Shipboard life support and food per person per day?
- Thread starter agorski
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FreeTrav
SOC-14 1K
Did you just "out" yourself as an Aussie?
casquilho
SOC-13
Nope. I am a crazy "Angeleno" aka California USA.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Robots cook your burger and fries at this new California fast food restaurant
A new California restaurant claims to be the first fully autonomous restaurant, with its burgers and fries made by robots. As fast food chains increasingly try to find ways for machines to replace some human workers, NBC News’ Elwyn Lopez gets an inside look.
Secret sauce - artificial intelligence.
A new California restaurant claims to be the first fully autonomous restaurant, with its burgers and fries made by robots. As fast food chains increasingly try to find ways for machines to replace some human workers, NBC News’ Elwyn Lopez gets an inside look.
Secret sauce - artificial intelligence.
I think fresh food is more realistic than MREs.
Especially given the places a Free Trader is likely to frequent. Frontier planets with farmers markets, low tech worlds with beef on hoof, and in the cases such as mining outposts or moons, the meals will be canned food or died food. Or dry goods, flour, sugar, grits, ETC.
Especially given the places a Free Trader is likely to frequent. Frontier planets with farmers markets, low tech worlds with beef on hoof, and in the cases such as mining outposts or moons, the meals will be canned food or died food. Or dry goods, flour, sugar, grits, ETC.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
You are not going to serve someone who just paid 10,000 or 8000 Credits to travel on your ship Meal, Ready to Eat. Nor are you going to feed your crew continuously on MREs, unless you are looking for a mutiny.
The U.S. Army allows 6 pounds per man per day for the Field A ration, which consists as follows:
It consists of approximately 200 items, including such perishables as fresh and frozen meats, vegetables, and fruit. It is intended for use primarily under stable conditions and during static phases of military operations when normal cooking and refrigeration facilities are available. It should be issued in preference to any other type of ration whenever it is available and circumstances permit its use (0.183 cu ft per ration). Field ration B is the same as the field ration, with nonperishables substituted for perishables (0.1269 cu ft per ration). The Army also budgets 3 cubic feet of refrigerator and freezer space per man per month.
Water requirements range from 15 gallons of water per day per man for a temporary camp to 30-60 gallons per day per man for a semi-permanent camp. The 15 gallons per day includes bathing. Allowing for efficient water recycling of say 90%, 30 gallons per man for water should be ample unless you would prefer allowing 60 gallons per man. One cubic meter equals slightly over 264 gallons and 35 cubic feet.
Therefore one cubic meter of water would supply 4 to 8 men, assuming recycling. One cubic meter of food would supply 190 men for one day assuming Field Ration A, or 275 men for one day assuming you are using Field Ration B with non-perishables. One cubic meter of refrigerator/freezer space would be sufficient for 11 men for one month.
The galley for the U.S. Coast Guard buoy tender Bramble was 15.5 feet by 15 feet, and could feed a crew of 50 to 80 men. If you want, I can supply the area of the mess spaces, but assuming the eating area would approximate the wardroom of the Bramble, that would be 17.5 feet by 17.5 feet. The galley would then be 3 of the standard 1.5 meter deck squares by 3 deck squares, or 9 deck squares. The wardroom would be say 4 by 4 deck squares, or 16 deck squares.
Unlike Marc, I figure on three 8 hours watches per day, so my ship crews are considerably larger than the standard for Traveller. I include a Steward, a Master Cook, and one Cook's Assistant. If the ship regularly carries passengers, those numbers would increase.
One Traveller dTon of water would be sufficient for between 54 and 108 men for an extended period of time, assuming the dTon to be 13.5 cubic meters. One dTon of food would supply 2565 man-days of food at the Field Ration A requirement, or 3700 man-days of food using Field Ration B. The amount of refrigerator/freezer space would be set by the maximum number of persons on board.
All of the above data is taken from FM 101-10, Staff Officers' Field Manual-Organization, Technical,and Logistical Data, Part 1-Unclassified Data, 1959.
