mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
If you have Supplement 4: Citizens of the Imperium then Soc 10+ gets you into the Noble career if you opt for it.
Ship's Crew Numbers
- Thread starter Badenov
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Actually, I am less cosmopolitan than that. I just work at an Architecture-Engineering-Land Planning company that employs people from various countries (Architects and Engineers) and have dealt with thousands of Reviewers over 35 years of commercial permitting. It was just a personal observation that individuals from a Hindi background tended to be more "letter of the rules" and "follow the checklist" whether it applies in a particular situation or not, compared to people from other backgrounds (including other 'not like me' backgrounds). I genuinely do believe that it is a cultural trait [per my Cultural Anthropology education] ... it may be part of their "volksgeist", just as our "nobody is going to tell me what to do" individualism is part of the American "volksgeist".As @atpollard cites, it's an accusation being leveled against the (asian subcontinent) Indians (of a Hindi persuasion) by incumbent interests that don't want the competition. It's also an accusation that has been directed towards MANY nations around the Pacific Rim (no need to enumerate them all) as well as almost the entire African continent and the people from there (I wonder why ...).
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
I prefer Int as CPU and Edu as storage/database but LBB8 twisted me that way.
In CT you must have Soc=10 as prerequisite to qualify, and "enlistment" is automatic. Once enlisted, you had to achieve "position" (= "commission roll") in order to take up a posting at your current Soc-level. Promotion would raise your Soc-level by one.
One could presumably choose not to roll for position and be a simple Honor Noble living on one's estate or as a gentleman of independent occupation, or remain a courtier or functionary of another's court, or one might achieve position and become a Landed (proper) or High Noble representing territories at the interplanetary scale or Ceremonial/Rank Noble of significance within the Imperial Bureaucracy.
But CT also had the separate Careers of Bureaucrat and Diplomat which were open to non-Nobles but had significant admission and position bonuses for high Soc, and could grant good Soc increases through service and produced many active and retired Ceremonial/Rank Nobles.
The classic version of this is "Polish jokes". Problem for Poland is that it's stuck in between a few powerful countries and doesn't have much by way of naturally defensible borders -- so it tended throughout history to get overrun from one or the other direction, with the language changing to reflect the latest interlopers. So, Poles tended to be multilingual.To be excessively fair to historical precedents, this particular "accusation" has been deployed and used REPEATEDLY against what we shall respectfully call foreigners who don't look or sound like us.
Now, have them emigrate to the UK and US, where they now have to learn English also. These new immigrants seem not all that fluent in English, so they're seen as intellectually inferior. But that's because English is their second, third, perhaps even fourth language....
Also the ability to use it, though I take it that it's mainly the ability to use it in conventional ways, and to retain information about how to do something, etc.
For example, in MgT2 Astrogation is generally an EDU task, as is maintaining and operating a jump drive, but over-charging a drive to get more performance, or analysing sensor data is Int based, and for science EDU is for known stuff, INT for research into problems.
TNE used fixed Attributes for each skill, and EDU was used for most science, engineering, and ship operation skills - they required knowledge more than innovation. INT was for skills like Tactics, Research (digging up information, not scientific experimental research), and Survival - things that requiring reasoning and analysis. Also, TNE's academic careers improved your EDU, and gave out skills based on EDU, not INT (though either would do as a prerequisite to get into graduate terms).
EDU is book learning, INT is quick thinking, imagination and in TNE also willpower.
Supplement 4: Citizens of the Imperium, says nobles are "Individuals of the upper classes who perform little consistent function, but often have large amounts of ready money." The career is only open to those with Soc 10+, and they get in automatically if they want it. Survival is 3+, with no mods, re-enlistment is 4+, so staying as long as you like is fairly easy. Position is 5+, with a bonus for EDU 9+, so getting a knighthood and Soc B is pretty easy. Promotion is 12+, with a +1 for Int 10+, so advancement is hard.
The cash benefit table is very generous, especially if you have the +1 from retirement (Gambling is not on the nobles' skill tables). The material benefits table hands out high passages, TAS membership, guns and blades and a 1-in-6 chance (high rank not required) of a Yacht. There is no mention of a mortgage on the ship (in fact, in CT the only ship that's mentioned as having a mortgage is the trader a merchant might get).
In CT, those with Soc A can auto entry in the noble career (in Sup 4). Or get bonuses to Navy Comission, Marine [officer] Promotion, Diplomat Entrance and Promotion, Bureaucrat Position; Penalties to Pirate enlistment, Rogue Enlistment.
In terms of improving it...
Skill: Navy, Diplomat
MOB: Navy, Marine, Army, Sailor, Flyer, Bureaucrat, Scientist, Rogue
Promotion: Noble.
