Ship's Crew Numbers

[mike wightman]

If you have Supplement 4: Citizens of the Imperium then Soc 10+ gets you into the Noble career if you opt for it.

 

[atpollard]

As @atpollard cites, it's an accusation being leveled against the (asian subcontinent) Indians (of a Hindi persuasion) by incumbent interests that don't want the competition. It's also an accusation that has been directed towards MANY nations around the Pacific Rim (no need to enumerate them all) as well as almost the entire African continent and the people from there (I wonder why ... ).

Actually, I am less cosmopolitan than that. I just work at an Architecture-Engineering-Land Planning company that employs people from various countries (Architects and Engineers) and have dealt with thousands of Reviewers over 35 years of commercial permitting. It was just a personal observation that individuals from a Hindi background tended to be more "letter of the rules" and "follow the checklist" whether it applies in a particular situation or not, compared to people from other backgrounds (including other 'not like me' backgrounds). I genuinely do believe that it is a cultural trait [per my Cultural Anthropology education] ... it may be part of their "volksgeist", just as our "nobody is going to tell me what to do" individualism is part of the American "volksgeist".

 

[kilemall]

Many an Oxford classics graduate can recite Homer in its original Greek but have no common sense or ability to reason.

Int is reasoning, original thought,problem solving, critical thinking

Education is memory, retained knowledge and training.

A highly educated physicist may be able to solve field equations, but will never have an original theory.

I prefer Int as CPU and Edu as storage/database but LBB8 twisted me that way.

 

[whulorigan]

So, on a serious note and hopefully stepping away from the line, Int 1 (or any value) Soc 12 is pretty much the definition of Nobility in Traveller, with all attendant perks. In MgT1, you qualify for the Nobility career automatically, I dunno what CT does for nobles.

In CT you must have Soc=10 as prerequisite to qualify, and "enlistment" is automatic. Once enlisted, you had to achieve "position" (= "commission roll") in order to take up a posting at your current Soc-level. Promotion would raise your Soc-level by one.

One could presumably choose not to roll for position and be a simple Honor Noble living on one's estate or as a gentleman of independent occupation, or remain a courtier or functionary of another's court, or one might achieve position and become a Landed (proper) or High Noble representing territories at the interplanetary scale or Ceremonial/Rank Noble of significance within the Imperial Bureaucracy.

But CT also had the separate Careers of Bureaucrat and Diplomat which were open to non-Nobles but had significant admission and position bonuses for high Soc, and could grant good Soc increases through service and produced many active and retired Ceremonial/Rank Nobles.

 

[Grav_Moped]

To be excessively fair to historical precedents, this particular "accusation" has been deployed and used REPEATEDLY against what we shall respectfully call foreigners who don't look or sound like us.

The classic version of this is "Polish jokes". Problem for Poland is that it's stuck in between a few powerful countries and doesn't have much by way of naturally defensible borders -- so it tended throughout history to get overrun from one or the other direction, with the language changing to reflect the latest interlopers. So, Poles tended to be multilingual.

Now, have them emigrate to the UK and US, where they now have to learn English also. These new immigrants seem not all that fluent in English, so they're seen as intellectually inferior. But that's because English is their second, third, perhaps even fourth language....

 

[Rupert]

That may be more mannerisms and polish, which may relate, in our case, to Social Standing.

Education implies retention of information.

Also the ability to use it, though I take it that it's mainly the ability to use it in conventional ways, and to retain information about how to do something, etc.

For example, in MgT2 Astrogation is generally an EDU task, as is maintaining and operating a jump drive, but over-charging a drive to get more performance, or analysing sensor data is Int based, and for science EDU is for known stuff, INT for research into problems.

TNE used fixed Attributes for each skill, and EDU was used for most science, engineering, and ship operation skills - they required knowledge more than innovation. INT was for skills like Tactics, Research (digging up information, not scientific experimental research), and Survival - things that requiring reasoning and analysis. Also, TNE's academic careers improved your EDU, and gave out skills based on EDU, not INT (though either would do as a prerequisite to get into graduate terms).

EDU is book learning, INT is quick thinking, imagination and in TNE also willpower.

 

[Rupert]

I dunno what CT does for nobles.

Supplement 4: Citizens of the Imperium, says nobles are "Individuals of the upper classes who perform little consistent function, but often have large amounts of ready money." The career is only open to those with Soc 10+, and they get in automatically if they want it. Survival is 3+, with no mods, re-enlistment is 4+, so staying as long as you like is fairly easy. Position is 5+, with a bonus for EDU 9+, so getting a knighthood and Soc B is pretty easy. Promotion is 12+, with a +1 for Int 10+, so advancement is hard.

The cash benefit table is very generous, especially if you have the +1 from retirement (Gambling is not on the nobles' skill tables). The material benefits table hands out high passages, TAS membership, guns and blades and a 1-in-6 chance (high rank not required) of a Yacht. There is no mention of a mortgage on the ship (in fact, in CT the only ship that's mentioned as having a mortgage is the trader a merchant might get).

 

[aramis]

So, on a serious note and hopefully stepping away from the line, Int 1 (or any value) Soc 12 is pretty much the definition of Nobility in Traveller, with all attendant perks. In MgT1, you qualify for the Nobility career automatically, I dunno what CT does for nobles.

In CT, those with Soc A can auto entry in the noble career (in Sup 4). Or get bonuses to Navy Comission, Marine [officer] Promotion, Diplomat Entrance and Promotion, Bureaucrat Position; Penalties to Pirate enlistment, Rogue Enlistment.
In terms of improving it...
Skill: Navy, Diplomat
MOB: Navy, Marine, Army, Sailor, Flyer, Bureaucrat, Scientist, Rogue
Promotion: Noble.
Negative Skill: Other
Negative MOB: Pirate

 

[mike wightman]

The classic version of this is "Polish jokes". Problem for Poland is that it's stuck in between a few powerful countries and doesn't have much by way of naturally defensible borders -- so it tended throughout history to get overrun from one or the other direction, with the language changing to reflect the latest interlopers. So, Poles tended to be multilingual.

Now, have them emigrate to the UK and US, where they now have to learn English also. These new immigrants seem not all that fluent in English, so they're seen as intellectually inferior. But that's because English is their second, third, perhaps even fourth language....

Not so in my experience. There was a smallish Polish diaspora at the start of the war and many settled in the north east of england. Their descendents are still here now and as geordie as the rest of us. Following Bliar's opening of the borders to unlimited EU migration there was a wave of Romanian and Polish.

I taught Polish students. Only one ever pretended not to be fluent in english, he went home for a couple of years but then came back. By now his friends had all revealed he could speak english very well. Needless to say he "settled down" very quickly after that. Other Polish students that had been through the Polish primary system were much better at maths than the native geordies because their traditional teaching methods were far superior to how math has been taught in england for decades. Every Polish student apart from the earlier mention was in the top set by GCSE time, even if they had struggled with english at first.

The Romanians were a different kettle of fish, they did meet your stereotype, but board rules prevent me discussing them.

 

[coliver988]

and there is always the savant syndrome that has boatloads of knowledge but no way to use it effectively, which could be a way to interpret high education and low intelligence.

 

[Grav_Moped]

Not so in my experience.

Being "not so" was precisely my point. The (false) stereotype began with (mistakenly) using English proficiency as the sole proxy for intelligence, disregarding fluency in languages other than English (and likely multiple languages, to boot).

The point being that Polish immigrants were likely better educated (at least in number of languages spoken) than the host nations' populaces, but the natives couldn't tell -- and wouldn't have wanted to know anyhow.