For a quick rule of thumb, you can assume that one long ton, 2240 pounds, of rations will occupy 94 cubic feet, that would feed about 370 men for one day. That comes from FM 55-15, Transportation Reference Data, 1960. Ninety-four cubic feet would equal about 2.66 cubic meters.
The U.S. military currently assume the calorie requirements of sedentary men at 2900 calories per day, and 2400 calories per day for women.
I should say that I served as a quartermaster officer in the U.S. Army, and I am one of those strange individuals who find logistics absolutely fascinating.
The U.S. Army allows 6 pounds per man per day for the Field A ration, which consists as follows:
It consists of approximately 200 items, including such perishables as fresh and frozen meats, vegetables, and fruit. It is intended for use primarily under stable conditions and during static phases of military operations when normal cooking and refrigeration facilities are available. It should be issued in preference to any other type of ration whenever it is available and circumstances permit its use (0.183 cu ft per ration). Field ration B is the same as the field ration, with nonperishables substituted for perishables (0.1269 cu ft per ration). The Army also budgets 3 cubic feet of refrigerator and freezer space per man per month.
Water requirements range from 15 gallons of water per day per man for a temporary camp to 30-60 gallons per day per man for a semi-permanent camp. The 15 gallons per day includes bathing. Allowing for efficient water recycling of say 90%, 30 gallons per man for water should be ample unless you would prefer allowing 60 gallons per man. One cubic meter equals slightly over 264 gallons and 35 cubic feet.
Therefore one cubic meter of water would supply 4 to 8 men, assuming recycling. One cubic meter of food would supply 190 men for one day assuming Field Ration A, or 275 men for one day assuming you are using Field Ration B with non-perishables. One cubic meter of refrigerator/freezer space would be sufficient for 11 men for one month.
The galley for the U.S. Coast Guard buoy tender Bramble was 15.5 feet by 15 feet, and could feed a crew of 50 to 80 men. If you want, I can supply the area of the mess spaces, but assuming the eating area would approximate the wardroom of the Bramble, that would be 17.5 feet by 17.5 feet. The galley would then be 3 of the standard 1.5 meter deck squares by 3 deck squares, or 9 deck squares. The wardroom would be say 4 by 4 deck squares, or 16 deck squares.
Unlike Marc, I figure on three 8 hours watches per day, so my ship crews are considerably larger than the standard for Traveller. I include a Steward, a Master Cook, and one Cook's Assistant. If the ship regularly carries passengers, those numbers would increase.
One Traveller dTon of water would be sufficient for between 54 and 108 men for an extended period of time, assuming the dTon to be 13.5 cubic meters. One dTon of food would supply 2565 man-days of food at the Field Ration A requirement, or 3700 man-days of food using Field Ration B. The amount of refrigerator/freezer space would be set by the maximum number of persons on board.
All of the above data is taken from FM 101-10, Staff Officers' Field Manual-Organization, Technical,and Logistical Data, Part 1-Unclassified Data, 1959.
For a quick rule of thumb, you can assume that one long ton, 2240 pounds, of rations will occupy 94 cubic feet, that would feed about 370 men for one day. That comes from FM 55-15, Transportation Reference Data, 1960. Ninety-four cubic feet would equal about 2.66 cubic meters.
The U.S. military currently assume the calorie requirements of sedentary men at 2900 calories per day, and 2400 calories per day for women.
I should say that I served as a quartermaster officer in the U.S. Army, and I am one of those strange individuals who find logistics absolutely fascinating.
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The watch system on most modern cargo ships depends on the department.
