2 rolls of 5+ and 2 rolls of 7+ is correct.
30/36 x 21/36 x 30/36 x 21/36 = 0.2363 = about 24% = < 1 in 4 chance of passing
Skill Certification- A 68A Game Option
- Thread starter kilemall
- Start date
2 rolls of 5+ and 2 rolls of 7+ is correct.
30/36 x 21/36 x 30/36 x 21/36 = 0.2363 = about 24% = < 1 in 4 chance of passing
pendragonman
Absent Friends Margrave
Stiff. Not sure that was the intention of the OP
I like that ... good repurposing of the existing tables!
Several passes with this seems to suggest to me more like 40%.
III and IV are supposed to be harder, hence the fourth roll. High risk/reward.
But let's say the math is right on the probability of sequenced rolls. That is too low for III, but not necessarily IV.
Two ways to go.
Perhaps reduce the Class III to 3 5+ rolls and one 7+. That should boost us close to 50%.
The other way would be to allow character mods to the rolls. I was trying to avoid that.
I would use EDU as the prime stat for the Written and Oral portions, and INT or appropriate physical mod for Simulation and Intern.
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heh. "before you take what we teach you and try to sell it to american airlines ... you gotta get by me first."
the way around that is in-house training. no business survives that trains people who then transfer to their competitors. the imperial/subsector/planetary navies will train their people to their own satisfaction. civilian shippers who venture into hazardous areas will either take career naval gunners or train their own. I can't envision anyone being satisfied with out-system certifications of unknown provenance.
perhaps the various navies make their gunnery training available to civilian agencies in pursuit of various political goals. "admiral, we want to open up trade with this world, but there is some interference along the way, make naval training available to this group / that corporation / anybody who wants it."
I agree.
Some numbers just to help:
Roll 2+ Four times on 2d6 = 100%
Roll 3+ Four times on 2d6 = 89.3%
Roll 4+ Four times on 2d6 = 70.6%
Roll 5+ Four times on 2d6 = 48.2%
Roll 6+ Four times on 2d6 = 27.2%
Roll 7+ Four times on 2d6 = 11.6%
Roll 8+ Four times on 2d6 = 3.0%
The odds of rolling a natural 12 on a single roll of 2d6 are 2.8% (for comparison)
Testing for Skill-3 Certification: Class 100 ... 20 candidates = 13 fail and 7 pass
Written (5+) = [roll0]
Simulation (7+) = [roll1]
Oral (5+) = [roll2]
Intern (7+) = [roll3]
Written (5+) = [roll4]
Simulation (7+) = [roll5]
Oral (5+) = [roll6]
Intern (7+) = [roll7]
Written (5+) = [roll8]
Simulation (7+) = [roll9]
Oral (5+) = [roll10]
Intern (7+) = [roll11]
Written (5+) = [roll12]
Simulation (7+) = [roll13]
Oral (5+) = [roll14]
Intern (7+) = [roll15]
Written (5+) = [roll16]
Simulation (7+) = [roll17]
Oral (5+) = [roll18]
Intern (7+) = [roll19]
Written (5+) = [roll20]
Simulation (7+) = [roll21]
Oral (5+) = [roll22]
Intern (7+) = [roll23]
Written (5+) = [roll24]
Simulation (7+) = [roll25]
Oral (5+) = [roll26]
Intern (7+) = [roll27]
Written (5+) = [roll28]
Simulation (7+) = [roll29]
Oral (5+) = [roll30]
Intern (7+) = [roll31]
Written (5+) = [roll32]
Simulation (7+) = [roll33]
Oral (5+) = [roll34]
Intern (7+) = [roll35]
Written (5+) = [roll36]
Simulation (7+) = [roll37]
Oral (5+) = [roll38]
Intern (7+) = [roll39]
Written (5+) = [roll40]
