Skill Bay
- Thread starter kilemall
- Start date
(grin) indeed, that's the whole point. if it's routine, why is it an issue?
it's just the starting definition for my task system - skill level 1 allows routine accomplishment of routine tasks. pilot 1 allows routine piloting of a ship to orbit and to the landing pad. pilot 1 trying to land on a mountain side during a category 3 storm will have issues, but pilot 3 has a very good (but not guaranteed) chance of pulling it off.
pilot 1 (+1) vs very difficult task (9+) succeeds on 8+ ....
pilot 3 (+5) vs very difficult task (9+) succeeds on 4+ ....
Exactly, Fly. It's routine...
Noun: a sequence of actions regularly followed; a fixed program.
Adjective: performed as part of a regular procedure rather than for a special reason.
... yet they insist on rolling. It's mind boggling.
It's also, as Mike points out, innumerate. Take his example of jumping and say the pilot, navigator, and engineer all each need to make a roll that has a 90% success rate. Easy right? Well, all three will only make those rolls 72.9% of the time and thus fail to jump more than one time out of every four attempts.
And what will their solution be? That they shouldn't roll for routine tasks?
Nah.
The innumerates whose first RPG was Super Mario Bros. will instead call for more skills, more skill levels, more DMs, more feats, more gimmicks, more, more, more because it will never occur to them that they shouldn't be rolling for routine tasks.
"Drat! I wasn't able to flip the light switch. There ought to be light switch flipping skill."
Quit with the hyperbole, please. It's hardly "mind boggling"...
the task system in various editions is built for skills used "in a stressful situation."
A routine task in a stressful situation does merit a roll.
Likewise, quality of results may be determined by rolling, even when the task is "Can't be failed."
Note that the DGP task system is built upon the idea that the labels are for skill 1, stat 5-9, total DM+2, while taking extra time (essentially a DM+4). Also note: Nat 2 is NOT auto-fail. Yes, the default assumption is a bit of rush, while a lot of rush hurries it further, and makes it much harder.
Noting the default assumption is extra time, effectively, a skill 1 stat 1 character cannot fail a routine task in DGP-CT/MT, nor in 2300. DM+2, on a TN shifted from 7+ to 3+ on (CT: 2d6+2; 2300: 1d10+2)...
@Mike - real world? adults DO learn slower than kids. Lots of stuff on that in the professional educational literature. EXTREMELY well documented.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I agree with the consensus interpretation that if it's a stressful situation then it isn't routine. Requiring rolling for routine tasks on 2d means failure way beyond design intent, especially if compounded by requiring several 'routine' rolls to achieve something. It's pretty basic maths.
Try this though experiment if relevant - when was the last time you failed a routine driving task? Or how many planes fall out of the sky because the crew fail their routine rolls?
And @Aramis - note I said younger adults compared with older adults - NOT kids with adults. I am well aware that children are learning machines.
Try this though experiment if relevant - when was the last time you failed a routine driving task? Or how many planes fall out of the sky because the crew fail their routine rolls?
And @Aramis - note I said younger adults compared with older adults - NOT kids with adults. I am well aware that children are learning machines.
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The drop-off begins at age 14, slows at 25, and continues downhill the rest of life. Neuroplasticity never stabilizes...
Would this be the place to insert a plug for Rule 68A?
(where 'routine' falls below '6' on '68A')
However, I think Aramis makes a valid point about MT and routine tasks. Driving to the store at 35 mph is a routine task and requires no roll if you have at least skill-0. (If you were born and raised on a water world and this was the first time you ever operated a wheeled vehicle, then it might not be a routine task for you).
As a routine task a roll is not required. However, this time there are two passengers in the back seat of your car. One is attempting to detonate a bomb and your security officer is attempting to wrestle the detonator out of his hand. Since you are driving a taxi, there is a plexiglass screen between the front and the back, so the activities in the back do not actually affect your operation of the vehicle. It is still a routine task to drive from point A to point B at a normal rate of speed. However, the stressful situation happening in the back seat has a tendency to distract you and the referee would not seem unreasonable to require a roll for a routine task under the circumstances. A driver-0 is far more lilely to be distracted from the routine task and make an error than a driver-4.
