became cheaper than the cost of producing ethanol and methanol (economics not technology ) ..the model T by Henry ford was multi fuel (has a small knob on the carb to adjust for any mixture of Methanol, Ethanol and Gasoline) and is from this era as well ..the Diesal originally was desinged to burn olive oil and was later adapted to #2 kerosene which later became known as diesal fuel ..and tractors predate cars in their utilization..
I can see a case where the settlers are driving off on tractors towing a wagon..much more versatile than an automobile when you have the attachments to do the work of a backhoe or plow or dig holes (power takeoff) run a saw mill ( also from the pto ) and an ethanol still is simple and easy to maintain at any technology level...
 
I am pretty sure no one else has suggested this, but I may have missed it, but since they are all hanging out on the highlands and the lowlands are full of POed natives, perhaps an Ultralight or two would not be out of order. And as has been suggested here for ATVs and the like, wings have/are thin solar cells for charging the electric motor(s).

Just my two CrImps.

Laterness,
Craig.
well run it on ethanol ..and you can fly light planes and airships in this era easy
Specifically Early WWI biplanes were all developed in this era first flight to full on flight ( and a bi plane is essentially a low tech ultralight) ...the Write Model F ..the Early Curtis planes all developed at Tech 4 ....so ..we have airships and Biplanes that operate in the 50 to 100KPH range ...
 
And I STILL don't believe that Forboldn would have a TL of 4, regardless of the description of the planet. They don't have to be high tech but they should have been retconned to be TL 9 - as, in my not humble opinion IMNHO, all worlds within the Imperium that are under TL 7 should have been.
good point ..while the high tech goods are readily available ..tech 4 is what the infrastructure can support without outside assitance ...or importing ..and not all worlds are going to have the high tech infrastructure ..that doesnt mean you cant buy the imported stuff ..that takes weeks to arrive ..the tech level means what can be produced by the local yockles with no outside assistance ie if the imperium collapses ...or trade is cut off by an intersteller war...
 
well run it on ethanol ..and you can fly light planes and airships in this era easy
Specifically Early WWI biplanes were all developed in this era first flight to full on flight ( and a bi plane is essentially a low tech ultralight) ...the Write Model F ..the Early Curtis planes all developed at Tech 4 ....so ..we have airships and Biplanes that operate in the 50 to 100KPH range ...

Ethanol really isn't energy dense enough for powered flight, except using jet engines. Even E85 Gasahol is low. Certain aircraft CAN fly on it, but it's a borderline case. (C-130's can fly pretty close to cargo-less on Ethanol, but it's not ideal, and not useful for cargo.)

Higher oxygen levels might make up for this to some extent, but introduce other issues (oxygen toxicity, more fire-danger).

But yes, early powered flight COULD be done at TL 4.
 
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good point ..while the high tech goods are readily available ..tech 4 is what the infrastructure can support without outside assitance ...or importing ..
Unfortunately, that definition would make the TL of an outpost that imported all its equipment 0. Not useful for a referee's purpose and not supported by canonical UWPs.

IMO referees and would-be visitors need to know what equipment people they encounter carry around and what equipment they can buy or get repaired, so for myself I use TL as the level of technology employed by a sizable majority of the people of that world, whether imported or locally produced. Government and the upper classes are almost certainly using limited amounts of imports.

...and not all worlds are going to have the high tech infrastructure ..that doesnt mean you cant buy the imported stuff ..that takes weeks to arrive ..the tech level means what can be produced by the local yockles with no outside assistance ie if the imperium collapses ...or trade is cut off by an intersteller war...
Denmark has practically no metal of its own apart from a bit of bog iron. Almost everything manufactured here relies on imported raw material. If we were to be cut off from outside assistance, we'd be hard pressed to maintain a TL of 3. Nevertheless, it makes very little sense to categorize Denmark as TL3. It doesn't tell you anything about all the high-tech tools and vehicles that you can buy and have repaired and maintained.


Hans
 
Um... 200 settlers, including children and youngsters. Budget is their life savings plus whatever money they can convince a bank to loan them. Possibly a subsidy from some philantropic institution.

Qualitative suggestions are fine, but I'm also looking for help with the quantities. Including what will NOT be taken along because the settlers can't afford it.

The adventure does assume that the settlers are well equipped, but I still don't think they'll run to air defense lasers and missiles.

Oh, and the local law level won't really matter a hill of beans if the nearest law is thousand of klicks away, and there are only a handful of millions of people on the whole planet.



Hans

Hmm, seems to me that the TNE World Tamer's Handbook has an economic model that works fairly well for small settlements such as you propose here.

