software for character generation
- Thread starter Tauther
- Start date
It could have been me. I just need to add the Psion career to mine. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8yNkAv2hHk
Nevermind. You said Excel generator. I have no idea how to use Excel as a generator.
Garyius2003
SOC-13
American copyright for printed material doesn't work that way, and for Mongoose to get a US patent for methods would take one heck of a lot more than an excel program.
So, no. They can claim a license in whatever they want in Britain, but enforcing it in US courts will run a risk of resulting in them paying sanctions.
Please don't take my word for it, look at UCC article 2 in the US. I buy copy one, I own copy one. I cannot make copy two and resell it due to copyright, but I can do anything else I please with copy one, including having it modified. I can also write derivative works or commentary or supporting works.
There is a lot of thought that software purchases are different or could be, but most states have not adopted such a change to the UCC yet. However, I purchase a book from Mongoose. Their purported license is nothing.
As far as trademarks, no one owns MgT Traveller in the US.
It depends on whether we're talking about using abstract rules mechanics, copyrighted text or trademarks.
While I believe you can implement game mechanics in software, or even rewrite the same game mechanics in your own words, you cannot re-use copyrighted text, and implementing character generation as-is would involve re-using a lot of canned text such as mishaps, events and such.
On the other hand, the OGL does allow implementation in software. WoTC who drafted the license and own it's copyright are very clear about this. Hence you are perfectly free to use the OGL world generation material, as I do in my OGL world generation rules file for StarBase. Unfortunately the careers in the MgT core rules are not in the OGL material.
Since "The T Word" is trademarked you can't reference it or claim any compatibility unless granted the rights to do so, and in fact there are a few very minor differences between the published OGL world generation system in the and the core rules. Mongoose do not call their edition "Mongoose Traveller" or use the term MgT officially, but since the Mongoose name and Traveller itself are trademarked separately I'm sure that's all the protection they or FFE needs.
So while it is possible to produce some types of software, and even re-use text published under the OGL for software or even your own game, calling something Traveller or even claiming compatibility with it is going too far to the best of my knowledge, both in the UK and USA, on Trademark grounds. This how Mongoose are able to control software support for their game, and I think quite reasonably. I have no problem with them or their policy on this.
Simon Hibbs
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curmudgeon
SOC-12
Here are the important things you need to know about distribution of something like this. If you look at the Traveller Developer's Pack, there is a Read Me First document. In there, it discusses what you can and cannot do with the SDR and as a licensee of Traveller. There it states that you need to contact Mongoose Publishing if you want to "Publish software based on the current edition of Traveller." By publish they mean:
So, I would suggest reading through the Developer's Pack and follow the instructions given there.
I most definitely wouldn't.
Sure you can - and be successfully sued for it. :rofl:
Copyright laws are designed to provide protections for the rights holder with regards to derivative works. You got the donkey's tail spatially reversed...
Of course not, Copyright protection is covered by Federal law.
Aside from the realities of U.S. international copyright law - Mongoose books are explicitly covered by U.S. and U.K. copyright and printed in both countries. Look at the first page of their books.
curmudgeon
SOC-12
If you look at a copy of the Mongoose Traveller Core Rulebook, specifically the page with the Table of Contents, you will see this, at the bottom of that page:
You will see that Far Future Enterprises, aka Marc Miller, has the US Trademark on Traveller, no matter who is publishing it. Furthermore, you will see that it is covered by copyright in the US as well as the UK.Mongoose Traveller Core Rulebook page 1 said:
I am not sure where you are trying to go with this, but it is pretty straight forward that creating a derivative work of this would be covered under US Copyright Law, and could easily be subject to litigation by both Mongoose Publishing and Far Future Enterprises.
That's fair enough, as far as it goes, but it depends whether you're talking about licensees of the Traveller logo, or licenses of the OGL content. According to the Traveller Logo License document, the SRDs are released under the OGL and the Traveller logo license itself is a different license covering use of a trademark.
The OGL does allow publishing in the form of software, it mentions translation into computer languages explicitly. WOTC have been perfectly clear about this. It's their license, copyrighted by them and it's terms specifically exclude adding or removing additional terms or conditions from the license (see clause 2). The license has not been amended to exclude software implementation, and could not be so amended without violating both the terms of the license itself and WOTC's copyright on the license text.
Whether or not you can call such material 'Traveller' or compatible with Traveller is a separate question that is purely a trademark issue. In fact the OGL itself has a clause specifically excluding the use of any trademarked product identity with OGL material without a separate license.
