Related food for thought: aircraft typically have specific flight paths they are allowed to take as they approach the airport; starships typically seem to drop straight down to the pad. Although I have to wonder -- some of the Trav starships have an atmosphere-capable airframe; these would likely have to take a flight path like a regular airplane.
Starport Landing Pads
- Thread starter Mithras
- Start date
... and another big difference in how the ships interact with the starport is that they are there for 3-4 days, not 3-4 hours...
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Heliports then maybe? If there are any large dedicated heliports. Might be a military helibase or two I suppose (I'm sure I've seen one, Russian iirc, in some pictures somewhere once). Or other VTOL bases like for jump jets...
...or even seaports might be a better model.
Last edited:
The way I try to solve that dilemma is to grab every single scrap I can of things like lounges, shops any of the common areas the PCs would encounter. then they would be there when needed, I would just have to select on that match the tone I was looking for.
An example. Long term project to design a large scale luxury liner.
I have snagged, cruise liner deck plans, planning sheets for different meeting rooms complete with different seating arrangements, bar layouts and occupancies.
This has given me what I need to create formal dining rooms, meeting rooms, lounges, and the various other amenities I need.
For a quick and dirty one off, I could simply grab you of the diagrams from my sources.
I try to gather as wide a selection as I can so I can see how they vary.
Short of somebody package bundles of such things, it is just something you have to do.
I am not often welcome as a game master unfortunately. I want a really detailed background so that I can weave my story, and players never seem interested in anything but enough detail to fight their fight and move on.
Usual Helicopter operations at shared airports "taxi" in ground effect hover; also in most military airfields. They move about from the landing field to the parking areas. In some places, they get towed (if equipped with wheels) by typical aircraft-tow-tractors. Many heliports are single pad with no facilities - the classic E port.
If one wants to look at a variety of airports and/or heliports, Google Earth or Google Maps is your best tool.
http://www.airport-data.com/ has a nice interface that allows filtering for specific airport types. Most pure heliports, however, tend to be little more than a few pads, and a taxiway to the hangars and fuel pump stations.
Last edited:
How about getting rid of circular blast pits altogether? Using a modern 'taxi to the terminal' system frees up all logistical headaches, because we can use what we know about airports today. It can be from that baseline that we can then jig around with details for world climate, population etc.
I saw Miami airport's layout and thought: cool starport!
All those shuttles, gigs, cutters, scouts, free traders and subbies parked up there at the gates. I can see that!
I would envisage an airliner like fast approach, descent over the runway or landing pad, then slow taxi on contra-grav lifters to the appropriate gate. No-one wants to see a 100mton launch hovering over the terminal building...
1000+ ton ships can land in bays on the periphery away from the terminal, and have passengers grav-bussed to them, just like cargo.
I saw Miami airport's layout and thought: cool starport!
All those shuttles, gigs, cutters, scouts, free traders and subbies parked up there at the gates. I can see that!
I would envisage an airliner like fast approach, descent over the runway or landing pad, then slow taxi on contra-grav lifters to the appropriate gate. No-one wants to see a 100mton launch hovering over the terminal building...
1000+ ton ships can land in bays on the periphery away from the terminal, and have passengers grav-bussed to them, just like cargo.
Then again ... (!).... adding the circular landing bays in place of the modern parking ramps used by jets would result in the diagram below. The shielded walls protect the other ships and the terminal itself from any damage caused by the contra-grav lifters of the descending/ascending ship.
I suppose its do-able if limited to smaller craft being controlled for the final descent and ascent by air traffic control.
I suppose its do-able if limited to smaller craft being controlled for the final descent and ascent by air traffic control.
I can't sleep this morning, so I've had random starport thoughts instead.
1) The Champa starport (written by LKW) in JTAS is interesting, the terminal buildings are in the centre, surrounded by a 3m high berm, and the circular landing bays are on the outside of that.. presumably they need no blast walls though. In fact in such a situation large flat aprons would do just fine. Monorails ferry cargo and passengers to the berm, through it or along it.