Negative Skill: Other
Negative MOB: Pirate
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Not so in my experience. There was a smallish Polish diaspora at the start of the war and many settled in the north east of england. Their descendents are still here now and as geordie as the rest of us. Following Bliar's opening of the borders to unlimited EU migration there was a wave of Romanian and Polish.
I taught Polish students. Only one ever pretended not to be fluent in english, he went home for a couple of years but then came back. By now his friends had all revealed he could speak english very well. Needless to say he "settled down" very quickly after that. Other Polish students that had been through the Polish primary system were much better at maths than the native geordies because their traditional teaching methods were far superior to how math has been taught in england for decades. Every Polish student apart from the earlier mention was in the top set by GCSE time, even if they had struggled with english at first.
The Romanians were a different kettle of fish, they did meet your stereotype, but board rules prevent me discussing them.
and there is always the savant syndrome that has boatloads of knowledge but no way to use it effectively, which could be a way to interpret high education and low intelligence.
Being "not so" was precisely my point. The (false) stereotype began with (mistakenly) using English proficiency as the sole proxy for intelligence, disregarding fluency in languages other than English (and likely multiple languages, to boot).
The point being that Polish immigrants were likely better educated (at least in number of languages spoken) than the host nations' populaces, but the natives couldn't tell -- and wouldn't have wanted to know anyhow.
Badenov
SOC-12
Found another interesting tidbit in CT. Presuming "Marines", as a crew position, ship's defense force on a civilian ship, rate the same pay as Gunners, and using the 'One person to fill two crew positions' option in LBB2 (75% of both salaries, min skills Steward-1, Gun Combat-2), you can have your Stewards pulling double-duty as Marines for no actual difference in pay (3000*.75+1000*.75=3000). But passengers with an idea about trying piracy might think twice if these were their Stewards.
.)
(Pics are from Girls of the Wilds webcomic, not related to space travel at all. Just related to armed butlers.)
.)(Pics are from Girls of the Wilds webcomic, not related to space travel at all. Just related to armed butlers.)
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
Big issues too with SOC levels being unrecognized across cultures/species/governments.
Polish is also an early Americanism for all Slavs, as probably from Casimir Pulaski "The Father of American Cavalry." We have a Pulaski county up north of me here, it's a holiday in Illinois, etc.
I have to admit that I was uncomfortable with a Steward/Security mix before, but after seeing this awesome mention from Girls of the Wilds, I can't help but think that passengers will never know if their Steward is just a Steward or a Steward/Security. Plus it would make for some interesting Character development.
For those who are interested, Girls of the Wilds got mixed reviews in comments, but I liked it enough to read it 5+ times. And yes, those two bodyguards are great characters.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
It's an excuse to keep an eye on, and snoop on the passengers.
A Steward is already doing that, but a Steward/Security has more training/options when dealing with problem passengers.
Spinward Flow
SOC-14 5K
Steward-0 = Cr3000 per 4 weeks
Gun Combat-1 = Cr1000 per 4 weeks
However, in order to qualify for both positions at -1 to the skill(s) involved, you need to increase the skill levels required ... which then increases the crew salary.
Steward/Security = Steward-1/Gun Combat-2 = ((3000*1.1)+(1000*1.1))*0.75 = Cr3300 per 4 weeks
If your purser (+10% salary) is also pulling double duty as security while leading the department with other stewards in it ...
Steward (purser)/Security = Steward-1/Gun Combat-2 = ((3000*1.2)+(1000*1.1))*0.75 = Cr3525 per 4 weeks
Not ... exactly ...
However, Steward/Security DOES make for a compelling case of 2 crew positions for 1 person when deciding crew requirements.
Badenov
SOC-12
The thing about filling two positions is you fill the position at your skill -1, so I wasn't thinking you'd get credit for higher skill in your pay scale. This way does seem a bit less unfair to the actual people, though, since they are coverting two jobs.Steward-0 = Cr3000 per 4 weeks
Gun Combat-1 = Cr1000 per 4 weeks
However, in order to qualify for both positions at -1 to the skill(s) involved, you need to increase the skill levels required ... which then increases the crew salary.
Steward/Security = Steward-1/Gun Combat-2 = ((3000*1.1)+(1000*1.1))*0.75 = Cr3300 per 4 weeks
If your purser (+10% salary) is also pulling double duty as security while leading the department with other stewards in it ...
Steward (purser)/Security = Steward-1/Gun Combat-2 = ((3000*1.2)+(1000*1.1))*0.75 = Cr3525 per 4 weeks
Not ... exactly ...
However, Steward/Security DOES make for a compelling case of 2 crew positions for 1 person when deciding crew requirements.
It's also more likely to get job applicants. Paying Cr3000/month for someone and asking them to do double roles, when they could command Cr3300/month just being a Steward seems unlikely to make for a popular job position. In fact, even though the rules say you can pay them Cr3300/month for doing that double role, I think you'd probably be wanting to pay them a bit more - say another Cr100 or so a month.
