Shooting "up" Tech Levels in High Guard
- Thread starter The Oz
- Start date
The Oz
SOC-14 1K
I just realized I made a mistake.
An equal-cost force of MBs is in fact helpless against a single, properly equipped TL-15 BB.
I forgot about repulsors. Put enough repulsors on a BB (say, thirty or forty 100-ton bays per 100ktons) and it is almost invulnerable to missile salvos from an equal-cost force. I can put 89 factor-9 repulsor bays on my TL-15 BB, reducing the missile armament to 100 bays in the process (plus losing some other stuff). Doing so means that only an average of 2 missile salvos will get past the repulsors, and then those 2 have to get past the factor-9 nuclear damper, and then they have to penetrate the armor. This is a hopeless situation for the MBs: the BB may only be killing one or two MBs per salvo with its reduced armament but the MBs aren't doing anything at all.
There's also the Damage Control rule. 125 MBs cannot kill BB missile batteries as fast as the 200kton BB can repair them.
Now, to use the Damage Control rule the ship must be in the reserve, which implies that someone else is holding the line, but that's what escorts (or fighters) are for.
Of course the MBs can also use Damage Control and they don't need any escorts to hold the line, but they also don't get the same benefit from it that the BB does, since they only get one DC roll and it only raises their missile rating by one, while the BB restores an entire factor-9 bay to full effect with one successful roll.
As for your MBs against a TL14 BB, a lot more of the MB salvos will hit. But TL14 100-ton repulsors can still guarantee a stop against a TL15 missile battery, and the BB still gets to use Damage Control (if it has escorts). However it's really not practical to put enough 100-ton repulsors on a TL14 BB to stop the kind of missile salvos the MBs can throw, and even trying to do it will weaken the BB in enough other ways to make it more vulnerable.
I haven't completed the math yet, but I'd imagine that an equal-cost force of TL15 MBs could defeat a TL14 BB, probably with fairly low losses.
But a repulsor-armed TL15 BB can laugh at them.
An equal-cost force of MBs is in fact helpless against a single, properly equipped TL-15 BB.
I forgot about repulsors. Put enough repulsors on a BB (say, thirty or forty 100-ton bays per 100ktons) and it is almost invulnerable to missile salvos from an equal-cost force. I can put 89 factor-9 repulsor bays on my TL-15 BB, reducing the missile armament to 100 bays in the process (plus losing some other stuff). Doing so means that only an average of 2 missile salvos will get past the repulsors, and then those 2 have to get past the factor-9 nuclear damper, and then they have to penetrate the armor. This is a hopeless situation for the MBs: the BB may only be killing one or two MBs per salvo with its reduced armament but the MBs aren't doing anything at all.
There's also the Damage Control rule. 125 MBs cannot kill BB missile batteries as fast as the 200kton BB can repair them.
Now, to use the Damage Control rule the ship must be in the reserve, which implies that someone else is holding the line, but that's what escorts (or fighters) are for.
Of course the MBs can also use Damage Control and they don't need any escorts to hold the line, but they also don't get the same benefit from it that the BB does, since they only get one DC roll and it only raises their missile rating by one, while the BB restores an entire factor-9 bay to full effect with one successful roll.
As for your MBs against a TL14 BB, a lot more of the MB salvos will hit. But TL14 100-ton repulsors can still guarantee a stop against a TL15 missile battery, and the BB still gets to use Damage Control (if it has escorts). However it's really not practical to put enough 100-ton repulsors on a TL14 BB to stop the kind of missile salvos the MBs can throw, and even trying to do it will weaken the BB in enough other ways to make it more vulnerable.
I haven't completed the math yet, but I'd imagine that an equal-cost force of TL15 MBs could defeat a TL14 BB, probably with fairly low losses.
But a repulsor-armed TL15 BB can laugh at them.
The Oz
SOC-14 1K
I just realized I made a mistake.
An equal-cost force of MBs is in fact helpless against a single, properly equipped TL-15 BB.
I forgot about repulsors. Put enough repulsors on a BB (say, thirty or forty 100-ton bays per 100ktons) and it is almost invulnerable to missile salvos from an equal-cost force. I can put 89 factor-9 repulsor bays on my TL-15 BB, reducing the missile armament to 100 bays in the process (plus losing some other stuff). Doing so means that only an average of 2 missile salvos will get past the repulsors, and then those 2 have to get past the factor-9 nuclear damper, and then they have to penetrate the armor. This is a hopeless situation for the MBs: the BB may only be killing one or two MBs per salvo with its reduced armament but the MBs aren't doing anything at all.