Simulation (7+) = [roll41]
Oral (5+) = [roll42]
Intern (7+) = [roll43]
Written (5+) = [roll44]
Simulation (7+) = [roll45]
Oral (5+) = [roll46]
Intern (7+) = [roll47]
Written (5+) = [roll48]
Simulation (7+) = [roll49]
Oral (5+) = [roll50]
Intern (7+) = [roll51]
Written (5+) = [roll52]
Simulation (7+) = [roll53]
Oral (5+) = [roll54]
Intern (7+) = [roll55]
Written (5+) = [roll56]
Simulation (7+) = [roll57]
Oral (5+) = [roll58]
Intern (7+) = [roll59]
Written (5+) = [roll60]
Simulation (7+) = [roll61]
Oral (5+) = [roll62]
Intern (7+) = [roll63]
Written (5+) = [roll64]
Simulation (7+) = [roll65]
Oral (5+) = [roll66]
Intern (7+) = [roll67]
Written (5+) = [roll68]
Simulation (7+) = [roll69]
Oral (5+) = [roll70]
Intern (7+) = [roll71]
Written (5+) = [roll72]
Simulation (7+) = [roll73]
Oral (5+) = [roll74]
Intern (7+) = [roll75]
Written (5+) = [roll76]
Simulation (7+) = [roll77]
Oral (5+) = [roll78]
Intern (7+) = [roll79]
Written (5+) = [roll0]
Simulation (7+) = [roll1]
Oral (5+) = [roll2]
Intern (7+) = [roll3]
Written (5+) = [roll4]
Simulation (7+) = [roll5]
Oral (5+) = [roll6]
Intern (7+) = [roll7]
Written (5+) = [roll8]
Simulation (7+) = [roll9]
Oral (5+) = [roll10]
Intern (7+) = [roll11]
Written (5+) = [roll12]
Simulation (7+) = [roll13]
Oral (5+) = [roll14]
Intern (7+) = [roll15]
Written (5+) = [roll16]
Simulation (7+) = [roll17]
Oral (5+) = [roll18]
Intern (7+) = [roll19]
Written (5+) = [roll20]
Simulation (7+) = [roll21]
Oral (5+) = [roll22]
Intern (7+) = [roll23]
Written (5+) = [roll24]
Simulation (7+) = [roll25]
Oral (5+) = [roll26]
Intern (7+) = [roll27]
Written (5+) = [roll28]
Simulation (7+) = [roll29]
Oral (5+) = [roll30]
Intern (7+) = [roll31]
Written (5+) = [roll32]
Simulation (7+) = [roll33]
Oral (5+) = [roll34]
Intern (7+) = [roll35]
Written (5+) = [roll36]
Simulation (7+) = [roll37]
Oral (5+) = [roll38]
Intern (7+) = [roll39]
Written (5+) = [roll40]
Simulation (7+) = [roll41]
Oral (5+) = [roll42]
Intern (7+) = [roll43]
Written (5+) = [roll44]
Simulation (7+) = [roll45]
Oral (5+) = [roll46]
Intern (7+) = [roll47]
Written (5+) = [roll48]
Simulation (7+) = [roll49]
Oral (5+) = [roll50]
Intern (7+) = [roll51]
Written (5+) = [roll52]
Simulation (7+) = [roll53]
Oral (5+) = [roll54]
Intern (7+) = [roll55]
Written (5+) = [roll56]
Simulation (7+) = [roll57]
Oral (5+) = [roll58]
Intern (7+) = [roll59]
Written (5+) = [roll60]
Simulation (7+) = [roll61]
Oral (5+) = [roll62]
Intern (7+) = [roll63]
Written (5+) = [roll64]
Simulation (7+) = [roll65]
Oral (5+) = [roll66]
Intern (7+) = [roll67]
Written (5+) = [roll68]
Simulation (7+) = [roll69]
Oral (5+) = [roll70]
Intern (7+) = [roll71]
Written (5+) = [roll72]
Simulation (7+) = [roll73]
Oral (5+) = [roll74]
Intern (7+) = [roll75]
Written (5+) = [roll76]
Simulation (7+) = [roll77]
Oral (5+) = [roll78]
Intern (7+) = [roll79]
Testing for Skill-3 Certification: Class 101 ... 20 candidates = 16 fail and 4 pass
Written (5+) = [roll0]
Simulation (7+) = [roll1]
Oral (5+) = [roll2]
Intern (7+) = [roll3]
Written (5+) = [roll4]
Simulation (7+) = [roll5]
Oral (5+) = [roll6]
Intern (7+) = [roll7]
Written (5+) = [roll8]
Simulation (7+) = [roll9]
Oral (5+) = [roll10]
Intern (7+) = [roll11]
Written (5+) = [roll12]
Simulation (7+) = [roll13]
Oral (5+) = [roll14]
Intern (7+) = [roll15]
Written (5+) = [roll16]
Simulation (7+) = [roll17]
Oral (5+) = [roll18]
Intern (7+) = [roll19]
