Special Operations Forces in Traveller

[Cleon the Mad]

Originally posted by Uncle Bob:
Sorry guys, I did not mean to be offenive. I do get a little annoyed when a thread gets bumped and I find the new posts are just humorous references to events and personalities on Random Static(?) which I have (deliberately) not been following.

I need to lighten up.

).

I appricate your apology. In hindsight, I should have considered posting my admittidly silly post as a new thread in Random Static with at most a footnote here asking people to go to Random Static to read my post, with the exceptions of the sillier surveys in the Scout Survey forum, Random Static seems to be apparently the only place for such. My attempt to use the same level of silliness here was apparently not wise, nor in consideration of others. I will try to refrain from most of my silliness outside of places like Random Static, and the sillier Scout Survey threads.

I just ask, if you're not already doing so already, that you consider that even if a type of post does not interest you due to it's comedic and/or silly nature, to consider that not all, and personally I assume none of the people who participate in such a thread are doing so just for the seeking of some little bit of status like "SOC-15" or some other superficial reason. To be quite honest, I don't even know how many posts it takes to jump a SOC level, or the specific formula to do such.

Enough said on my end, please of course feel free to comment, I'll only continue this topic regarding the silly posts if asked to within a reply to such.

 

[Jame]

The 3I might use specialists for operations on lower-TL worlds, especially infiltrators when it needs something done quietly. I suppose merc units might be useful for fronting ops (like that Vargr corsair unit that was never hired, much less mentioned) regardless of TL, though Intelligence could usually cover it up. Keep in mind, though, that I don't know much about running/organizing special operations, but the above seems valid.

 

[Shadowdancer]

Given that the number of black globe generators is limited, it would make sense to use them primarily for special ops rather than assign them to general patrol ships or even primary battle ships.

 

[Cleon the Mad]

Originally posted by Paraquat Johnson:
Given that the number of black globe generators is limited, it would make sense to use them primarily for special ops rather than assign them to general patrol ships or even primary battle ships.

And risk having them captured by the enemy, especially when most enemies are about a TL lower then the Imperium, and the work of reverse engineering a black globe might just be the boost they need to catch up to the Imperium's TL? Or even if being TL 14 means they simply can't reverse engineer one, this means that now they have one they can use against the Imperium when a spec ops/spy ship is captured.

Okay, yes, there's that risk with let's say a class of heavy cruisers also, but generally speaking, the ships are either going to a) Win the battle, and thus not be captured, b) Lose but jump away before captured or c) Be destroyed, possibly and ironically enough due to having the black globes, since they do tend to get overcharged. So, IMHO it's somewhat ironic but it seems like to me the best policy with a black globe to keep the technology secret is to more overtly use them on large capital ships.

But then again, who ever said I have a good concept of espionage?

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by Uncle Bob:
Sorry guys, I did not mean to be offenive. I do get a little annoyed when a thread gets bumped and I find the new posts are just humorous references to events and personalities on Random Static(?) which I have (deliberately) not been following.
_______________________________________________
Accepted, YE!
_______________________________________________
I need to lighten up.
_______________________________________________
Physician, heal thyself!<winks> As do we all, betimes.
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As to spec forces, current units do a variety of missions. Some (like the traditional "Green Beret" job of advising insurgents) can be done by Mercs. Some jobs (like counter-terrorist and hostage rescue) are best done by planetary or subsector units.

But two jobs the Imperials will want to do themselves: Operational Reconnaisance (USMC Force Recon, and the principle job of SEALs, SAS, and SBS) and strategic reconnaisance (working with and for Intelligence).

_________________________________________________
This has been my take on this as well. Especially the mercs fer(a) plausible deniability ;(b) the expenses saved by using these troops instead of regular forces; keeping (c) the latter two missions in the realm of Imperial SPEC OPs/RECCE units (S-3; Marine Commandoes; etc).
thanks YE!

 

[Vargas]

Spec Ops is also useful to clear the way/assist conventional (if you call battledress clad, fusion gun toting, nuke firing Marines conventional ).

 

[lightsenshi]

Originally posted by Vargas:
Spec Ops is also useful to clear the way/assist conventional (if you call battledress clad, fusion gun toting, nuke firing Marines conventional ).