There's also the Damage Control rule. 125 MBs cannot kill BB missile batteries as fast as the 200kton BB can repair them.
Now, to use the Damage Control rule the ship must be in the reserve, which implies that someone else is holding the line, but that's what escorts (or fighters) are for.
Of course the MBs can also use Damage Control and they don't need any escorts to hold the line, but they also don't get the same benefit from it that the BB does, since they only get one DC roll and it only raises their missile rating by one, while the BB restores an entire factor-9 bay to full effect with one successful roll.
As for your MBs against a TL14 BB, a lot more of the MB salvos will hit. But TL14 100-ton repulsors can still guarantee a stop against a TL15 missile battery, and the BB still gets to use Damage Control (if it has escorts). However it's really not practical to put enough 100-ton repulsors on a TL14 BB to stop the kind of missile salvos the MBs can throw, and even trying to do it will weaken the BB in enough other ways to make it more vulnerable.
I haven't completed the math yet, but I'd imagine that an equal-cost force of TL15 MBs could defeat a TL14 BB, probably with fairly low losses.
But a repulsor-armed TL15 BB can laugh at them.
An equal-cost force of MBs is in fact helpless against a single, properly equipped TL-15 BB.
I forgot about repulsors. Put enough repulsors on a BB (say, thirty or forty 100-ton bays per 100ktons) and it is almost invulnerable to missile salvos from an equal-cost force. I can put 89 factor-9 repulsor bays on my TL-15 BB, reducing the missile armament to 100 bays in the process (plus losing some other stuff). Doing so means that only an average of 2 missile salvos will get past the repulsors, and then those 2 have to get past the factor-9 nuclear damper, and then they have to penetrate the armor. This is a hopeless situation for the MBs: the BB may only be killing one or two MBs per salvo with its reduced armament but the MBs aren't doing anything at all.
There's also the Damage Control rule. 125 MBs cannot kill BB missile batteries as fast as the 200kton BB can repair them.
Now, to use the Damage Control rule the ship must be in the reserve, which implies that someone else is holding the line, but that's what escorts (or fighters) are for.
Of course the MBs can also use Damage Control and they don't need any escorts to hold the line, but they also don't get the same benefit from it that the BB does, since they only get one DC roll and it only raises their missile rating by one, while the BB restores an entire factor-9 bay to full effect with one successful roll.
As for your MBs against a TL14 BB, a lot more of the MB salvos will hit. But TL14 100-ton repulsors can still guarantee a stop against a TL15 missile battery, and the BB still gets to use Damage Control (if it has escorts). However it's really not practical to put enough 100-ton repulsors on a TL14 BB to stop the kind of missile salvos the MBs can throw, and even trying to do it will weaken the BB in enough other ways to make it more vulnerable.
I haven't completed the math yet, but I'd imagine that an equal-cost force of TL15 MBs could defeat a TL14 BB, probably with fairly low losses.
But a repulsor-armed TL15 BB can laugh at them.
The Oz
SOC-14 1K
As my very first post showed, TL14 ships only need a 1.4 to 1 edge in numbers to be victorious against TL15 ships, assuming they are both armed with the best meson guns for their TL.
I also did a later comparison of BR vs BB at different TLs, assuming the BRs were armed with the smallest effective meson gun for that TL (effective means that the meson gun had a chance of penetrating the meson screen of the target). Here's what I got:</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Battleriders vs Battleships
BR vs BB Ratio BR stats
TL15 BR vs TL15 BB 1.32 (f-J MG)
TL14 BR vs TL15 BB 3.49 (f-G MG)
TL13 BR vs TL15 BB 3.22 (f-L MG)
TL12 BR vs TL15 BB 10.71 (f-K MG, size L-P)
TL15 BR vs TL14 BB 0.65 (f-J MG)
TL14 BR vs TL14 BB 1.38 (f-G MG)
TL13 BR vs TL14 BB 3.49 (f-E MG)
TL13 BR vs TL14 BB 1.55 (f-L MG)
TL12 BR vs TL14 BB 8.34 (f-D MG, size L-P)
TL15 BR vs TL13 BB 0.26 (f-J MG)
TL14 BR vs TL13 BB 0.7 (f-G MG)
TL13 BR vs TL13 BB 1.13 (f-E MG)
TL12 BR vs TL13 BB 2.73 (f-D MG, size L-P)
TL15 BR vs TL12 BB 0.047 (f-J MG)
TL14 BR vs TL12 BB 0.24 (f-G MG)
TL13 BR vs TL12 BB 0.52 (f-E MG)
TL12 BR vs TL12 BB 1.2 (f-C MG)</pre>[/QUOTE]All the BRs were assumed to be size B to K (in reality most would be in the G to K range), and everyone had Agility-6 and the best computers and meson screens available at their TL.