Written (5+) = [roll20]
Simulation (7+) = [roll21]
Oral (5+) = [roll22]
Intern (7+) = [roll23]
Written (5+) = [roll24]
Simulation (7+) = [roll25]
Oral (5+) = [roll26]
Intern (7+) = [roll27]
Written (5+) = [roll28]
Simulation (7+) = [roll29]
Oral (5+) = [roll30]
Intern (7+) = [roll31]
Written (5+) = [roll32]
Simulation (7+) = [roll33]
Oral (5+) = [roll34]
Intern (7+) = [roll35]
Written (5+) = [roll36]
Simulation (7+) = [roll37]
Oral (5+) = [roll38]
Intern (7+) = [roll39]
Written (5+) = [roll40]
Simulation (7+) = [roll41]
Oral (5+) = [roll42]
Intern (7+) = [roll43]
Written (5+) = [roll44]
Simulation (7+) = [roll45]
Oral (5+) = [roll46]
Intern (7+) = [roll47]
Written (5+) = [roll48]
Simulation (7+) = [roll49]
Oral (5+) = [roll50]
Intern (7+) = [roll51]
Written (5+) = [roll52]
Simulation (7+) = [roll53]
Oral (5+) = [roll54]
Intern (7+) = [roll55]
Written (5+) = [roll56]
Simulation (7+) = [roll57]
Oral (5+) = [roll58]
Intern (7+) = [roll59]
Written (5+) = [roll60]
Simulation (7+) = [roll61]
Oral (5+) = [roll62]
Intern (7+) = [roll63]
Written (5+) = [roll64]
Simulation (7+) = [roll65]
Oral (5+) = [roll66]
Intern (7+) = [roll67]
Written (5+) = [roll68]
Simulation (7+) = [roll69]
Oral (5+) = [roll70]
Intern (7+) = [roll71]
Written (5+) = [roll72]
Simulation (7+) = [roll73]
Oral (5+) = [roll74]
Intern (7+) = [roll75]
Written (5+) = [roll76]
Simulation (7+) = [roll77]
Oral (5+) = [roll78]
Intern (7+) = [roll79]
Written (5+) = [roll0]
Simulation (7+) = [roll1]
Oral (5+) = [roll2]
Intern (7+) = [roll3]
Written (5+) = [roll4]
Simulation (7+) = [roll5]
Oral (5+) = [roll6]
Intern (7+) = [roll7]
Written (5+) = [roll8]
Simulation (7+) = [roll9]
Oral (5+) = [roll10]
Intern (7+) = [roll11]
Written (5+) = [roll12]
Simulation (7+) = [roll13]
Oral (5+) = [roll14]
Intern (7+) = [roll15]
Written (5+) = [roll16]
Simulation (7+) = [roll17]
Oral (5+) = [roll18]
Intern (7+) = [roll19]
Written (5+) = [roll20]
Simulation (7+) = [roll21]
Oral (5+) = [roll22]
Intern (7+) = [roll23]
Written (5+) = [roll24]
Simulation (7+) = [roll25]
Oral (5+) = [roll26]
Intern (7+) = [roll27]
Written (5+) = [roll28]
Simulation (7+) = [roll29]
Oral (5+) = [roll30]
Intern (7+) = [roll31]
Written (5+) = [roll32]
Simulation (7+) = [roll33]
Oral (5+) = [roll34]
Intern (7+) = [roll35]
Written (5+) = [roll36]
Simulation (7+) = [roll37]
Oral (5+) = [roll38]
Intern (7+) = [roll39]
Written (5+) = [roll40]
Simulation (7+) = [roll41]
Oral (5+) = [roll42]
Intern (7+) = [roll43]
Written (5+) = [roll44]
Simulation (7+) = [roll45]
Oral (5+) = [roll46]
Intern (7+) = [roll47]
Written (5+) = [roll48]
Simulation (7+) = [roll49]
Oral (5+) = [roll50]
Intern (7+) = [roll51]
Written (5+) = [roll52]
Simulation (7+) = [roll53]
Oral (5+) = [roll54]
Intern (7+) = [roll55]
Written (5+) = [roll56]
Simulation (7+) = [roll57]
Oral (5+) = [roll58]
Intern (7+) = [roll59]
Written (5+) = [roll60]
Simulation (7+) = [roll61]
Oral (5+) = [roll62]
Intern (7+) = [roll63]
Written (5+) = [roll64]
Simulation (7+) = [roll65]
Oral (5+) = [roll66]
Intern (7+) = [roll67]
Written (5+) = [roll68]
Simulation (7+) = [roll69]
Oral (5+) = [roll70]
Intern (7+) = [roll71]
Written (5+) = [roll72]
Simulation (7+) = [roll73]
Oral (5+) = [roll74]
Intern (7+) = [roll75]
Written (5+) = [roll76]
Simulation (7+) = [roll77]
Oral (5+) = [roll78]
Intern (7+) = [roll79]
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