Deck (Navigation Watch; 1 officer, 1 rating): 4-on/8-off at sea; 6-on/6-off in port (Chief Officer switches to day-work)
Deck (other) - day-work (usually 4-on/1-off/4-on/15-off); Master (and Chief Officer if more than 3 Mates) on-call 24/7
Engineering (non-UMS) (Engineering Watch; 1 officer, 1 rating): 4-on/8-off
Engineering (UMS) (Engineering Watch): day-work, watch standers rotate 24hr on-call
Engineering (other): day-work
Steward's: 4-on/1-off/3-on/2-off/4-on/10-off
Things are a bit different for the Deck and Engine departments on cruise ships. The standard 4-on/8-off for navigation watch standers is still in operation, but with more staff (typically 2 officers and 2 ratings); the larger vessels will generally have a Captain (in charge of the whole ship), a Staff Captain (in charge of the Deck) and two 1st/Chief Officers/Mates (usually called the Navigator and the Safety Officer). The engineering department is more extensive as it includes all the maintenance trades required to look after the passenger spaces; you typically have the Chief Engineer (all technical departments), a Staff Chief Engineer (in charge of the engine rooms) and several heads of maintenance departments.
And then there is the Hotel department (the largest on the ship by a long way) where the shift patterns will depend very much on the role.
Badenov
SOC-12
Our ship was 4-on-4-off-8-on-8-off, with an all-hands drill randomly thrown in to break up your off shift. Your time for showers, when they were allowed, and meals had to come out of your off shift as well, and we were all pretty miserable under that skipper.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
I would think that evaporation and condensation, ye water cycle, should purify the water.
We do have enough energy available.
We do have enough energy available.
I should note (too late to edit my post above) that Deck officers normally have additional jobs which need to be done in their "off" hours. Nav watch ratings can also do overtime with the rest of the deck ratings when it is available.
From what I've seen, meals are taken during off-hours (but the bridge and engine control room have plenty of snacks), with meal times extending either side of a watch change where possible (breakfast and lunch is no problem; dinner doesn't work out so well - those coming off the 4-8 watch will usually have food set aside for them unless there is an arrangement for the 8-12 watch to cover them for long enough to eat).
From what I've seen, meals are taken during off-hours (but the bridge and engine control room have plenty of snacks), with meal times extending either side of a watch change where possible (breakfast and lunch is no problem; dinner doesn't work out so well - those coming off the 4-8 watch will usually have food set aside for them unless there is an arrangement for the 8-12 watch to cover them for long enough to eat).
Duke Craig
SOC-12
Interestingly, ship plans have started including a galley and stores.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
I was just figuring 8 hour watches, but 4 on 8 off would work as well. I also assume that some crew members would have the ability to man the galley if needed, say a Steward-0 skill.
Badenov
SOC-12
I always assumed that small ships had more automat-like facilities. Unless an actual steward is present.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
As that was a TV series, I suspect the TV dinners were more to keep costs down and simplify cooking. One problem with TV dinners, and I have eaten them in my more distant past, is that they do not have a lot of taste and it does get monotonous fairly quickly. Good food is one of the fastest ways of maintaining moral in a crew.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
1. I think it depends.
2. As I recall, tee vee dinners were invented to clear off the excess Thanksgiving turkey stock.
3. If you have separate prepared foods, and heat them up separately, it might improve the taste, and experience.
2. As I recall, tee vee dinners were invented to clear off the excess Thanksgiving turkey stock.
3. If you have separate prepared foods, and heat them up separately, it might improve the taste, and experience.
Thanks for the Link! Makes it a lot easier to understand the role of Stewards and possible Chief Stewards of ship crews in Traveller... at least in any Traveller I'm working on/with.
Thanks a lot! I've been looking for an answer like this for use with galley's in my ships.
Most cargo ships don't have a (Chief) Steward, just a Ship's Cook and an Assistant Steward; the (Chief) Steward's role gets split between the Ship's Cook (galley related stuff) and one of the junior Deck officers (in charge of cleaning, laundry, etc; the actual work done by Deck ratings and the Assistant Steward).
I have a rule IMTU that a ship of TL12+ can have a microfarm/water regen/protein tanks that can supply an indefinite supply of sustenance for one person at a space of 0.75 dton per person (about 10 cubic meters).
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