Skill Certification- A 68A Game Option

[welsh]

I always took it that if you had been chief engineer on some merchant ship, you'd have papers as such. And while they could be forged, so could any certification.

This kind of flies in the face of chargen. I can attain a high rank or position during chargen without having to obtain more than minimal skills in that area. Which is also how things work in the real world. Being chief engineer is as much about supervision and administration as it is about drive maintenance.

 

[kilemall]

I always took it that if you had been chief engineer on some merchant ship, you'd have papers as such. And while they could be forged, so could any certification.

This kind of flies in the face of chargen. I can attain a high rank or position during chargen without having to obtain more than minimal skills in that area. Which is also how things work in the real world. Being chief engineer is as much about supervision and administration as it is about drive maintenance.

Hmmm, sort of. This is more about technical certification, not positional.

For rank, SOC, Leader, Admin, EDU, Liaison, etc. counts more.

The rule says you can use the term Senior or Lead Engineer, that was just an example title and it doesn't have to be Chief or implied that must be the guy in charge (although on smaller ships where Admin is rather pointless with only one other engineer it's more likely).

 

[kilemall]

Hrrrmph, guess I didn't think through the brutality of 4 success rolls- it was intended to make these higher levels have a pucker factor, but not necessarily SEAL training washout rates.

But that's a big part of why I post these things, to get different eyes on them as QA before I jack up my own people.

On the other hand, Level III is equivalent to a US doctor, with a considerably shorter period of testing to get there, and Level IV is supposed to be harder then the rest.

So I am actually good with a high washout on Master, but definitely should be higher success rate for the others.

So perhaps

Level 0 6+
Level 1 6+/6+
Level 2 6+/8+/6+
Level 3 6+/6+/8+/8+
Level 4 8+/8+/8+/10+

So what do these probabilities work out to?

 

[atpollard]

Level 0 6+
26/36 = 72.2% = about 3 in 4

Level 1 6+/6+
26/36 x 26/36 = 52.2% = about 1 in 2

Level 2 6+/8+/6+
26/36 x 21/36 x 26/36 = 30.4% = about 1 in 3

Level 3 6+/6+/8+/8+
26/36 x 26/36 x 21/36 x 21/36 = 17.7% = about 1 in 6

Level 4 8+/8+/8+/10+
21/36 x 21/36 x 21/36 x 6/36 = 3.3% = about 1 in 30

 

[kilemall]

Level 0 6+
26/36 = 72.2% = about 3 in 4

Level 1 6+/6+
26/36 x 26/36 = 52.2% = about 1 in 2

Level 2 6+/8+/6+
26/36 x 21/36 x 26/36 = 30.4% = about 1 in 3

Level 3 6+/6+/8+/8+
26/36 x 26/36 x 21/36 x 21/36 = 17.7% = about 1 in 6

Level 4 8+/8+/8+/10+
21/36 x 21/36 x 21/36 x 6/36 = 3.3% = about 1 in 30

Is that with the normal skill levels 0-4 factored in?

I suppose I should express them this way-

0 6+
1 5+/5+
2 4+/6+/4+
3 3+/3+/5+/5+
4 4+/4+/4+/6+

 

[atpollard]

Is that with the normal skill levels 0-4 factored in?

I suppose I should express them this way-

0 6+
1 5+/5+
2 4+/6+/4+
3 3+/3+/5+/5+
4 4+/4+/4+/6+

OK, To help you figure out any on your own, the odds of any particular roll or higher are ...

2d6
2+ = 36/36
3+ = 35/36
4+ = 33/36
5+ = 30/36
6+ = 26/36
7+ = 21/36
8+ = 15/36
9+ = 10/36
10+ = 6/36
11+ = 3/36
12+ = 1/36

For a series of rolls, just multiply the odds together.

0 6+
26/36 = 72.2% = about 3 in 4 chance

1 5+/5+
30/36 x 30/36 = 69.4% = about 2 in 3 chance

2 4+/6+/4+
33/36 x 26/36 x 33/36 = 60.7% = about 3 in 5 chance

3 3+/3+/5+/5+
35/36 x 35/36 x 30/36 x 30/36 = 65.6% = about 2 in 3 chance

4 4+/4+/4+/6+
33/36 x 33/36 x 33/36 x 26/36 = 55.6% = about 1 in 2 chance

 

[kilemall]

Thanks for the statistics lesson and the valuations. That's about what I wanted, I'll probably go retro the original posts with those, after I figure out what to do with the interning.

Been thinking over a lot of the critiques, and so far...

The point about a year of gametime adventuring is highly relevant. I already have pucker factors and costs (the most serious being time costs, maybe left behind or delays or missing opportunities, not to mention those fees). So I am probably going to go with okay to retake the exam, drop the fees down to 2x the new level's monthly salary. The exception being the Level 3 and 4 ones, if interning is involved. Still plenty of money/time sink, possibly more.

Interning should probably only be required on initial certification at that level. But I want some time costs for that higher pay. So I'm going with interning on initial certification, continuing ed classes for any re-certifications (tech updates, mandatory safety briefings, etc.). Level 4 drops to just a month of those.

Probably should have 'need previous level certification' provision, will add that.

Auto certification from the character's primary career is probably reasonable, again they may be running into recertification time on some of their skills. But I'm going with 'if they failed to reup and that last term had a skill improvement, that skill level is not certified'. Maybe the character failed the tests- maybe the character was not allowed to certify due to budget or lack of positions/funds to pay at the higher level/rank that certification owed them. Good bitter at the service/now I am going to get mine amongst the stars stuff. Either way, character grist we should not fail to mill.