A far simpler system would be to simply annex something like this onto the existing character generation system.
Thus, for skills gained in the formal military, or merchant characters that got skills on larger lines and with big corporations certification is assumed as these organizations would have formal training programs and want their work force qualified.
Medical characters could be assumed to have gotten certified to attain some level of skill, just as academics and others would have had to.
I can't see say, a megacorporation operating a large merchant ship hiring crew that aren't fully qualified to do it. They can pick and choose their crews, so they'd get ones that are certified. The same goes for the military. They would fully train their troops and crews on the equipment they are operating.
The only place where skill certification would be uncertain would be with characters that work on things like free and far traders, who are mercenaries, or other types that are working on the fringes of society. I can see a far trader operating on a thin margin taking crew with minimal skills simply because it's cost effective. Certification costs money, so they don't do it.
And, I agree with Atpollard, a success rate of 25% means either the test is far too hard, or those taking it are totally unqualified at the level they are testing at.
Thus, for skills gained in the formal military, or merchant characters that got skills on larger lines and with big corporations certification is assumed as these organizations would have formal training programs and want their work force qualified.
Medical characters could be assumed to have gotten certified to attain some level of skill, just as academics and others would have had to.
I can't see say, a megacorporation operating a large merchant ship hiring crew that aren't fully qualified to do it. They can pick and choose their crews, so they'd get ones that are certified. The same goes for the military. They would fully train their troops and crews on the equipment they are operating.
The only place where skill certification would be uncertain would be with characters that work on things like free and far traders, who are mercenaries, or other types that are working on the fringes of society. I can see a far trader operating on a thin margin taking crew with minimal skills simply because it's cost effective. Certification costs money, so they don't do it.
And, I agree with Atpollard, a success rate of 25% means either the test is far too hard, or those taking it are totally unqualified at the level they are testing at.
Three 5+ and one 7+ on 2d6 (targets of 8+, 8+, 8+, 10+ with +3 for skill)
30/36 x 30/36 x 30/30 x 21/36 = 0.3376 = 33.8% = about 1 in 3 chance of passing.
Hrrrmph, guess I didn't think through the brutality of 4 success rolls- it was intended to make these higher levels have a pucker factor, but not necessarily SEAL training washout rates.
But that's a big part of why I post these things, to get different eyes on them as QA before I jack up my own people.
On the other hand, Level III is equivalent to a US doctor, with a considerably shorter period of testing to get there, and Level IV is supposed to be harder then the rest.
So I am actually good with a high washout on Master, but definitely should be higher success rate for the others.
