Should I Stay or Should I Go Now???

[Allensh]

My observation is that, generally, the old CT fans aren't that impressed with MGT. The people who currently play CT don't seem to be MGT fans. (Of course, there are a couple of exceptions, as there alwasy is.)

Those Traveller players playing other additions of Traveller seem to like MGT and are migrating that way.

If you were looking at a pie chart that represented the entire Traveller playing population, my observation is that the largest wedge (the CT wedge) is staying approximately the same size while the smaller pie pieces are filling in the MGT wedge.

Given the sales of the Traveller Core Book overall and the known fact that people who post on these message boards reflect only a SMALL percentage of the people who actually play an RPG, I would say that you have no basis for making this statement.

Allen

 

[rust]

My observation is that, generally, the old CT fans aren't that impressed with MGT.
...
Those Traveller players playing other additions of Traveller seem to like MGT and are migrating that way.

This is not at all what I hear and read. Most of the old CT fans I know like
MGT very much and are indeed "migrating that way", while the GT players
at least for the moment prefer to continue with GURPS (mainly because ma-
ny of them have only recently started with Interstellar Wars).

 

[Supplement Four]

Given the sales of the Traveller Core Book overall and the known fact that people who post on these message boards reflect only a SMALL percentage of the people who actually play an RPG, I would say that you have no basis for making this statement.

It's a guess, of course. And, I'm judging by the statements I read on this board and Mongoose's.

Figure that CT comprises about 40% of the total number of people playing Traveller. The other versions slice up the other 60% of the pie.

We have no way of stating cut and dried fact, of course. This is only opinion here. But, if we were betting on it, I'd lay my cold hard cash down on the bet that says CT remains about 40% of the Traveller playing population while MGT is cannibalizing from the other versions.

I think GT, T20, MT, and TNE are losing players to MGT. THero never had a lot of players to beging with. And, MGT is probably picking up some new-to-Traveller players. That's where the sales are coming from.

There will be a few CT-to-MGT converts, of course, but the vast majority of CT players are sticking with CT, from what I've seen.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

Personally, I like the Mongoose rules. To me, it feels like a good updated version of the LBBs.

Which is like having a good updated version of Betamax. Yes, it's better than the original, but that's been obsolete for decades. Compared to MT, TNE, T4, GT, and T20, MGT is pretty pathetic. It isn't *bad*, it just isn't very good.

Currently, I use a mix of CT, MT, and T4. I really wanted MGT to be good enough overall for me to finally dump those and use it instead, but there's really nothing in it that's good enough to replace what I use now.

Even though I don't play them, I own all the TNE, GT and T20 stuff, and frequently refer to them for background info and art references, but again there's nothing in MGT I can use.

I'm actually angry at Mongoose, because they've thrown away the opportunity to bring Traveller truly into the 21st Century and give us something that's superior to everything that's gone before. Instead, it's just...meh. Dull, shallow, uninspiring, and actually broken in several places.

 

[mbrinkhues]

This is not at all what I hear and read. Most of the old CT fans I know like
MGT very much and are indeed "migrating that way", while the GT players
at least for the moment prefer to continue with GURPS (mainly because ma-
ny of them have only recently started with Interstellar Wars).

Not all of them. I for one will abandon GT form MGT. I never liked the "compressed" techscale and I do have some problems with the "perfect Empire" they show as well as the fact that Strephi lives past 1116.

 

[mbrinkhues]

Which is like having a good updated version of Betamax. Yes, it's better than the original, but that's been obsolete for decades. Compared to MT, TNE, T4, GT, and T20, MGT is pretty pathetic. It isn't *bad*, it just isn't very good.

Currently, I use a mix of CT, MT, and T4. I really wanted MGT to be good enough overall for me to finally dump those and use it instead, but there's really nothing in it that's good enough to replace what I use now.

Even though I don't play them, I own all the TNE, GT and T20 stuff, and frequently refer to them for background info and art references, but again there's nothing in MGT I can use.

I'm actually angry at Mongoose, because they've thrown away the opportunity to bring Traveller truly into the 21st Century and give us something that's superior to everything that's gone before. Instead, it's just...meh. Dull, shallow, uninspiring, and actually broken in several places.

As an old hand myself I must strongly disagree.

+ The character generation process alone makes this game better than CT and MT, giving me a wider variety of characters and character variants (14 full-scale careers compared to MTs 4 major and IIRC 8 minor, less detailed character classes)

+ Using Techscales and notations based on the CT/MT system rather than the "new wheels" of GT makes it easier to use most material (except GT) for this game

+ Not being D20 based will make it easier to find players over here than T20 did. DnD in Space doesn't get much of a chance to be played here and therefor T20 never can show where it did better than DnD (Armor etc)

+ TNE is a solid system but it's tech is so far away from the CT/MT baseline (even farther away than GT) that it is a totally different game. Fuel-based engines and far larger crews make for a different feel even when using CT/MT supplements

 

[Vargas]

I'm actually angry at Mongoose, because they've thrown away the opportunity to bring Traveller truly into the 21st Century and give us something that's superior to everything that's gone before. Instead, it's just...meh. Dull, shallow, uninspiring, and actually broken in several places.