I like the bond AND the union/guild dues explanation for the fee, but those sim facilities, interning arrangements and oral boards ain't cheap. So I will put in some boilerplate on the rules posts for that.

On the 'why so many rolls' question- it would be perfectly reasonable to boil it down to one roll, so 468AC, which adding in skill levels yields a 45678 range. People are of course welcome to use that simplification. But again I want that pucker factor for such a big time and cost sink and a sense of more demanding hurdles for the Big Payday.

 

[kilemall]

I went ahead and adjusted the fee and retry rules, and basic chances as per the above intent and the critiques about typical adventure timing.

I backed off the full year interning to six months but shifted it down to the Senior level, in line with a doctor's interning, and reduced/eliminated it upon recertification.

I added a robot section after being reminded by finding 101 Robots about Expert Systems. I'm reposting it here for ready convenience to peruse.

I really like putting the robots 'to work' with a leasing fee structure and an economic model to justify their high capital cost, but the pay structure also puts pressure on for the robot design to be economically viable. I think robots would be very closely designed for their role without incurring unprofitable options.

Robot/Expert System Certification and Pay

Robot and Expert System Certification comes in two types, Product Certification and Individual System Certification.

Robot/Expert system models must be type certified in order to be allowed to drive ships, vehicles, operate on people, etc.

The cost is 100x the normal certification fee, and also requires 5 prototypes including 3 randomly chosen from an assembly line.

Each robot/system must be certified/recertified just as per a human, as manufacturing, hardware or software glitches might have cropped up since the day the unit left the factory.

Robot leasing/pay is at the same rates as humans with circumstances possibly increasing or decreasing pay.

Robot leasing or ownership in lieu of hiring humans can be profitable especially at the higher skill levels, but is mitigated by the requirement that robot action liabilities devolve upon their owners, and they are required to have human supervision in their specialty.

There is a form of itinerant Traveller that buys robots, often used and/or uncertified, to earn money and/or passage with skills the owner does not have.

 

[Ackehece]

A far simpler system would be to simply annex something like this onto the existing character generation system..

you mean something like T5.09 Life Pursuits Certificates (p81)
Qualified 1d < C + S
Competent 3d < C + S
Experienced 4d < C + S
Master 5d < C + S
Failing requires mod -1 per failure on a particular test

 

[kilemall]

you mean something like T5.09 Life Pursuits Certificates (p81)
Qualified 1d < C + S
Competent 3d < C + S
Experienced 4d < C + S
Master 5d < C + S
Failing requires mod -1 per failure on a particular test

<Shrug> that's fine, I offer this up for the sort of QA the board provided and the idea itself to be modified to suit to taste or ignored.

I want this as part of a regular aspect of one's post-career adventuring, and a goal to shoot for, especially as I have my Eureka skill increase bit in play, so that's why more of a play mechanism then chargen.

Conversely, someone may choose to undercertify, perhaps hiding from something in their past or not wanting the professional obligations of Master, a definite character differentiator.

I imagine most people found the skill/pay ratios to be the most interesting part.

 

[Ackehece]

These certs in T5 are a regular part . Would you hire an un-certified navigator? Exams, certificates, administration, bureaucracy. All the paperwork of civilization.

 

[kilemall]

These certs in T5 are a regular part . Would you hire an un-certified navigator? Exams, certificates, administration, bureaucracy. All the paperwork of civilization.

Huh, I keep reinventing the T5 wheel, which either indicates I am brilliantly in tune with the development of Traveller, or we ALL think alike in some hive mind.

Of course, in my Oort Cloud, no one kowtows to The Man with any silly certification, "I got here in one piece in my radioactive Seeker in one piece of course I know what I'm doing", and you have no choice- only two guys on the station to hire, which shall it be?

 

[pendragonman]

Huh, I keep reinventing the T5 wheel, which either indicates I am brilliantly in tune with the development of Traveller, or we ALL think alike in some hive mind.

Of course, in my Oort Cloud, no one kowtows to The Man with any silly certification, "I got here in one piece in my radioactive Seeker in one piece of course I know what I'm doing", and you have no choice- only two guys on the station to hire, which shall it be?

Well, since we don't have a doctor or autodoc, and your radioactive hide is rapidly dieing of cancer...the other guy.

 

[kilemall]

Well, since we don't have a doctor or autodoc, and your radioactive hide is rapidly dieing of cancer...the other guy.

Zactly!

This is a big deal for my milieu, to have the annoying workaday drudgery of Civilized Space, then throw them into a frontier situation where none of that exists.

The more jarring the transition, the more real both the wilderness and developed planets are.

 

[kilemall]

Revisited this cause of a recent thread on Traveller Reddit about a similar system.


Took some of the comments to heart. Cut certification to one month's pay and cut down of the middling certification requirements.


Did add in a retake/scheduling period on multiples of weeks for the lower certifications and months on the top 2. This premised on the lower levels are geared for the bulk of ship's crew where qualified people are wanted, while still maintaining a high bar to clear for the upper echelons of the professions.


Also, those longer periods of certification vs. rewards to me dictates higher stakes needed.



Added in an end of career rule too, another imponderable to weigh in on when considering whether to roll for reenlistment or not. Leaving in good standing when you want to is a much more planned event then failing the reenlist roll, so the assumption is the certifications are much more 'in order' then not.



On the other hand some of the certs may have just been taken with the idea of continuing service, so luck may give some longer cert years left.