Ratio is the relative strength the BRs need to overcome the BBs. BR stats lists the meson gun of the BR, and states where the BR size is larger in cases where you just can't get a meson gun of that size into a size L- hull.
To answer your specific question, Henry, TL14 BRs with factor-G meson guns need nearly 3.5 to 1 odds to successfully engage TL15 BB with meson guns. In reality they'd probably need somewhat greater odds since the BBs would also have a lot of missiles to pound the BRs with as well. In fact, that's something that would be true whenever battleriders engage BBs, although higher-TL BRs fighting lower-TL BBs probably don't have as much to worry about.
Note that higher-TL BRs can engage lower-TL BBs at a numerical disadvantage and win, although enemy missile fire might even the odds a little.
I also did a later comparison of BR vs BB at different TLs, assuming the BRs were armed with the smallest effective meson gun for that TL (effective means that the meson gun had a chance of penetrating the meson screen of the target). Here's what I got:</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Battleriders vs Battleships
BR vs BB Ratio BR stats
TL15 BR vs TL15 BB 1.32 (f-J MG)
TL14 BR vs TL15 BB 3.49 (f-G MG)
TL13 BR vs TL15 BB 3.22 (f-L MG)
TL12 BR vs TL15 BB 10.71 (f-K MG, size L-P)
TL15 BR vs TL14 BB 0.65 (f-J MG)
TL14 BR vs TL14 BB 1.38 (f-G MG)
TL13 BR vs TL14 BB 3.49 (f-E MG)
TL13 BR vs TL14 BB 1.55 (f-L MG)
TL12 BR vs TL14 BB 8.34 (f-D MG, size L-P)
TL15 BR vs TL13 BB 0.26 (f-J MG)
TL14 BR vs TL13 BB 0.7 (f-G MG)
TL13 BR vs TL13 BB 1.13 (f-E MG)
TL12 BR vs TL13 BB 2.73 (f-D MG, size L-P)
TL15 BR vs TL12 BB 0.047 (f-J MG)
TL14 BR vs TL12 BB 0.24 (f-G MG)
TL13 BR vs TL12 BB 0.52 (f-E MG)
TL12 BR vs TL12 BB 1.2 (f-C MG)</pre>[/QUOTE]All the BRs were assumed to be size B to K (in reality most would be in the G to K range), and everyone had Agility-6 and the best computers and meson screens available at their TL.
Ratio is the relative strength the BRs need to overcome the BBs. BR stats lists the meson gun of the BR, and states where the BR size is larger in cases where you just can't get a meson gun of that size into a size L- hull.
To answer your specific question, Henry, TL14 BRs with factor-G meson guns need nearly 3.5 to 1 odds to successfully engage TL15 BB with meson guns. In reality they'd probably need somewhat greater odds since the BBs would also have a lot of missiles to pound the BRs with as well. In fact, that's something that would be true whenever battleriders engage BBs, although higher-TL BRs fighting lower-TL BBs probably don't have as much to worry about.
Note that higher-TL BRs can engage lower-TL BBs at a numerical disadvantage and win, although enemy missile fire might even the odds a little.
The Oz
SOC-14 1K
As my very first post showed, TL14 ships only need a 1.4 to 1 edge in numbers to be victorious against TL15 ships, assuming they are both armed with the best meson guns for their TL.
