Speed of colonization

[Drakon]

Originally Posted by Adam Dray View Post
But really, who else has the resources to do this colonization?

======================================

* Interstellar governments
* Pariah groups
* Exiles
* Rich playboys
* Evil guys, who say "Muhahahaha..."
* Connected nobles....

First off, if we can define the specifics of what gets sent with a colony, a standard colony pack gear toward exploiting local resources, that would go a long way toward defining who can afford colonizing. Earlier in the thread someone stated it would require "200 semi truck trailers of stuff and three tour busses full of people." That really puts cost on the level of planetary governments and even medium sized corporations or small religious cults.

The key is the equipment sent with the colony has to be geared toward resource extraction. Yes, food and if not shelters, at least equipment to manufacture shelters from local resources, has to be included, but the primary focus should be the mining and farming machinery.

Obviously different environments will require different colony packs, different capital equipment sets to extract resources needed to bootstrap a colony. But it still appears that we can get the costs down to be more afordable to a broader range of clients.

I am not seeing governments themselves being a big supporter of overseas colonizations. Why create a potential rival down the road? Other than perhaps to get rid of undesirables, i. e. penal colonies, I am not sure that colonization is in the best interest of a polity.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

There are indications that this is the pattern the Vilani used, as they were not very good at building biospheres. Their growth pattern was hampered by stellar arrangements, Jump being a borderline technology, and because they kept finding other people already there.

A bit stronger than indications. GTIW clearly states that they only colonized worlds with an Affinity (resources and environment factors) greater than 0. Worlds with AFF less than 1 were outposts, only occupied if they closed a travel gap, had military post to "watch" another group (Darmine, Luriani, other troublemakers), or were of scientific interest.

BTW, found a way to convert to World Types, and AFF with the T5SS data.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

So what are the actual numbers? Looks like I need to dig into some Traveller books to figure this out.

If you can get a hold of Marc Miller's Traveller Milieu 0 Campaign hardcover, pages 122-123 has "The Expansion of the Imperium (Years 0 to 200) by Sector". This specific book (ISBN 1-57828-124-5) was not converted to a PDF, sorry. The figures there are for an empire rising from the ashes of old with worlds already inhabited "waiting" to be uplifted.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

Adam Dray, I suggest taking a look at Marc Miller's Traveller Pocket Empires. It works at the level you have been inquiring about.

 

[mike wightman]

Does the T4 disc from FFE have the hardback version of Milieu 0 - if not that is a serious miss since the hardback is a much better and more detailed book.

 

[Garnfellow]

If you can get a hold of Marc Miller's Traveller Milieu 0 Campaign hardcover, pages 122-123 has "The Expansion of the Imperium (Years 0 to 200) by Sector". This specific book (ISBN 1-57828-124-5) was not converted to a PDF, sorry. The figures there are for an empire rising from the ashes of old with worlds already inhabited "waiting" to be uplifted.

So I have the T4 CD, and it has a copy of a Traveller Milieu 0 Campaign book with the ISBN 1-57828-124-5, but it does NOT have this extra content. There's a second Milieu 0 pdf with some additional content, but neither seems to have that "The Expansion of the Imperium (Years 0 to 200) by Sector".

 

[maksimsmelchak]

A bit stronger than indications. GTIW clearly states that they only colonized worlds with an Affinity (resources and environment factors) greater than 0. Worlds with AFF less than 1 were outposts, only occupied if they closed a travel gap, had military post to "watch" another group (Darmine, Luriani, other troublemakers), or were of scientific interest.

BTW, found a way to convert to World Types, and AFF with the T5SS data.

Please tell me more about this AFF affinity rating. I like it.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

 

[maksimsmelchak]

Do they really?

Yes, megacorps are bad, bad organizations. They do not play by the rules. They make them until punished by the Emperor. LOL

Interstellar governments: Sure. I mentioned those.

Check.

Pariah groups and evil guys, who say "Muhahahaha...": Only if they're as big as megacorporations. At that point, they're megacorporations.