Simon Hibbs
Edit - I'd lust like to note that the SRD material released under the OGL is liberally sprinkled with the term 'Traveller'. This means you could publish a game containing the OGL text including this term. Mongoose also referring to the license as the Traveller Open Gaming License is also a bit odd because in theory it might allow people to refer to their material as being "Traveller Open Gaming License" material, and sneak in references to the trademark that way. I'm not touching that approach with a barge pole though. This is why WoTC came up with the term D20 to refer to their OGL material, to avoid any 'name drift' from D&D.
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You did check that before posting, right? Maybe the document you have is different from mine. I'm looking at the license text right now on the last few pages of "Traveller SRD v1.1.doc", and the very first sentence of the license says:
"The following text is the property of Wizards of the Coast, Inc. and is Copyright 2000 Wizards of the Coast, Inc (‘Wizards’). All Rights Reserved. "
And the very last clause of the license is:
"15. COPYRIGHT NOTICE
Open Game License v 1.0a Copyright 2000, Wizards of the Coast, Inc. "
Regarding use of trademarks within the OGL, have a look at clause 7 which begins "Use of Product Identity: You agree not to Use any Product Identity,...." because I don't understand how what you wrote fits with that section.
Simon Hibbs
dmccoy1693
SOC-13
Actually, this is completely wrong. It says right at the top:
OGL for Traveller said:
Mongoose does not have their own open game license. They use the one released by Wizards. The terms of the Wizards OGL still apply.
Mind you, you might be talking about the Traveller Logo License, which is a completely different license and has nothing to do with Wizards or the d20STL license they had once upon a time. All it does is allow you to use the Traveller Compatible Product logo on your book. It does not allow you to use the Traveller Reference Document, which is what is mostly in the core book. The Traveller Reference Document is released under the terms of the Open Game License released by Wizards.
Edit: Naturally, had I looked, I would have seen that most of what I wrote was covered by simonh.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
I get great satisfaction generating characters the old-fashioned way, by throwing dice.
Vladika
SOC-14 1K
I believe you CAN reference someones trademark. It's done all the time.
You certainly can NOT use it though.
dmccoy1693 said:
OOPS - yeah I got that all screwed up... I haven't really looked at that Mongoose stuff in several years.However, as Vladika says, you can reference Trademarks - just not use them or associate with the product without permission (purpose of the trademark).
You can write software - but not for Mongoose Traveller by name (just as the OGL restricts the product identity for WoTC). That requires the Traveller Logo License, IIRC, which does explicitly restrict software. Using the OGL for software for chargen would be pointless as the SRD leaves out critical elements like the careers and even the attribute basics, IIRC. You could make the software using all the rules - but not using unique names, including not stating any applicability to the trademarked names themselves. (Which is essentially the same as with copyright for U.S. games anyway - rules not being subject to copyright protection.)
Bottom line - you need Mongooses permission to derive software works for their licensed property and must follow the terms of their logo license, or get separate permission to claim MgT compatibility... <shrug>
That's why I was telling friends about the Mongoose rules for $5 during their sale. $15 now. The SRD is a waste of time. But some people thing "IT'S FREE! OMG!!!"
The SRD is missing a lot of stuff.
Icosahedron
SOC-14 1K
This is what annoys me with copyright, trademarks, etc.
I have no objection to:
"You can't produce item X because we're going to do it and it'll affect our profits."
That's fair - you should be able to profit from your own idea without being undercut by rip-offs It's what copyright is supposed to be about.
What I hate is:
"You can't produce item X because we say so, but we're not going to produce it either, so nobody can have it."
That's just abuse of privilege. It may be legal, but it's not right.
Now if Mongoose are going to license someone to create a chargen program, on terms someone can afford, that's great - get on with it, why isn't it here already?
If not, Arrrrr me hearties, hoist the Jolly Roger!
I have no objection to:
"You can't produce item X because we're going to do it and it'll affect our profits."
That's fair - you should be able to profit from your own idea without being undercut by rip-offs It's what copyright is supposed to be about.
What I hate is:
"You can't produce item X because we say so, but we're not going to produce it either, so nobody can have it."
That's just abuse of privilege. It may be legal, but it's not right.
Now if Mongoose are going to license someone to create a chargen program, on terms someone can afford, that's great - get on with it, why isn't it here already?
If not, Arrrrr me hearties, hoist the Jolly Roger!
I recommend anyone interested in creating a character generation program contact Mongoose and explain that you plan to create such a program for non-commercial hobby reasons and will put a disclaimer to that effect on the program . I think you will find that they are most accommodating. I recently did this for a Trade program that I am working on and will be releasing soon. Matt from Mongoose replied that they would have no issues about a program released and distributed in such manner.
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