Starport Landing Pads

[dean]

Actually very little bulk grain is shipped in containers as it is much more efficient "in bulk". Containers are utilized for what used to be regarded as general cargo and can contain pretty much anything up to about 20 tons weight. One of the problems with Traveller trade for me (as a reallife 7 term Merchant) has always been the small sizes of the cargoes being shipped that then take a week to discharge and reload. Typically IRL we could load 200,000 tons of bulk in two to three days max. A few hundred tons woul not take much more than an hour at any decent star port.

Just my 2 Cr

You are absolutely right. OTOH, where's the adventure and chance for riches transporting 100,000 cubic meters of sourghum? PC adventurers don't have the kind of ship needed for that kind of cargo and can't compete with the bigs anyway.

I suspect the cargoes you have handled do exist, it just doesn't apply to the level of player characters to consider them.

 

[Starflyer]

Yes I'm very aware it would cramp the pc's action, but always wondered how such inefficient traders can have any market impact at all. The small ship universe is a great setting but the idea of speculative trading in it was pretty lame. Smuggling on the other hand......

 

[Mithras]

Ranke, I just grabbed some names and overlaid them on the Atlanta airport map, but after reading your link, sure, Imperialines doesn't sound right...

If I was doing it right, I'd change alot, but it was just a crude mock up. Glad you like it tho!

Very, very nice map, but I don't think Imperiallines would have a concourse to itself (Supposedly it doesn't even service Class B starports, though it may not be able to avoid passing through Feri). It's a very low-key outfit, only two transports per office and offices mostly in Class C starports.

It's more likely to be Oberlindes Lines or Sinzarmes.

Couple of other notes:

Feri is a grav vehicle culture (Well, has the tech level to be one). The starport may not have access roads at all.

Map legends show each concourse to have far more gates than landing pads. Instead of B1-B15 it should be B1-B2, and so on. (You can add a few more landing pads here and there, if you like).

Hans

 

[Whipsnade]

One of the problems with Traveller trade for me (as a reallife 7 term Merchant) has always been the small sizes of the cargoes being shipped that then take a week to discharge and reload.

The time period requirement which has you mystified applies to player-characters only, as does over 90% of the trade rules in every version of Traveller. How shipping lines actually operate can only be speculated.

The trade rules were written with the idea of player-characters aboard small "tramp" starships scrounging about to earn their monthly "nut" via speculative trade and semi-legal adventures firmly in mind. The trade rules were not written with a 57th Century version of Lykes Lines operations firmly in mind, no matter how much people might wish the opposite to be true.

A real life economist on the TML once explained the seemingly odd disconnect between Traveller's trade rules and the interstellar economy of Traveller's setting thusly:

:"Using Traveller's trade rules to understand Traveller's interstellar economy is like using Indian Ocean dhow traffic to understand oceanic trade between the US, the EU, and China."


Regards,
Bill

 

[MR TEK]

Just like here, if there is enough bulk to be worth shipping it would be shipped in purpose built ships that never carry anything else.

But all sorts of things might accidentally, or on purpose be secreted inside that bulk, and need to be retrieved by our hapless pc's

 

[Andrew Boulton]

Thought I'd play around with a Scout Base (unfinished):



Six bays large enough for a Scout/Courier. Outer section includes fuel, spares, & cargo storage, plus R&R facilities, inner contains offices etc.

 

[rancke]

Six bays large enough for a Scout/Courier. Outer section includes fuel, spares, & cargo storage, plus R&R facilities, inner contains offices etc.

What's a poor Donosev to do when it comes calling?

Seriously, a Scout base would probably be prepared for visits by other ship classes than Scout/Couriers.


Hans

 

[far-trader]

What's a poor Donosev to do when it comes calling?

You wouldn't actually try to land one of those would you?

Seriously, a Scout base would probably be prepared for visits by other ship classes than Scout/Couriers.

The ring looks to have exterior access as well, landing other ship types out there would be the way to go, I expect.

Maybe a bit more height to the center section, for observation and sensor clearances.

...my (tongue in cheek) comment/observation: What category did you answer for that counter in your Trivial Pursuit game Please don't take it seriously

 

[rancke]

You wouldn't actually try to land one of those would you?

Point.

The ring looks to have exterior access as well, landing other ship types out there would be the way to go, I expect.

I suppose that would work. It just seems a rather wasteful design. There's room for six Scout/Couriers. If there's only one or two around, the other berths can't be used for other ship types. There may even be some 100T ships that wouldn't fit (I'm not sure about that), and anything larger will, as you say, have to be provided for outside the ring.


Hans

 

[Selandia]

economic of shipping

The way I see it, the economic of liner passenger shipping (and of starports) on large planet is quite like intercontinental air traffic. Feeder(Dirtport) to Hub(highport); Hub(highport) to Hub(highport); then Hub(highport) to Feeder(dirtport) large starship (with their costly jump drive) to be used only to jump between highport while shuttles are used from highport (may be carrying passengers comming from various planets) to spread passengers to various main airlines operationnal hubs (dirtport) from which passengers could fly regional lines to home.

Essentially, aggregation / de-aggregation of interplanetary passengers would take place at highport acting as hubs, from which shuttle (maybe fairly large space ship with costly aerodynamic shapes) such as those running between Chicago Down and Terra High would bring passengers to a dozen airline "national/regional" hubs, landing on airport runways. BTW, correct the current airports to adapt them to an air transit system where the antigrav is potentially common.