I also did a later comparison of BR vs BB at different TLs, assuming the BRs were armed with the smallest effective meson gun for that TL (effective means that the meson gun had a chance of penetrating the meson screen of the target). Here's what I got:</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Battleriders vs Battleships
BR vs BB Ratio BR stats
TL15 BR vs TL15 BB 1.32 (f-J MG)
TL14 BR vs TL15 BB 3.49 (f-G MG)
TL13 BR vs TL15 BB 3.22 (f-L MG)
TL12 BR vs TL15 BB 10.71 (f-K MG, size L-P)
TL15 BR vs TL14 BB 0.65 (f-J MG)
TL14 BR vs TL14 BB 1.38 (f-G MG)
TL13 BR vs TL14 BB 3.49 (f-E MG)
TL13 BR vs TL14 BB 1.55 (f-L MG)
TL12 BR vs TL14 BB 8.34 (f-D MG, size L-P)
TL15 BR vs TL13 BB 0.26 (f-J MG)
TL14 BR vs TL13 BB 0.7 (f-G MG)
TL13 BR vs TL13 BB 1.13 (f-E MG)
TL12 BR vs TL13 BB 2.73 (f-D MG, size L-P)
TL15 BR vs TL12 BB 0.047 (f-J MG)
TL14 BR vs TL12 BB 0.24 (f-G MG)
TL13 BR vs TL12 BB 0.52 (f-E MG)
TL12 BR vs TL12 BB 1.2 (f-C MG)</pre>[/QUOTE]All the BRs were assumed to be size B to K (in reality most would be in the G to K range), and everyone had Agility-6 and the best computers and meson screens available at their TL.
Ratio is the relative strength the BRs need to overcome the BBs. BR stats lists the meson gun of the BR, and states where the BR size is larger in cases where you just can't get a meson gun of that size into a size L- hull.
To answer your specific question, Henry, TL14 BRs with factor-G meson guns need nearly 3.5 to 1 odds to successfully engage TL15 BB with meson guns. In reality they'd probably need somewhat greater odds since the BBs would also have a lot of missiles to pound the BRs with as well. In fact, that's something that would be true whenever battleriders engage BBs, although higher-TL BRs fighting lower-TL BBs probably don't have as much to worry about.
Note that higher-TL BRs can engage lower-TL BBs at a numerical disadvantage and win, although enemy missile fire might even the odds a little.
I also did a later comparison of BR vs BB at different TLs, assuming the BRs were armed with the smallest effective meson gun for that TL (effective means that the meson gun had a chance of penetrating the meson screen of the target). Here's what I got:</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Battleriders vs Battleships
BR vs BB Ratio BR stats
TL15 BR vs TL15 BB 1.32 (f-J MG)
TL14 BR vs TL15 BB 3.49 (f-G MG)
TL13 BR vs TL15 BB 3.22 (f-L MG)
TL12 BR vs TL15 BB 10.71 (f-K MG, size L-P)
TL15 BR vs TL14 BB 0.65 (f-J MG)
TL14 BR vs TL14 BB 1.38 (f-G MG)
TL13 BR vs TL14 BB 3.49 (f-E MG)
TL13 BR vs TL14 BB 1.55 (f-L MG)
TL12 BR vs TL14 BB 8.34 (f-D MG, size L-P)
TL15 BR vs TL13 BB 0.26 (f-J MG)
TL14 BR vs TL13 BB 0.7 (f-G MG)
TL13 BR vs TL13 BB 1.13 (f-E MG)
TL12 BR vs TL13 BB 2.73 (f-D MG, size L-P)
TL15 BR vs TL12 BB 0.047 (f-J MG)
TL14 BR vs TL12 BB 0.24 (f-G MG)
TL13 BR vs TL12 BB 0.52 (f-E MG)
TL12 BR vs TL12 BB 1.2 (f-C MG)</pre>[/QUOTE]All the BRs were assumed to be size B to K (in reality most would be in the G to K range), and everyone had Agility-6 and the best computers and meson screens available at their TL.
Ratio is the relative strength the BRs need to overcome the BBs. BR stats lists the meson gun of the BR, and states where the BR size is larger in cases where you just can't get a meson gun of that size into a size L- hull.
To answer your specific question, Henry, TL14 BRs with factor-G meson guns need nearly 3.5 to 1 odds to successfully engage TL15 BB with meson guns. In reality they'd probably need somewhat greater odds since the BBs would also have a lot of missiles to pound the BRs with as well. In fact, that's something that would be true whenever battleriders engage BBs, although higher-TL BRs fighting lower-TL BBs probably don't have as much to worry about.