Failing the roll can also be adjusted by the circumstances, so a failure does not necessisarily mean that the car drives off a bridge and everyone dies in a Holywood FX explosion, it could just mean you run a stop sign and a LL check indicates if a police car saw and is following you to give you a ticket.
My character needs to learn Demolitions and FGMP-14.
The Navy was adamant that I could not practice on the ship.
You couldn't prove it from page 3.
However, 68A suggestion withdrawn. (I'll try to play nice.)
From a starship design perspective, I prefer to allocate exactly half the required CT space (2 dT per stateroom) to the actual room and pool the rest into a flexible space that can be fitted with whatever living spaces the designer wishes. So that includes common gathering areas, eating knooks, galleys, libraries ... or a training booth if you would like.
It is as valid a use of living space as any other.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
I'm more inclined towards a points system, then I can decide if and how I want to handicap a character.
And with a points system, you can gradually increase skills or resources available, easier for a starting out character as gaining levels becomes increasingly difficult.
And with a points system, you can gradually increase skills or resources available, easier for a starting out character as gaining levels becomes increasingly difficult.
I'm definitely not the guy to speak about how many dTons this-or-that. But I will say that the idea of having a separate, purpose-built ( or adjusted ) space for different activities resonates with my experience.
Of course it is possible to do so many different things in that space where you sleep. I -could- study there, but what seems to work well for me ( and so the idea has currency in the game world for me ) is having that set-aside room to tinker, meditate, paint, or whatever. The act of going somewhere else, someplace either purposefully set aside and built out or maybe just other than my rack, seems to help with the idea of making progress in a skill or hobby I was banging on. Even if that "somewhere else"is across the passageway. Different place, different frame of mind.
Of course it is possible to do so many different things in that space where you sleep. I -could- study there, but what seems to work well for me ( and so the idea has currency in the game world for me ) is having that set-aside room to tinker, meditate, paint, or whatever. The act of going somewhere else, someplace either purposefully set aside and built out or maybe just other than my rack, seems to help with the idea of making progress in a skill or hobby I was banging on. Even if that "somewhere else"is across the passageway. Different place, different frame of mind.
Zactly.
Plus a galley is not a fresher is not a common area. Different areas for different tasks with equipment specific to the function. I'm highlighting the skill bay for the character improvement function, or even just training for a mission.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
This is what A13 has to say about fixtures and fittings on the sub-liner:
Wait there is more, the details about a Traveller stateroom:
What I like about your skill area idea is that by spending money you get a bonus to skill development - I would make the dedication throw a tad easier. This ties in nicely with the bit at the end of the experience section about referee's coming up with alternative methods for character characteristic and skill development.
Note that this is all fluff, there is no lounge module in LBB2 construction.
Wait there is more, the details about a Traveller stateroom:
What I like about your skill area idea is that by spending money you get a bonus to skill development - I would make the dedication throw a tad easier. This ties in nicely with the bit at the end of the experience section about referee's coming up with alternative methods for character characteristic and skill development.
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Galleys are often open to the dining space on small ships on the water; when they aren't, such as on the Fremantle Class (RAN, no longer used), they open to crew space through a serving window.
It's worth noting the RAN's Armidale class - the Aussie show Sea Patrol shot a few seasons on one (well, actually, 2 per season), and just about made the galley a character itself...
it's about 2.5x4 or 2.5x5m workspaces and stowage on 3 sides, door at one end. over one area of workspace is a roll-up door, through which meals are served. note that the crew don't have a proper mess bay - they have some spaces for lounge-type use, but those are not dedicated for eating. Likewise, the officers wardroom. So, the mess facilities are really just the kitchen, with crew eating in hall, in the rec room, and even on station.