As to Cargo, it is most likely that large bulker would be making port at specialized facilities next to the end using factory (or a rail line leading to it), while general cargo will land at intermodal container terminal. Courrier ships may land at specialized airlines facilities for further delivery (guess that Purolator, UPS and DHL would have starships as they have aircrafts?).

Adventure Class Ships will land...where you want, I am not sure they make economic sense outside of the "rule bubble" created for us to have fun with them. Remember, in CT the game create its reality, we refer to the casual "real" universe to flesh out what is not in the rules. Other rule sets try to translate reality (although in sci-fi...reality is dubious idea) into gaming concept.

Anyway, as long as you have fun, who care if it is not Real City.

Selandia

 

[rancke]

Andrew, it looks like there is enough black space on either side of the base to let you cut away enough to fit the picture to the normal width of a page. Could you please do that? I can make my window broader and then go back to the normal size, but I prefer not to have to do so.


Hans

 

[Andrew Boulton]

I suppose that would work. It just seems a rather wasteful design. There's room for six Scout/Couriers. If there's only one or two around, the other berths can't be used for other ship types. There may even be some 100T ships that wouldn't fit (I'm not sure about that), and anything larger will, as you say, have to be provided for outside the ring.

The Suleiman is only ship in general IISS service that can land, so there's not much point building larger bays. Small craft from other ships will easily fit.

 

[aramis]

The Suleiman is only ship in general IISS service that can land, so there's not much point building larger bays. Small craft from other ships will easily fit.

There is also the Serpent. Which won't fit in those bays.

 

[rancke]

The Suleiman is only ship in general IISS service that can land, so there's not much point building larger bays. Small craft from other ships will easily fit.

The Scout/Courier is the only ship that we know of in IISS service that can land. Surely you don't believe that the only ships classses the IISS has are the ones we've heard about? That's, what, Scout/Couriers, Donosevs, and AHLs? (I can't recall any other classes off-hand (I'm not counting X-boats and their tenders)). They'll have all sorts of support ships to support their operations. Transports to keep the bases supplied, for one example. J6 couriers too, I imagine, unless the IN somehow prevents that. If not, then definitely J5 couriers (Oberlindes Lines has some J5 couriers; if a civilian subsector-wide merchant company has them, the IISS certainly has them too). Transports for moving personnel in bigger job lots than Scout/Couriers can. Escorts for protecting Scout operations outside (and sometimes inside) the Imperium.


Hans

 

[Enoki]

J6 ships? Probably very few in service. You don't get much else other than a jump engine and fuel when you go that route. I'd think the Scout service would stick to J4 or less most of the time just to get some room on their ships for other stuff.

 

[rancke]

J6 ships? Probably very few in service. You don't get much else other than a jump engine and fuel when you go that route.

You get more rapid long-distance communication. If you want more rapid long-distance communication, you go with J6 and buy some other ships to cover your transport needs.

The Scouts is an Imperial organization "equal in stature to the Imperial Army and the Imperial Navy". It can afford to maintain 60,000T heavy cruisers. It should be able to afford both high-performance couriers and roomy transports.

I'd think the Scout service would stick to J4 or less most of the time just to get some room on their ships for other stuff.

You get the highest jump drives you can afford for your couriers and the lowest jump drives that is practical for your transports. It's two different purposes and thus two different design goals.

For an all-purpose ship (a third design goal) I'd go with J3.


Hans

 

[Spinward Scout]

Wouldn't the Imperium just retrofit an X-Boat with J6? Strip it down to basic amenities (or even a low berth). The system is already in place to service the X-Boat, swap pilots, and send it on it's way. Then the Imperium can keep the existence of J6 communications a secret. If it's just data transfer and no personnel or cargo, it would make sense. (If you played or read The Traveller Adventure, you've seen this before, sort of)

 

[rancke]

Wouldn't the Imperium just retrofit an X-Boat with J6? Strip it down to basic amenities (or even a low berth). The system is already in place to service the X-Boat, swap pilots, and send it on it's way. Then the Imperium can keep the existence of J6 communications a secret. If it's just data transfer and no personnel or cargo, it would make sense. (If you played or read The Traveller Adventure, you've seen this before, sort of)

The existence of J6 communication isn't a secret. Even if the rules that allow any PC with enough money to go to any Class A starport and have a jump-6 ship built are disregarded, Imperial Navy couriers forward dispatches from other parts of the Imperium to the TNS in timespans that cannot be explained by anything less than J6. There are three canonical examples of reports from Terra datelined Regina (TNS 1112) with dates that not only require J6 but also astonishingly good luck with jump durations for the runs. (Or possibly fortunate misjumps that brought ther news ahead of shedule on all three runs...)

Anyway, there are millions of people serving in the Imperial Navy. For more than a century a lot of them will have known about Fleet Couriers. Thousands upon thousands of people can't keep a secret for one hundred years and more.


Hans

 

[Xerxeskingofking]

I must point out that those landing bays would make great storage spaces, exercise yards, and other non landing bay useages.

I would expect that a base built like that in an area where they only get one or two scout/couriers, then the other bays would either be full of stuff, or roofed over and converted into something else (or both at the same time).

 

[Andrew Boulton]

There is also the Serpent. Which won't fit in those bays.

Bugger.

<checks>

I'm not sure those plans are accurate...