Caveat: note that the economic model in WTH doesn't actually work all that well. It can be used for a small colony, but if you try to model something larger, you'll quickly find its weak points (among other things wrong with it, it can't be used to model the Earth - you can't possibly grow enough food at TL8 to feed seven billion people on the land area of this planet (you can just about manage two billion, three with some insanely optimistic assumptions)).

That said...

Whenever I've used that particular model, I've always worked on the assumption that the ideal solution is the "excess labor" model - buy one unit of capital machinery of whatever type for every two labourers, plus at least two extra units of heavy industry capital equipment.
Which gives you best case productivity for lowest investment. With the two extra Heavy Industry units for making more capital machinery of whatever type, in whatever order you prefer.

Given that,

1) tents sufficient for everyone till they can get minimal prefab housing assembled,
2) enough livestock for 10-20% of the farms you expect to have (your people won't be eating their own livestock for years, they'll be letting them grow and living off the crops plus hunting till then),
3) enough weaponry for a militia unit consisting of all adult males (so about 40 rifles, five or six machineguns, all of tech level of choice),
4) food for a year (yes, one way to do this is to start your colony in local spring and count on a harvest come fall, but I prefer starting the colony in the fall, and using all the labour available to get the colony put together before a big chunk of them have to start working farms full time),
5) at least one light grav vehicle,
6) ammo and fuel. Sufficient for a week of combat for the ammo, and for six months of routine operations for the fuel. If things go well, you'll be manufacturing your own ammo and fuel before you run out.

Depending on game system, you can either use the generic air-raft for the grav vehicle, or design something. As I recall, the old TML came up with bunches of air-raft-equivalents that were way cheaper than the standard one.

Ditto for weaponry. No, they don't need bleeding edge Imperial stuff. ACRs at the upper-end, on down to WW2 era equipment at the lower-end, depending on availability and cost. But it would be really embarrassing to have your colony sacked by a band of TL4 brigands because they didn't think that decent firearms were a must-have.

What they're going to have for trade:

1) basically nothing at first.
2) within a year or two, if you've done your sums right, and nothing excessively terrible has upset any applecarts, you can begin exporting food and/or raw materials offworld. Your markets are generally going to be places with no biosphere of their own - vacuum worlds, belts, etc.
3) within the same time-frame, with appropriate planning, you can begin exporting manufactured goods locally - you won't make much, but it'll be higher TL than the locals make, and thus worth buying.

Note that if you don't mind building up some local dependencies, you can trade your manufactured goods for their food. If that's part of the plan, bring along less in the way of farm machinery and more fabbers.

Note further that even if you go this route, it's a really bad idea to be able to grow less food than the bare minimum needed by your colony. Depending on trade for luxury foodstuffs (and by luxury I mean anything more than beans&grain) is fine, but being in a situation where starvation is a likelihood if a local trade caravan is late (or your grav vehicle breaks down) is a bad thing.

Oh, and hopefully they have at least one MD and one RN (or the Impy equivalents). A Dentist would be nice too, if they're still a separate specialty in the Imperium. And one guy whose job it is to be the sheriff. Beyond those special cases, the economic model will pretty much mask the gory details to whatever extent you'd like.

Just out of curiousity, what TL did your colonists expect to live at? Somehow, I can't see Imperials wanting to live at TL4....
 
It should be noted that at no point has the Earth ever sustained all its human population with land-based resources, either. Not aquaculture to the 2/3 level, but still, always a significant fraction of the worlds food is aquatic.
 
It should be noted that at no point has the Earth ever sustained all its human population with land-based resources, either. Not aquaculture to the 2/3 level, but still, always a significant fraction of the worlds food is aquatic.

Apparently Roup uses entire ocean-sized patches of water for aquaculture etc. from the Traveller Wikia article).
 
Now that I've read the article about Forboldn you quoted, the first thing that called my attention was the atmosphere taint. High CO2 means acidic rain, so they must be careful to have all their equipment acid-resistent.
I didn't know that high CO2 content in the air resulted in acid rain. I have always assumed that those settlers who lived at a sufficiently high altitude would just be able to ignore the CO2 (except when travelling in the lower altitudes).

Can you tell me more about this? How potent is the acid rain you're talking about?

About the medical supplies many people has cited, we must remember they have expiry date. For the pre space/early space tech Solomani (arround -2500 Imperial), it used to be at most 5 standard years, some drugs lasting quite less. I guess Imperials in 1100 have longer expiry dates, but won't last for the next generation, so I guess a good biologist (able to syntetize antibiotics) and chemist would be quite wellcome, as will any knowledge about natural medicial ressources in the planet (herbs, animals, fungus etc.).
There's an early adventure about someone whose father or grandfather hid a load of medical drugs during the 4th Frontier War (I think it was). Those drugs were assumed to retain their value after more than 20 years.