2) Different types of bay determined by a) duration of stay, and b) type of cargo. Shuttles (both ones destined for the high port, destined for other moons or planets in the system; or those from passenger ships waiting in orbit, such as yachts and subsidized liners) require only a few hours at a gate, much like a jet. At big starports they could taxi to the gate at the terminal.
Longer stay ships such as scouts, PCs adventuring ships, free traders, mercenary ships, safari ships, anything streamlined with mixed or containerized cargo, could land at more distant pads that they hire for the week. Because they are in residence, and numerous, they need to be away from the busy terminal. Transport to a berth can be by personal transport (air/raft, ATV, taxi, etc), by foot or by grav bus. For BIG ships and those with nonstandard cargos, such as dry bulk (grains etc) and liquid bulk (liquid chemicals) the high port is the way to go, pulling up alongside specialized tanking or off-loading equipment. But a large downport may also have a separate area dedicated to bulk cargos, dry and liquid.
Here's a sketch of what this long-stay berthing might look like:
And this is one of those bulk transport 1000+ ton berths on the perimeter.
Airports are my thing, though, so my knowledge of docks and ports is a bit more sparse.
1) The Champa starport (written by LKW) in JTAS is interesting, the terminal buildings are in the centre, surrounded by a 3m high berm, and the circular landing bays are on the outside of that.. presumably they need no blast walls though. In fact in such a situation large flat aprons would do just fine. Monorails ferry cargo and passengers to the berm, through it or along it.
2) Different types of bay determined by a) duration of stay, and b) type of cargo. Shuttles (both ones destined for the high port, destined for other moons or planets in the system; or those from passenger ships waiting in orbit, such as yachts and subsidized liners) require only a few hours at a gate, much like a jet. At big starports they could taxi to the gate at the terminal.
Longer stay ships such as scouts, PCs adventuring ships, free traders, mercenary ships, safari ships, anything streamlined with mixed or containerized cargo, could land at more distant pads that they hire for the week. Because they are in residence, and numerous, they need to be away from the busy terminal. Transport to a berth can be by personal transport (air/raft, ATV, taxi, etc), by foot or by grav bus. For BIG ships and those with nonstandard cargos, such as dry bulk (grains etc) and liquid bulk (liquid chemicals) the high port is the way to go, pulling up alongside specialized tanking or off-loading equipment. But a large downport may also have a separate area dedicated to bulk cargos, dry and liquid.
Here's a sketch of what this long-stay berthing might look like:
And this is one of those bulk transport 1000+ ton berths on the perimeter.
Airports are my thing, though, so my knowledge of docks and ports is a bit more sparse.
Last edited:
middenface
SOC-12
Nice, always had a fondness for the White Dwarf ones.... Theres that Starbase assault one and the one where you have to steal the ship... hmm there's an idea...
Icosahedron
SOC-14 1K
One thing to bear in mind throughout is cost.
Pits, tunnels, subways, etc are expensive. They will only occur when the atmosphere (or lack of it) is too hostile for surface operations, or where the cost/importance of existing surface real estate outweighs the cost of digging.
Another important factor is how damaging (or not) the ship drives are to their surroundings IYTU. If ships land with grav drives that are only dangerous if they land on your toe, there is no need for blast protection and ships can land right outside the terminal. OTOH if your ships are fusion torches that belch out radiation in all directions, they wouldn't be allowed within a mile of the terminal and monorails ending in bunkers would be the norm.
Pits, tunnels, subways, etc are expensive. They will only occur when the atmosphere (or lack of it) is too hostile for surface operations, or where the cost/importance of existing surface real estate outweighs the cost of digging.