I think Mongoose had a lot of tough choices to make in terms of who to please and who to piss off. Part of me almost respects that, but not enough to buy MGT (as I said upthread).

 

[Andrew Boulton]

Oh, I bought it, I just can't use it.

I'm hoping the supplements will be better.

 

[Vargas]

Oh, I bought it, I just can't use it.

Ah, my mistake.

I'm hoping the supplements will be better.

I'd like to be clear that I wish Mongoose no ill will nor to prejudge its products but I remember having similar hopes about GT and often finding either the same information regurgitated from earlier editions or new material which clearly wasn't Traveller-grade. (Valkyrie I'm looking at you). Perhaps I will be pleasantly surprised.

 

[Supplement Four]

I'm hoping the supplements will be better.

I may buy some MGT supplements as well, especially adventures. The nice thing about MGT (the best thing, imo) is that MGT is easily converted to CT. Judging by the adventures I've seen in S&P, I won't even spend any time converting--just eyeball it and move on.

So, as much as I dislike MGT I'll probably mine some of it for CT games. MGT is certainly the easiest Traveller version to convert to CT since MT came out.

 

[robject]

MGT is a good restatement of Classic Traveller. It has helpful innovations and updates but largely sticks to CT content, and appears to be doing well as a result.

People who left Traveller in the 1980s will be able to pick up this book and say, "yeah!". Kids who cut their teeth on D20 will be able to pick up this book and say, "wow, something fresh". Referees of any stripe who want to run Traveller games now face less resistance (there seems to be some measure of disdain for people who "hang on" to "outdated, out of print" material).

As Daryen said, any strong biases you bring are your own, including liking Traveller in general. Beyond that, as a game, MGT is fine.

Assuming MGT sticks to its ten-year-plan, I can see most of the Traveller community using MGT more, G:T at the same level, and legacy versions less. That's the closest thing we'll get to a re-uniting of the Traveller fan base, and that's fine by me. As the Burrito Principle states, 80% of the meat is in 20% of the burrito.

If you are looking for a reason to like it, you will most likely end up liking it. If you are looking for a reason to dislike it, you will most likely end up disliking it. It has its issues, but as the current standard bearer for Traveller, we could have gotten a lot worse.

If you have your favorite version of Traveller already, this is very unlikely to change your mind. In such a case, just don't bother. It will only annoy you and piss you off.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

MGT is certainly the easiest Traveller version to convert to CT since MT came out.

T4 stuff was pretty compatible, and T20 often included CT stats.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

MGT is a good restatement of Classic Traveller.

Which is precisely the problem - CT doesn't need restating. MT gave us an improved version 20 years ago, and did a far better job.

Every version of Traveller is still available, so MGT is competing directly with them all, which means it has to be better - or at least no worse - than them all, and it just isn't.

There are some nice bits in it, but overall it's very weak.

 

[Allensh]

Which is precisely the problem - CT doesn't need restating. MT gave us an improved version 20 years ago, and did a far better job.

Every version of Traveller is still available, so MGT is competing directly with them all, which means it has to be better - or at least no worse - than them all, and it just isn't.

There are some nice bits in it, but overall it's very weak.

I haven't seen Megatraveller on a store shelf as a new product in a long time. yes, its available in PDF format...lots of old games are, and they sell maybe a fraction of what a book in a store might.

Allen

 

[atpollard]

I haven't seen Megatraveller on a store shelf as a new product in a long time. yes, its available in PDF format...lots of old games are, and they sell maybe a fraction of what a book in a store might.

Allen

Same holds true for Mongoose Traveller in my corner of the world.
I've never seen any Mongoose game product, ever.

 

[Eisenmann]

Which is precisely the problem - CT doesn't need restating. MT gave us an improved version 20 years ago, and did a far better job.

Every version of Traveller is still available, so MGT is competing directly with them all, which means it has to be better - or at least no worse - than them all, and it just isn't.

There are some nice bits in it, but overall it's very weak.

Huh.

Mongoose's book is better than CT and much nicer than Mega-Traveller. Hands down. No question.

Oh wait, I didn't couch that as opinion?

 

[Eisenmann]

Same holds true for Mongoose Traveller in my corner of the world.
I've never seen any Mongoose game product, ever.

Interestingly enough my FLGS that doesn't carry RPG material carries A LOT of Mongoose's wargaming and other gaming stuff.

My local Barnes & Noble that has an anemic D&D section has Mongoose's Traveller in stock. I about had a heart attack because I'm in the middle of nowhere.

It's a two hour drive west to the nearest store that I know of that has older Traveller material available and a three and a half hour drive east.

 

[aramis]

You're online. You have access to the net. Therefore you have access to Drive Through RPG (drivethroughrpg.com), and thus to MT, TNE, and T4 products in e-reprint.

You might not realize you do, but you do.

Which is why, given th net access, I've stated that Mongoose's goal to unite traveller fandom is doomed; unless and until MWM pulls all other editions, it will be a divided market.

Then again, the one part of Mongoose Traveller I most like is the one part NOT in the SRD... CGen tables.

 

[Eisenmann]

Wow. There is a bad vibe* around here. Adios amigas.

*nihilistically condescending

 

[aramis]

Not really a bad vibe; MGT is solid, a workhorse.

Their stated goal, however, is unrealistic.