A limit that is likely to kick in much sooner is how big a reserve of drugs the settlers can afford to buy up front.


Hans
 
I understand where this is coming from. I've always had issue with the concept that people are stuck in a low tech rut. Look how quickly our technology has advanced on it's own. How much easier it would be with a pre knowledge of what is possible. Get some books, send some people for off world schooling, find examples to reverse engineer... Oh, wait, that's what we did with that alien ship that crashed in Nevada! :)

The backwater world that is backward for lack of capital to invest in uplifting is a common SF trope, as is the bucolic world that is stuck at a limited technological level because everyone are content with life the way it is.

That aside, a TL 4 society could still utilize a great deal of higher technology. Much technology is disposable these days. Who repairs cell phones, TVs, DVD players. Some people don't spend time and money sending their computers for upgrades. Just buy replacements. From where? Imports which take at least a week to transport by ship. Sound familiar!?
Paying with exports that outsiders are willing to buy. No exports, no imports. Or limited exports, upper class hogs the imports, leaving the majority of the population unable to buy any.

Saying the colony is located in the outback means little to me.

More detail may be needed to explain away why the colonists don't go into town.

Is it half way around the world? 6000 km or so away? Quick calc, approx 3700 miles.

It's two weeks of travel away with waggons through bandit-infested territory. A small, well-armed party mounted on local horses with CO2 tolerance could get there in a couple of days. A lone bicyclist wouldn't get there at all. A waggon (drawn by locally bred oxen) escorted by a dozen well-armed people could get through all right, but it would involve a significant fraction of the colony's adult labor force.

Did none of the colonists have personal grav vehicles? Traveling at the proper altitude gets around the air density and terrain issues.
Apaprently no one did.

I believe the wild west was either people trying to improve their life by getting free or cheap land of their own to farm or people wanting to strike it rich mining. What reward is in your colonists future? Why are they choosing this life? They are picking up and relocating, why here and not someplace nice?
'Here' is already someplace nice. The settlers get big tracts of prime land for money that wouldn't buy them a mountain cabin on Regina.

Not trying to stir up trouble. I just know that as a player I'd be asking "Why can't I bring the air raft I got when mustering out. Take the cost of transport off the credits I accumulated during my career. While we're at it, throw a portable solar generator and a crate of power cells in the back seat."

Just for the record, in this adventure the PCs are not members of the settler group, but that's a quibble.

If a player of mine who were part of a colony venture did have an air/raft or the money to buy one, I'd certainly let him bring it. I'd also let him have the use of it for a while. Then I'd hit it with maintenance problems, breakdowns, and lack of repair facilities and spare parts.

I also expect the settlers to bring along a means of generating power. I haven't decided on what kind yet.


Hans
 
It looks like a guesstimate of the colony budget is sorely needed. With the caveat that nothing is set in stone, here's what I have so far:

According to Striker, Regina's per capita income is CrImp25,600. If these people are dead average middle class, they should have a yearly income of CrImp5,120,000. While there is a leavening of upper middle class families, I'm not sure how much that would increase the income.

But how much does a yearly income translate into in terms of lifetime savings? I must confess that I haven't the foggiest notion. Twice as much? Five times as much? Ten times?

Whatever it is, a sizable chunk goes to buying the land. That is a crucial part of the adventure.

The remainder would be the budget for the colony equipment.

Absent any real basis for an estimate, I'll tentatively set the colony budget at 5 years' average income, or MCr25.6. Of this, MCr5 has gone to pay for the land, leaving MCr20.6 for equipment (and trade items?).


Hans
 
I didn't know that high CO2 content in the air resulted in acid rain. I have always assumed that those settlers who lived at a sufficiently high altitude would just be able to ignore the CO2 (except when travelling in the lower altitudes).

Can you tell me more about this? How potent is the acid rain you're talking about?

Its just basic chemistry: CO2 + H2O <====> CO3H2 (carbonic acid).

When Co2 and water merge, they produce carbonic acid. It's a mild acid (most carbonic waters with carbonic gas added are acidic this way, while most natural ones are with sodium bicarbonate instead of carbonic gas and so are mildly alkaline). It will not melt metal nor burn skin, but will probably accelerate corrosion (as many statues and other, mostly stone built, structures are being afected nowdays in 21th century earth) and may even be a mild irritant (mostly to mucoses), but don't forget its effects will be cumulative. I'd guess its seas are mildly acidic too. I wouldn't swim there without protective suit (and good protective goggles).

Even so, I guess most plastics would resist it. I'm not so sure about metals (mostly those that can be produced at TL 4) nor stone/masonry.
 
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