Another important factor is how damaging (or not) the ship drives are to their surroundings IYTU. If ships land with grav drives that are only dangerous if they land on your toe, there is no need for blast protection and ships can land right outside the terminal. OTOH if your ships are fusion torches that belch out radiation in all directions, they wouldn't be allowed within a mile of the terminal and monorails ending in bunkers would be the norm.
Another 'cannon' starport is in TTA for Aramis is Leedor which gives a general starport layout but also its relationship to the city, yards and bases. 
One thing I like is that with the mining that is going on the ore shipment Depot is away from the the starport proper itself.
My only wish was how the surface was laid out because just the Naasirka Yards pads are about 450m across.
Mithras I really enjoy your ideas for starports. Hand drawn maps are great starting points and most of the time it's all you and the players need
One thing I like is that with the mining that is going on the ore shipment Depot is away from the the starport proper itself.
My only wish was how the surface was laid out because just the Naasirka Yards pads are about 450m across.
Mithras I really enjoy your ideas for starports. Hand drawn maps are great starting points and most of the time it's all you and the players need
Last edited:
Bulk cargo like grain is shipped in containers across the sea (at least as far as US shipping goes) and probably wouldn't be unloaded 'on site' at a starport unless the port also had it's very own grain storage. The standardized container would probably be shipped to wherever it was needed on the world.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
I'd have to check to be sure but I seem to recall grain shipments out of Churchill here in Canada years back were railcars to the port then augured and conveyored (even simply dumped at some ports, istr seeing such somewhere) into the holds in bulk, to be emptied the same way at the other end. I've always pictured the large shippers doing it that way in Traveller too. Small shippers (under 1000tons) would use containerized cargo yes.
I'm pretty sure the same methods are used for other bulk durables like minerals, petroleum, etc. though some ships need specialized holds depending on the item.
EDIT: ...picture!
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c9/Churchill_Seaport_1996-08-12.jpg
Railcars enter at the bottom rightsi, dump into hoppers that conveyor belt the grain up and out to the silos or the wharf conveyor, and iirc (not clear in pic) on the ship side are extensible booms to pour the grain into the hold. The foreground wing of the large building are silos, the opposite wing might be also (can't see what else it might be). The center section is likely a small bit of offices etc. and a lot of grain handling conveyors and machinery.
I'm pretty sure the same methods are used for other bulk durables like minerals, petroleum, etc. though some ships need specialized holds depending on the item.
EDIT: ...picture!
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c9/Churchill_Seaport_1996-08-12.jpg
Railcars enter at the bottom rightsi, dump into hoppers that conveyor belt the grain up and out to the silos or the wharf conveyor, and iirc (not clear in pic) on the ship side are extensible booms to pour the grain into the hold. The foreground wing of the large building are silos, the opposite wing might be also (can't see what else it might be). The center section is likely a small bit of offices etc. and a lot of grain handling conveyors and machinery.
Last edited:
I'd have to check to be sure but I seem to recall grain shipments out of Churchill here in Canada years back were railcars to the port then augured and conveyored (even simply dumped at some ports, istr seeing such somewhere) into the holds in bulk, to be emptied the same way at the other end. I've always pictured the large shippers doing it that way in Traveller too. Small shippers (under 1000tons) would use containerized cargo yes.
I'm pretty sure the same methods are used for other bulk durables like minerals, petroleum, etc. though some ships need specialized holds depending on the item.
EDIT: ...picture!
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c9/Churchill_Seaport_1996-08-12.jpg
Railcars enter at the bottom rightsi, dump into hoppers that conveyor belt the grain up and out to the silos or the wharf conveyor, and iirc (not clear in pic) on the ship side are extensible booms to pour the grain into the hold. The foreground wing of the large building are silos, the opposite wing might be also (can't see what else it might be). The center section is likely a small bit of offices etc. and a lot of grain handling conveyors and machinery.
Cool, that's really useful!