So perhaps
Level 0 6+
Level 1 6+/6+
Level 2 6+/8+/6+
Level 3 6+/6+/8+/8+
Level 4 8+/8+/8+/10+
But that's a big part of why I post these things, to get different eyes on them as QA before I jack up my own people.
On the other hand, Level III is equivalent to a US doctor, with a considerably shorter period of testing to get there, and Level IV is supposed to be harder then the rest.
So I am actually good with a high washout on Master, but definitely should be higher success rate for the others.
So perhaps
Level 0 6+
Level 1 6+/6+
Level 2 6+/8+/6+
Level 3 6+/6+/8+/8+
Level 4 8+/8+/8+/10+
Just as a point of comparison to the real world, when I took my Architectural License Exams it did not cost 3 months of a licensed Architect's salary and sections failed could be attempted up to three times after a 2 month delay. The pass/fail rate for any particular section was about 50% per attempt.
Now there are often LOTS of prerequisites, therefore one might have to hold a valid Level-1 certification to sit for the Level-2 certification exam. Thus a Level-4 certification might require passing (8+) a single Level-0 test for Cr 100 and two Level-1 tests at Cr 200 each and three Level-2 tests at Cr 300 each and four Level-3 tests at Cr 400 each. Now you are qualified to sit for the Level-4 exams ... FOUR brutal tests (10+) at Cr 1000 offered once a month (and you may try as many times as you like).
This way your Level-3 Certified Engineer can be studying and working towards passing that Level 4 Certification ... "We need to stay in port TWO extra days so I can sit for the Exam this month!"
[EDIT: I looked up the current exam. 7 tests at $210 each (about Cr 50 each) with a 2015 pass rate of about 66% per test.]
Now there are often LOTS of prerequisites, therefore one might have to hold a valid Level-1 certification to sit for the Level-2 certification exam. Thus a Level-4 certification might require passing (8+) a single Level-0 test for Cr 100 and two Level-1 tests at Cr 200 each and three Level-2 tests at Cr 300 each and four Level-3 tests at Cr 400 each. Now you are qualified to sit for the Level-4 exams ... FOUR brutal tests (10+) at Cr 1000 offered once a month (and you may try as many times as you like).
This way your Level-3 Certified Engineer can be studying and working towards passing that Level 4 Certification ... "We need to stay in port TWO extra days so I can sit for the Exam this month!"
[EDIT: I looked up the current exam. 7 tests at $210 each (about Cr 50 each) with a 2015 pass rate of about 66% per test.]
Last edited:
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
Contractor licensing is the same way. You pay a fee for the business test and another for the trade test (if there is one, not all require one). The combined fee is around $500. It depends on part which one you are getting.
You get two re-tests within 180 days free if you fail the first exam. There are prep places that will guarantee you pass for a training fee of $250 to $500 (again, give or take). Many community colleges also offer this training.
The expensive part is the insurance and bond.
You may need multiple licenses depending on what you want to do. That can get pricey.
It's a one time test unless you let the license lapse.
You get two re-tests within 180 days free if you fail the first exam. There are prep places that will guarantee you pass for a training fee of $250 to $500 (again, give or take). Many community colleges also offer this training.
The expensive part is the insurance and bond.
You may need multiple licenses depending on what you want to do. That can get pricey.
It's a one time test unless you let the license lapse.
Hmmm, again, Level III is equivalent to a medical DOCTOR in the US, so it should not be just a sitting test. I also had in mind the US Navy nuclear reactor program for the Engineering part.
I am aware of certification in IT, in general they test thoroughly for knowledge and can be rough and demanding, but it just shows command of the subject, not necessarily problem solving or judgement. To me Level 0 and 1 certification is very much like those and the ones you describe, not these higher professional levels.
A starship captain is going to want to KNOW he is getting a Chief Engineer in order to pay out that top salary. The more stringent the certification, the better value it holds for all.
In the 23rd or 57th or whatever century, we can assume some things will be different, including professional standards. I am postulating a brutal certification regimen due to the absence of a definitive university/college environment and quick resume verification.