No, that's what you call "clean up"

 

[kafka47]

I see the 3I essentially being a community of nations that share common interests bounded together by common institutions. Therefore, having said that it has various outside powers, eg. alien governments that while are not as high technologically the 3I is forced to accept, as their cultures remain so strong that it would not want to risk war.

Afterall, the infancy of the 3I with the various "Campaigns" proved that there are real limits to growth and expansion. So for the 3I to take covert action against those targets, would risk all out war. Now, the 3I believes that it can win any war due to technological superiority, the reality is...that it never really had to fight a "real" war save, the current Rim War. Therefore, what was at stake was the 3I have vastly superior resources, of which, technological is a significant but not sole part.

That is why isolated actions using Black Globes would be tactical strike teams. In and Out, before even anyone getting wind of it. This is done through the main Imperial institutions ie the Traveller careers.

The importance of the Scouts, is to provide the actual reconnaisance and social engineering to make the planet accept Imperial rule. The Marines and Army have the specialists, and the Navy provides the transport. Read carefully, M0 and you will find that they are highly selective to which planets they want to admit. This explains the large number of Pocket Empires in and around the 3I. But, as the resource base for the 3I, so does it arrogance. The first Civil War was fought for the top job by a military that thought it knew better than to trust an aristocratic government. (who can blame them Cleon the Mad) But the second Civil War was fought over the foundations of the Imperium...that is why the Rebellion/MT milieu is very interesting to play in, if you take away the large TCS engagements and starting playing that every system has a choice...

What also makes one think that the rivals of the 3I do not have Black Globes, the fear of MAD, keeps the Balance of Power alive. Plus, add in notions of honour for the Aslan and stability for the Zhodani and need for control by the Hivers and luckly (as it has been said many times...) geography for K'kree and the organization of the Vargr. As for the Solomani... that is what the T20 Milieu will have to explore...

Therefore, I concur with the need for small tactical teams and specialists. But, for an entity as large as the Imperium, I would see these to be more of a Domain force rather than 3I effort. Which is why, I stress that there would be a patchwork of armies coordinated loosely by the Imperial Army. And, as the Imperium cannot risk rebellion, it is likely to "privatize" the function of peacekeeping to Merc companies, planetary governments, and whatnot.

 

[Falkayn]

FWIW, in a semi-related thread I've posted the Star Legion Marine Organisation as I see it.

 

[Cleon the Mad]

Originally posted (in part, I only quote a very small section of his post) by kafka47:

What also makes one think that the rivals of the 3I do not have Black Globes
.

In short, Zho's don't have the TL (or have just now gotten it circa year 1100 with a small handfull of worlds), so they would have to find one in an ancient cache or capture it from the Imperium. Most other interstellar governments, same answer, with it less likley due to location. Vargr have some TL 15 worlds, even some TL 16, so if they can be developed just by research, and not due to finding a cache and then reverse engineering (which I suspect the Imperium actually did) maybe one of their worlds has developed one, if it's likely that a lone TL 15 or 16 world would, no large governments with large amounts of high tech worlds with which to share research. Hivers do have the tech, and have probably been TL 15 for at least as long as the Imperium, so if research alone can do it, they probably do have them, if one needs to reverse engineer from a working model at TL 15, then they might not, I don't even think they have any ancient sites, or at most maybe one or two.

So, I'd give a nod to the Hivers if it can be done via research, otherwise, although possibly, it's improbable due to various factors inheirent to each race, IMHO.

 

[kafka47]

{Conspiracy mode on}

I wouldn't past the Imperium to have sold some of the Ancient cache to the Starfish, in order to procure the needed technology...

And, who cares about a bunch of uplifted doggies, kill the leader of the Pack, offer the Exec Offer a uniform with purple and orange garnish, with gold buttons...and you have them licking your palm...

[Image of Norris appears on the vid]

Is this thing turned on? It's the Zho, that might advance by 1116 that worries me. Intelligence forecasts that they are rapidly approaching the same level as the Imperium. One never knows when they will launch another Frontier War... So those mind-rippers probably already have the tech.

[Full interactive video now commences]

So we expect all citizens, especially, those working Research [censored] to do your patriotic duty and report anyone with a beard, Vargr with Extents sounding names, check readily blood samples. Building a Secure Imperium is Everyone's Responsibility. Trust the Nobility.