No. Megacorporations generally have revenues in the quadrillion range. It doesn't take that to explore and colonize the frontier. I figure that billions would be adequate to that and in a universe as big as the 3I, there must be thousands of quadrillionaires, any of whom could easily put together adequate funds to find and populate a planet.

Not terraforming, mind you. Even with generous funding, terraforming takes a very long time at TL-15. However, maybe not so much by anagathics standards, but certainly by conventional human lifespan standards.

Exiles, rich playboys, connected nobles: I'm not seeing it. Individuals do not have the financial capital to build entire colonies on worlds. Furthermore, the vast scale of system colonization takes enormous logistical ability, something that small groups and individuals do not have. As soon as they develop those facilities, they're basically megacorporations.

Please see above. I see a universe in which sufficiently wealthy individuals and small groups could successfully explore and colonize undeveloped frontier planets.

But let's say that there are a handful of very rich trillionaire playboys and splinter groups out there, ready to play the colony prospecting game with their money. There aren't enough of them to really push the border of frontier space forward with any kind of speed that I'm talking about. Certainly not fast enough that corporations can afford to swoop in and buy them out and make that a viable expansion strategy. Besides, arrogant trillionaire playboys and weird splinter groups probably won't sell.

I don't know about your expansion speed, but there are certainly enough of them to push the borders out a bit. Traveller canon constantly mentions such stories. Good for RPG adventures. See Gateway Sector.

I think ultimately, from what I'm reading, you are imposing the rules of reality on our shared fictional universe in the name of subjective plausibility. It's sci-fi and plausible it will never be until the current rules of science catch up with it.

Thanks for your cool thought-mongering.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

Please tell me more about this AFF affinity rating. I like it.

Resources (RVM) and Affinity (AFF) are two values in GURPS Traveller Interstellar Wars (GTIW). This is my conversion.
A.RVM - First to get RVM. Find the Resources in T5SS and remove the Belts and Gas Giants DM for having a TL of 8 or higher if your planet is of TL 8+. This gives you the original Resources Rolled a value from 2 thru 12. This should be the intrinsic resources of the mainworld you have eliminated the resource value of having Planetoid Belts and Gas Giants.
If an Asteroid Belt, simply subtract 5 (yes, you may have negative numbers). If any other world apply the following conversion.

Resources Rolled	RVM
2	-2
3	-1
4	-1
5	0
6	0
7	0
8	0
9	0
10	1
11	1
12	2

From the RVM you apply modifiers based on environment to get AFF. Will post rest tonight. Must be off for now.

 

[maksimsmelchak]

Resources (RVM) and Affinity (AFF) are two values in GURPS Traveller Interstellar Wars (GTIW).

So, Affinity (Aff) represents two things:

1. Environmental compatibility
2. Resource availability

*** Is that correct? ***

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

Still here.
RVM is pure resources regardless of environment.
AFF factors environment is the combination of Resources and Environment. You may have a resource poor world, but livable, or the reverse or much higher values if you have both resources and a fine environment. AFF can range from -5 (poor asteroid belts) to 11 (resource rich and comfortable environment.
AFF
if Atmosphere 2,3 you are done AFF=RVM

Otherwise....
Add +3

Atmo Mod
Atmo 6,8,D +2
Atmo 5,7,9,E +1
ATmo 4 +0

Hydro
0% +0
1%-29% +1
30%-90% +2
91%-100% +1
Note this is actual percentage which you may wish to roll or use the following
Hydro
0 +0
1,2,A +1
3,4,5,6,7,8,9 +2

Climate
There is a roll for Cimate (Average Temperature) which translates to additional DM of +0, +1, or +2. You could roll off on a 3D6 with
3,18 +0
4,5,16,17 +1
6-15 +2
Note: Some Worlds in T5SS DO have the climate Remarks.
In this case apply the following
Fr - The Climat Roll is 3
Co, Tu - Modify climate roll by -9
Tr, Ho - Modify climate roll by +9

This gives you the AFF, which is a DM to the Population roll in the GTIW table.

 

[maksimsmelchak]

Very cool.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.