Many commercial fishing vessels, the mess is the common lounge as well as having the kitchen at one end. Many separate the galley only by a service bar... as in, a place to put things for the crew to grab.
And, when you see them on Deadliest Catch, they look far more spacious than they feel while aboard.
I've spent time on one freighter... as you open the hatch from the passageway, you see the kitchen on the far end of the compartment, and two booths on the near end, both opening to the center and facing each other.Each booth was about 1.5x3m, and the kitchen was about 4x2.5m. Tight, and cramped. Kitchen had two sinks, a fridge, an oven, a range, a microwave, and a coffee urn in a built-in frame. (The urn itself could be removed to wash it... if one dared.) There was no "prep-table" space... for that, you either used a booth table or laid a cookie sheet or cutting board on top of the range.
I expect ships in Traveller to be similar - the galley, if it exists as a separate space, opens onto a major passageway and/or into the common room. If not, it's just built into a wall or two of the common room. After all, if space is at a premium, making the galley a tunnel means the floor space of the walkway isn't available for other uses.
And given that you can fit a rather impressively functional galley into 1.5x0.5x2.5 m, including pull-out/fold-down prep/cutting tables, and a single floor to ceiling roll-door can secure the whole mess (pun intended) for when the steward isn't using it...
It's worth noting the RAN's Armidale class - the Aussie show Sea Patrol shot a few seasons on one (well, actually, 2 per season), and just about made the galley a character itself...
it's about 2.5x4 or 2.5x5m workspaces and stowage on 3 sides, door at one end. over one area of workspace is a roll-up door, through which meals are served. note that the crew don't have a proper mess bay - they have some spaces for lounge-type use, but those are not dedicated for eating. Likewise, the officers wardroom. So, the mess facilities are really just the kitchen, with crew eating in hall, in the rec room, and even on station.
Many commercial fishing vessels, the mess is the common lounge as well as having the kitchen at one end. Many separate the galley only by a service bar... as in, a place to put things for the crew to grab.
And, when you see them on Deadliest Catch, they look far more spacious than they feel while aboard.
I've spent time on one freighter... as you open the hatch from the passageway, you see the kitchen on the far end of the compartment, and two booths on the near end, both opening to the center and facing each other.Each booth was about 1.5x3m, and the kitchen was about 4x2.5m. Tight, and cramped. Kitchen had two sinks, a fridge, an oven, a range, a microwave, and a coffee urn in a built-in frame. (The urn itself could be removed to wash it... if one dared.) There was no "prep-table" space... for that, you either used a booth table or laid a cookie sheet or cutting board on top of the range.
I expect ships in Traveller to be similar - the galley, if it exists as a separate space, opens onto a major passageway and/or into the common room. If not, it's just built into a wall or two of the common room. After all, if space is at a premium, making the galley a tunnel means the floor space of the walkway isn't available for other uses.
And given that you can fit a rather impressively functional galley into 1.5x0.5x2.5 m, including pull-out/fold-down prep/cutting tables, and a single floor to ceiling roll-door can secure the whole mess (pun intended) for when the steward isn't using it...
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
There is a name for all these areas in CT: "Staterooms".
MgT and, I assume, T4+ has rules for Libraries and more physical Training Facilities, and other Common Areas.
MgT and, I assume, T4+ has rules for Libraries and more physical Training Facilities, and other Common Areas.
Ya, I get that it comes out of the stateroom budget. This is more about carving out that space in floorplans, with an option to do better.
Farsighted organizations and players with long term characters may invest in them, a modest outlay compared to even the most paltry weapons fit. Others won't.
The other reason to do it is to provide another 'set' for characters to interact on.
For the space budget minded, one might consider setting aside 1 dton worth of stateroom space along the edge of a cargo bay, and whatever empty space is available for shipping becomes the play/train area.