It also has aspects of joining a union/brotherhood/guild/association. If you like, you can consider part of that fee are 'union dues' for joining during the duration of the certification, or some variant thereof, that upholds the rate for skill level and might be called upon in pay disputes.
Of course all this is justification and player explanation boilerplate. The game goal is to have a mechanism for different pay rates to differentiate characters and providing a full spectrum of hand-to-mouth living (so those mini adventures that provide 100 Cr payouts REALLY count to some) to top of the profession, and to give a sense of 'this is what this character does'.
I hadn't really considered before just now, but this option also provides a sense of 'leveling' that many players from other RPGs apparently need to grasp onto, and definitely a reward for post-muster improvement.
The high certification costs are a risk/reward pucker factor cash sink, in line with the 'live high large and dangerous' ethos of the game. As such, it's as 'realistic' as the trade system, to give the appearance and feel of doing business without being an accurate sim of what goes on here on 21st century Earth.
Of COURSE one could have a computer moderated test AND sim in the 100s or 1000s of Cr, which I do for the lower levels, but that's a thing for the Core Worlds where likely the certification system is already corrupted due to the high LL/bribery combo, robots do most of the work anyway and there is probably a considerable effort expended for 'busy' work to keep everyone occupied and not revolting.
Out here in Dangerous Space people pay their way, have to prove themselves, and are held accountable to promises and results.
That may be in some professions and trades. In most certifications I am aware of, there IS a recertification process, often required classtime, and a lapse period.
It might be more reasonable to skip the interning part for recertification. It should be a professional barrier/hurdle to entry, not consume time on the other end. But I really really like the Master 3 month test thing, a commitment and responsibility to grow the next generation of leading skilled professionals.
Examples-
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/learning/mcse-certification.aspx
http://tea.texas.gov/Texas_Educator...on_Renewals/Renewing_My_Standard_Certificate/
http://www.nursecredentialing.org/renewcertification.aspx
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/04/13/board-certification-and-fees-anger-doctors/?_r=0
Heh, that last one brings up that certification orgs would have an incentive to make tests hard just for more income. So, there is that real world aspect to consider.
The only down side, is that once per year is really once per campaign in my experience. Few games I have been in lasted 52 weeks of Game Time unless it was an Accountants in Space campaign where jumping to buy and sell cargo was the only real goal.
Have you had multi-year campaigns? In game time?
If not, then this is a one shot deal for the PCs. Throw down your pile of money, take your roll and live with it. Like CharGen.
Have you had multi-year campaigns? In game time?
If not, then this is a one shot deal for the PCs. Throw down your pile of money, take your roll and live with it. Like CharGen.
That may be in some professions and trades. In most certifications I am aware of, there IS a recertification process, often required classtime, and a lapse period.
Examples-
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/learning/mcse-certification.aspx
http://tea.texas.gov/Texas_Educator...on_Renewals/Renewing_My_Standard_Certificate/
http://www.nursecredentialing.org/renewcertification.aspx
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/04/13/board-certification-and-fees-anger-doctors/?_r=0
Heh, that last one brings up that certification orgs would have an incentive to make tests hard just for more income. So, there is that real world aspect to consider.
Hmm, probably is ridiculous for the interning for recertification. That should be the final barrier/hurdle to entry, but is probably too much for afterwards. DO like the 3 month Master training/testing thing, a commitment and responsiblity to grow the next generation of skilled professionals.
Probably true in most instances, 2-3 adventures then either things go Horribly Wrong for the characters or the gaming group disbands/changes/goes to another system/story.
I'll have to think about this one. Could be the fees are enough pucker factor and a couple game months doing without the big salary will motivate another try, or even drive adventures as the character needs to earn that much fast to try again.
But another issue is that the character may elect to go with that 50,000 Cr dangerous gig rather then mess with mere monthly pay. It may be that some characters never get around to bothering with it, and work in circles that work off reputation rather then certification.
Pretty sure bribery should not be a job with a certification license.
And if I were a character on the run, last thing I would do is run through a certification where I prove my known competency and style, be better to take a lower pay and not be noticed or ID'd.
Well, unless I am Robin Hood.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3hDAaxHNjs
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