Actually very little bulk grain is shipped in containers as it is much more efficient "in bulk". Containers are utilized for what used to be regarded as general cargo and can contain pretty much anything up to about 20 tons weight. One of the problems with Traveller trade for me (as a reallife 7 term Merchant) has always been the small sizes of the cargoes being shipped that then take a week to discharge and reload. Typically IRL we could load 200,000 tons of bulk in two to three days max. A few hundred tons woul not take much more than an hour at any decent star port.
Just my 2 Cr
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Worth a few seconds goggling then
I've always figured the week in port required by a Free-Trader is for scrounging up enough dregs of left over freight to fill the hold. The actual loading/unloading taking little time or effort, in most cases.
In fact when I roll for passengers or freight for the week, I split that roll over the week. Not always evenly. I also roll the day (D6+1) that they find a "good" speculative deal. They might score one early and pack freight around it, or late and either be holding some cargo space in anticipation or hope they aren't filled up.
EDIT: It's also why the ship has to provide two week blocks of life support for passengers. They may show up anytime during that week of looking and once booked are aboard. And at the other end they may stay aboard for any unused time of the two weeks booked.
The BIG haulers, and subsidized ships with a scheduled route, have cargo and passengers waiting and only need to take a day to land/dock, process through customs, etc., before being on their way again.
EDIT II: Which come to think (and which should have occurred to me ages ago) those same subsidized ships with a schedule and BIG liners should be saving half the expense on LS for passengers, they only need one week for the time in transit usually. Another advantage over Free-Traders to help the bottom line and permit J2+ operation at LBB2 rates
Last edited:
Very, very nice map, but I don't think Imperiallines would have a concourse to itself (Supposedly it doesn't even service Class B starports, though it may not be able to avoid passing through Feri). It's a very low-key outfit, only two transports per office and offices mostly in Class C starports.
It's more likely to be Oberlindes Lines or Sinzarmes.
Couple of other notes:
Feri is a grav vehicle culture (Well, has the tech level to be one). The starport may not have access roads at all.
Map legends show each concourse to have far more gates than landing pads. Instead of B1-B15 it should be B1-B2, and so on. (You can add a few more landing pads here and there, if you like).
Hans
Last edited:
bulk shipments
Sure any cargo can lead to adventure/danger/difficulties but bulk shipments present a new set of options for the GM and player alike. Try locating the lost mcmuffin in a bulk freighter loaded with sugar or powdered cement. Someone needs to don a vacc suit and play blind man’s bluff with zero visibility within the filled hold, movement is taxing and you need to be tied off in case 'something' goes wrong.
Have you ever smelled a tramp freighter unloading a bulk shipment of dried ground fish meal? That ship will never carry High Passage passengers again! And good luck transporting anything sensitive after unloading a hold full of containers that now smell like your last bulk shipment.
“I wonder how much a Hazmat Cleanout costs at this starport?”
“Well, there go our profits.”
IMTU nationality/species of crew vs. officers is a good general indicator of potential smuggling; the chance increases if the crew is homogeneous and decreases if the officers are set above the crew and watch them to protect the Corp's interests.
Sure any cargo can lead to adventure/danger/difficulties but bulk shipments present a new set of options for the GM and player alike. Try locating the lost mcmuffin in a bulk freighter loaded with sugar or powdered cement. Someone needs to don a vacc suit and play blind man’s bluff with zero visibility within the filled hold, movement is taxing and you need to be tied off in case 'something' goes wrong.
Have you ever smelled a tramp freighter unloading a bulk shipment of dried ground fish meal? That ship will never carry High Passage passengers again! And good luck transporting anything sensitive after unloading a hold full of containers that now smell like your last bulk shipment.
“I wonder how much a Hazmat Cleanout costs at this starport?”
“Well, there go our profits.”
IMTU nationality/species of crew vs. officers is a good general indicator of potential smuggling; the chance increases if the crew is homogeneous and decreases if the officers are set above the crew and watch them to protect the Corp's interests.
Similar threads