A Public Service Announcement by Duke Norris, Regina, Spinward Marches

We will now return you regularly scheduled program...Die Zho Die to be followed up, the nightly newsfeed.

{Conspiracy mode off}

As I stated in the original post, the racial profiles of the powers around the Imperium prevent widespread black globe use...

So in terms of a strategic asset, it is limited by the diffusion of the technology. This is where the Imperium has the upper hand. For only the Imperium has the resources to "mass" produce Black Globes from the original Ancient cache, which if memory serves me right was in the order of a few thousand.

 

[BMonnery]

Originally posted by Murph:
IMTU you have the Imperial Marine Commandos. They are like the SAS (Special Air Service)/Delta of the Imperium. They get the Impossible Missions, the deniable missions, and the missions you just really don't want to know about.

In modern usage a commando is an elite asault trooper, and Marines (and Jump Infantry in general) would have need of such units for spearhead deployments. I can see each Marine Regiment (of 5 Battalions) having a Commando company attached for such work.

These aren't "Special Forces" though. SOF are basically troops trained for recce work and work in non-standard environments. In book 4 we have three "specialist forces" schools:

Jump School (not in book 4, but ISTR implied)
Commando School
Profors School

IMC Marines wear Maroon because they are all Jump-trained (Jump Infantry do likewise). Those assigned to ships parties (small groups carried on ships for boarding, raiding etc.) are also Commando and Profors trained making them the elite equivalent of US Rangers, UK Marine Commandos etc. IMC it is common for local Imperial Army units (remembering that IMC the Imperial Army is a sum of parts affair) to have troopers who have passed the specialist courses, and even have their own recce/ standbehinds/ counter-terrorist units. The only common units were those of the Imperial Marines.

The SAS equivalent were not part of the army or marines, they were the IISS Security Branch. They are wide ranging intel gatherers for the Imperium, provide the Emperors escort etc. just like the IRL SAS do (for the Queen, PM etc.). They have deniability for the black ops work, and Marines etc. passing their selection transfer service, and return to the rank of Private.

Bryn

 

[Murph]

Thanks Brynn.

Originally posted by Murph:
IMTU you have the Imperial Marine Commandos. They are like the SAS (Special Air Service)/Delta of the Imperium. They get the Impossible Missions, the deniable missions, and the missions you just really don't want to know about.

In modern usage a commando is an elite asault trooper, and Marines (and Jump Infantry in general) would have need of such units for spearhead deployments. I can see each Marine Regiment (of 5 Battalions) having a Commando company attached for such work.

These aren't "Special Forces" though. SOF are basically troops trained for recce work and work in non-standard environments. In book 4 we have three "specialist forces" schools:

Jump School (not in book 4, but ISTR implied)
Commando School
Profors School

IMC Marines wear Maroon because they are all Jump-trained (Jump Infantry do likewise). Those assigned to ships parties (small groups carried on ships for boarding, raiding etc.) are also Commando and Profors trained making them the elite equivalent of US Rangers, UK Marine Commandos etc. IMC it is common for local Imperial Army units (remembering that IMC the Imperial Army is a sum of parts affair) to have troopers who have passed the specialist courses, and even have their own recce/ standbehinds/ counter-terrorist units. The only common units were those of the Imperial Marines.

The SAS equivalent were not part of the army or marines, they were the IISS Security Branch. They are wide ranging intel gatherers for the Imperium, provide the Emperors escort etc. just like the IRL SAS do (for the Queen, PM etc.). They have deniability for the black ops work, and Marines etc. passing their selection transfer service, and return to the rank of Private.

Bryn

 

[Gray Pennell]

I am planning a campaign along the Sword World-Darrian boarder. The players are an odd ball group of ISS, Navel Intelligence, and Commandos. They are in a modified Donosev spy craft (think fishing trawler) to map/verify ship movements right before the 5th FW. The commandos are a specially trained infiltration squad to support ground operations when needed. They also make great red shirts and NPC turn PCs for the non combat PCs.

In MTU the Commandos and Intelligence school are on the same world Jae Tellona, (Rhylanor 2814) which according to GURPS Behind the Claw is a navel perserve restrict to everyone. So I would agree with most people that I see my SF more like SAS/Delta Force then Rangers/Commandos. Navel Intelligence works closely with the commandos who provide backup/fire support when needed.