Note that higher-TL BRs can engage lower-TL BBs at a numerical disadvantage and win, although enemy missile fire might even the odds a little.
The Oz
SOC-14 1K
I should have phrased that as "a 1.4 to 1 advantage in numbers =of large spinal meson guns= to be victorious" and also qualified it as not including the effects of other weapons.
How did you calculate the 3-1 figure? How did others? I might have done something wrong, but while it's true that TL15 spinal meson guns are about twice as effective when shooting at TL14 targets than TL14 spinal meson guns are shooting at TL15 targets (as my first post shows), overcoming that technical superiority requires only a 1.4 to 1 numerical advantage when applying Lanchester's N-Squared Law.
Now when other weapons are included (especially missiles, where the TL15 weapons have a 12 to 1 superiority) you might indeed find that TL14 forces need a 3 to 1 numerical advantage, maybe even more.
How did you calculate the 3-1 figure? How did others? I might have done something wrong, but while it's true that TL15 spinal meson guns are about twice as effective when shooting at TL14 targets than TL14 spinal meson guns are shooting at TL15 targets (as my first post shows), overcoming that technical superiority requires only a 1.4 to 1 numerical advantage when applying Lanchester's N-Squared Law.
Now when other weapons are included (especially missiles, where the TL15 weapons have a 12 to 1 superiority) you might indeed find that TL14 forces need a 3 to 1 numerical advantage, maybe even more.
The Oz
SOC-14 1K
I should have phrased that as "a 1.4 to 1 advantage in numbers =of large spinal meson guns= to be victorious" and also qualified it as not including the effects of other weapons.
How did you calculate the 3-1 figure? How did others? I might have done something wrong, but while it's true that TL15 spinal meson guns are about twice as effective when shooting at TL14 targets than TL14 spinal meson guns are shooting at TL15 targets (as my first post shows), overcoming that technical superiority requires only a 1.4 to 1 numerical advantage when applying Lanchester's N-Squared Law.
Now when other weapons are included (especially missiles, where the TL15 weapons have a 12 to 1 superiority) you might indeed find that TL14 forces need a 3 to 1 numerical advantage, maybe even more.
How did you calculate the 3-1 figure? How did others? I might have done something wrong, but while it's true that TL15 spinal meson guns are about twice as effective when shooting at TL14 targets than TL14 spinal meson guns are shooting at TL15 targets (as my first post shows), overcoming that technical superiority requires only a 1.4 to 1 numerical advantage when applying Lanchester's N-Squared Law.
Now when other weapons are included (especially missiles, where the TL15 weapons have a 12 to 1 superiority) you might indeed find that TL14 forces need a 3 to 1 numerical advantage, maybe even more.
mctesla
SOC-10
Great analysis guys! This brings me to Oz's question:
It make me wonder just what gives the Zhos (or the Vargr, and especially the Swordies) the confidence to attack the 3rd Imperium.
To turn it around: why doesn't the Imperium simply take Known Space (or at least the Solomani Sphere)? They certainly don't have to worry about space superiority...
They can also outbuild everyone else, by a LOT (based on Anthony's GURPS based analysis.
Personally, I question whether the Imperials could have taken the Solomani Sphere during the Rim war, because many of the REALLY good worlds are in the Solomani Rim sector, and I suspect that they could have been outbuilt by the Sollies.
I know, I know, it's just a game.
It make me wonder just what gives the Zhos (or the Vargr, and especially the Swordies) the confidence to attack the 3rd Imperium.
To turn it around: why doesn't the Imperium simply take Known Space (or at least the Solomani Sphere)? They certainly don't have to worry about space superiority...
They can also outbuild everyone else, by a LOT (based on Anthony's GURPS based analysis.
Personally, I question whether the Imperials could have taken the Solomani Sphere during the Rim war, because many of the REALLY good worlds are in the Solomani Rim sector, and I suspect that they could have been outbuilt by the Sollies.
I know, I know, it's just a game.
mctesla
SOC-10
Great analysis guys! This brings me to Oz's question:
It make me wonder just what gives the Zhos (or the Vargr, and especially the Swordies) the confidence to attack the 3rd Imperium.
To turn it around: why doesn't the Imperium simply take Known Space (or at least the Solomani Sphere)? They certainly don't have to worry about space superiority...
They can also outbuild everyone else, by a LOT (based on Anthony's GURPS based analysis.