So campaigns would happen something like this
1. Navel/Scout Intelligence find a problem
2. Commandos deploy to support intelligences assets (Things are solved or get worse)
3. Commandos prep for navel invasion and jump assault.
4. Navy penetrates the system behind commando strikes
5. Jump troops land based on navel intelligence and commando assets
6. Invasion goes on.

 

[McPerth]

I know they are not canon, but an MT variant, but IMTU, many of those deniable black ops where taken by th IRIS strike branch, usually supported (aside form other IRIS branches) by scouts (when outside Imperial space), or Marines (either Imperial, subsector/reserve or even planetary) in operations inside Imperial space.

Of course, I'm talking about preplanned operations. For impromptu operations, any SF on hand (even SWAT police teams, if no other was on hand) were used, as it would take too long to assemble/send such a strike team...

 

[Dragoner]

For impromptu operations, any SF on hand (even SWAT police teams, if no other was on hand) were used, as it would take too long to assemble/send such a strike team...

Yes, in my Dead Moon adventure posted in the files section, that is how I did it, an ad hoc group of a Imperial Navy Intelligence attache, local police and a requisitioned far trader of the player's.

 

[Uxi]

I had done up 7 Imperial special forces groups (Coded Alpha through Eta) which used TL16 and even TL17 prototype gear. Basically a mix of James Bond meets Robocop super tech. I had originally intended to use them in relic form in the New Era in a Jump Start cache (along with a set of groundhogs), but never got around to it beyond the basic unit profiles.

I had planned their pre-Rebellion deployments and overview of activities during the Rebellion. Basically the idea started with one secretly assigned per Domain but loyal to the Emperor alone and almost always rotated to Capital where 3 were always kept as a response cadre. When Strephon died, they initially took sides like everyone else though 4 of the 7 eventually relocated to serve the Real Strephon while the Ilelish detachment,Beta, was partially destroyed during insurgency/guerrilla activities against Dulinor after learning the truth, with the rest scattering. The Sol-unit, Delta,was said to be destroyed during the Solomani reconquest of Terra, though rumored survivors were the subject of intense SolSec activities.

Lucan was said to have tried to use Alpha to assassinate the Real Strephon but that when they were deployed, they defected, bringing over a Tigress (or Panthera IMTU) BatRon with them by killing and/or deceiving the political officers Lucan had installed.

Gamma was one the units that I was going to use as a Groundhog, redeployed by Strephon to harrass the Solomani. They would have been discovered in a Jump Start cache near Terra.

 

[McPerth]

I had done up 7 Imperial special forces groups (Coded Alpha through Eta) which used TL16 and even TL17 prototype gear. Basically a mix of James Bond meets Robocop super tech. I had originally intended to use them in relic form in the New Era in a Jump Start cache (along with a set of groundhogs), but never got around to it beyond the basic unit profiles.

I had planned their pre-Rebellion deployments and overview of activities during the Rebellion. Basically the idea started with one secretly assigned per Domain but loyal to the Emperor alone and almost always rotated to Capital where 3 were always kept as a response cadre.

Super-elite teams, better trained than even Imperial Comandos, very high sprit de corps, under direct command of the Emperor... They remind me quite a lot the concept of the IRIS strike teams I told about above :devil:.

 

[rancke]

IMTU the Emperor's personal special agents (the ones that actually get to meet him once in a while for really confidential debriefings) work for the Office of Transportation. That's the organization that arranges for moving them around, so it makes sense to me that it would coordinate their efforts.


Hans

 

[Uxi]

Super-elite teams, better trained than even Imperial Comandos, very high sprit de corps, under direct command of the Emperor... They remind me quite a lot the concept of the IRIS strike teams I told about above :devil:.

I'm told that great minds think alike...

The Robocop line was intentional as they were cyborged (using many of the goodies in the FF&S section) and sort of modeled on IMF/James Bond meets Gatchaman with an AI-powered (Deyo-derived) TL17 computers in their black-globed "mega-fighter" sloop/cutter that had a pseudobiological robot assigned as the co-pilot. Each team was supposed to have at least one psionic, as well.

Usual strength of each team intended to be 5-8 operators (not counting the ship or pilot), though they would often arrange to have an Imperial Marine strike force nearby on "training maneuvers" just in case they needed to call in the big guns.