Personally, I question whether the Imperials could have taken the Solomani Sphere during the Rim war, because many of the REALLY good worlds are in the Solomani Rim sector, and I suspect that they could have been outbuilt by the Sollies.
I know, I know, it's just a game.
It make me wonder just what gives the Zhos (or the Vargr, and especially the Swordies) the confidence to attack the 3rd Imperium.
To turn it around: why doesn't the Imperium simply take Known Space (or at least the Solomani Sphere)? They certainly don't have to worry about space superiority...
They can also outbuild everyone else, by a LOT (based on Anthony's GURPS based analysis.
Personally, I question whether the Imperials could have taken the Solomani Sphere during the Rim war, because many of the REALLY good worlds are in the Solomani Rim sector, and I suspect that they could have been outbuilt by the Sollies.
I know, I know, it's just a game.
The Oz
SOC-14 1K
My guess is that the Imperium's expansion halted initially because of the Civil Wars, and afterwards because it was felt the Imperium had reached the largest size that could be managed with the communication delays of J-3/J-4 couriers.
Now, this leads to an interesting surmise: one reason the Zhos have been so aggressive is because they understand psychology well enough to realize that as the Imperium extends its J-6 courier system communications will be eased to the point where expansion once again becomes practical and the Zhos are engaging in some pre-emptive strikes to push back the starting line for the eventual Imperial offensive.
Getting back to the subject of shooting "up" the tech levels, I now see that house rules intended to make big ships viable in the face of meson guns have an unintended side effect of making it =harder= for lower TL forces to fight higher TL forces. Under strict HG, lower TL forces can deploy lots of small meson guns and keep hoping for one lucky penetration because that one penetration will be the end of whatever ship was unlucky. If that effect is reduced/eliminated then meson guns just become another weapon where the higher TL forces have the edge.
Now, this leads to an interesting surmise: one reason the Zhos have been so aggressive is because they understand psychology well enough to realize that as the Imperium extends its J-6 courier system communications will be eased to the point where expansion once again becomes practical and the Zhos are engaging in some pre-emptive strikes to push back the starting line for the eventual Imperial offensive.
Getting back to the subject of shooting "up" the tech levels, I now see that house rules intended to make big ships viable in the face of meson guns have an unintended side effect of making it =harder= for lower TL forces to fight higher TL forces. Under strict HG, lower TL forces can deploy lots of small meson guns and keep hoping for one lucky penetration because that one penetration will be the end of whatever ship was unlucky. If that effect is reduced/eliminated then meson guns just become another weapon where the higher TL forces have the edge.
The Oz
SOC-14 1K
My guess is that the Imperium's expansion halted initially because of the Civil Wars, and afterwards because it was felt the Imperium had reached the largest size that could be managed with the communication delays of J-3/J-4 couriers.
Now, this leads to an interesting surmise: one reason the Zhos have been so aggressive is because they understand psychology well enough to realize that as the Imperium extends its J-6 courier system communications will be eased to the point where expansion once again becomes practical and the Zhos are engaging in some pre-emptive strikes to push back the starting line for the eventual Imperial offensive.
Getting back to the subject of shooting "up" the tech levels, I now see that house rules intended to make big ships viable in the face of meson guns have an unintended side effect of making it =harder= for lower TL forces to fight higher TL forces. Under strict HG, lower TL forces can deploy lots of small meson guns and keep hoping for one lucky penetration because that one penetration will be the end of whatever ship was unlucky. If that effect is reduced/eliminated then meson guns just become another weapon where the higher TL forces have the edge.
Now, this leads to an interesting surmise: one reason the Zhos have been so aggressive is because they understand psychology well enough to realize that as the Imperium extends its J-6 courier system communications will be eased to the point where expansion once again becomes practical and the Zhos are engaging in some pre-emptive strikes to push back the starting line for the eventual Imperial offensive.
Getting back to the subject of shooting "up" the tech levels, I now see that house rules intended to make big ships viable in the face of meson guns have an unintended side effect of making it =harder= for lower TL forces to fight higher TL forces. Under strict HG, lower TL forces can deploy lots of small meson guns and keep hoping for one lucky penetration because that one penetration will be the end of whatever ship was unlucky. If that effect is reduced/eliminated then meson guns just become another weapon where the higher TL forces have the edge.
