Starport Landing Pads

[Andrew Boulton]

The Scout/Courier is the only ship that we know of in IISS service that can land. Surely you don't believe that the only ships classses the IISS has are the ones we've heard about? That's, what, Scout/Couriers, Donosevs, and AHLs? (I can't recall any other classes off-hand (I'm not counting X-boats and their tenders)). They'll have all sorts of support ships to support their operations. Transports to keep the bases supplied, for one example. J6 couriers too, I imagine, unless the IN somehow prevents that. If not, then definitely J5 couriers (Oberlindes Lines has some J5 couriers; if a civilian subsector-wide merchant company has them, the IISS certainly has them too). Transports for moving personnel in bigger job lots than Scout/Couriers can. Escorts for protecting Scout operations outside (and sometimes inside) the Imperium.


Hans

AIUI the IISS is deliberately limited to J4; only the Navy, government, and megacorps have access to better.

Most support jobs can be done using XBoat Tenders (possibly upgraded).

 

[Andrew Boulton]

I must point out that those landing bays would make great storage spaces, exercise yards, and other non landing bay useages.

I would expect that a base built like that in an area where they only get one or two scout/couriers, then the other bays would either be full of stuff, or roofed over and converted into something else (or both at the same time).

Yup, almost certainly. They probably have basketball hoops as standard

 

[Andrew Boulton]

(BTW, I've updated the pic).

 

[Mithras]

The IISS use so many scoutships, I think its a neat idea that they would invest in some Type S-only landing terminals. They may have a runway plus an open concrete landing pad for other ships too....

 

[far-trader]

There is also the Serpent. Which won't fit in those bays.

Bugger.

<checks>

I'm not sure those plans are accurate...

:rofl:

...so funny, on so many levels! Thanks for the lol Andrew

 

[aramis]

Bugger.

<checks>

I'm not sure those plans are accurate...

They're not too bad, but you have to remember that the hull is rounded and oval in cross-section. Using sketchup, and the gridded planson page 2 of the layout, I hit 1566m^3 excluding Wings, tail, and engine flare, using 1.5m squares and 6m overall height. In other words, it's about 110Td of hull, and 120 including wings & tail. I get about 120m^3 for wings, BTW.

Note that the hand-drawn plans on the first page do not match the GDW ones on the second... and the GDW ones look to be about 1.5m wider, or so.

So, I took and measured the hand drawn... the "dude" in the hand drawn is probably 1.8m tall, but if so, it's UNDER 100Td by about 30 Td...

 

[HiverLord]

AIUI the IISS is deliberately limited to J4; only the Navy, government, and megacorps have access to better.

[HiverLord: scratches head, thinks, ponders more; smacks head to rattle bits loose, still nuthin' ...:rofl:]
What is the source for this? I've never seen any hint on such a defined limit.
It's probably one I don't have; or more likely just don't remember.

 

[rancke]

AIUI the IISS is deliberately limited to J4; only the Navy, government, and megacorps have access to better.

AIUI?

As I already mentioned, Oberlindes Lines has J5 couriers. If a subsector-wide civilian merchant company has them, the Scouts would sertainly be able to get some if the wanted them.

I did address the possibility that the Scouts for some reason were not allowed to have J6 ships, but personally I can see no justification for that. They are an Imperial organization equal in stature to the Imperial Navy. Why shouldn't they be allowed to have J6 ships if they want them, even if the Imperium is keeping the technology to itself, and it's not really all that likely could keep the technology to itself for over a century.

Most support jobs can be done using XBoat Tenders (possibly upgraded).

Not even close. IIRC they're J1, which reduces their utility tremendously. In addition, they can't land, so are hampered by the need to carry shuttles when it comes to servicing Scout activities in any place lacking orbital facilities.


Hans

 

[Selandia]

info is power

Information is a high value commodity.

Both early steamship services and airlines could not survive without mail subsidies. Traveler's OTU Government will subsidize merchant just on that ground.

You are a distributor on Ared VII industrial world depending largely of food import from Balma III. What if you could know before everybody else that a bad harvest on Caledon IV, the main supplier of Derma V mean that Balma III could divert its production of wheat to Derma V for 150 % of the price obtained on Ared? You clean up the future wheat market on Ared's stock exchange. A J-5 or J-6 courrier could allow you to beat by a jump the J-4 X-boat.

The point here is not to draw a map with jump route between those worlds to justify J-5 or J-6 private courier on the ground of an gaming anecdote, it is to illustrate in traveler words a fundamental truth: Information is power and somebody is willing to pay for it (and provide so many adventure for your players) or to pay to prevent its delivery (who said those adventures would not be dangerous).

Selandia

 

[rancke]

You are a distributor on Ared VII industrial world depending largely of food import from Balma III. What if you could know before everybody else that a bad harvest on Caledon IV, the main supplier of Derma V mean that Balma III could divert its production of wheat to Derma V for 150 % of the price obtained on Ared? You clean up the future wheat market on Ared's stock exchange. A J-5 or J-6 courrier could allow you to beat by a jump the J-4 X-boat.

Which is why, assuming J6 ships are not available to ordinary civilians, merchants will be willing to pay those who do have access to J6 communication for suchs information. Ww know the IN has J6 couriers. That means there are several admirals in each subsector with access to J6 communication. Presumably the Imperial Bureaucracy wants to get its orders out and its reports back as expeditiously as possible, so they will go by "NavyNet", which means a number of high-ranking Imperial officials in each subsector having access. It's generally assumed that the megacorporations are powerful enough to secure the use of J6 couriers even if it's officially illegal, so that's several high-ranking megacorporate officials per subsector (times 13).

Two people can keep a secret if one of them is dead. There's no point in keeping J6 restricted to six or eight dozen people per subsector. Even if it's possible, which I doubt. Not for over a century.

And then I repeat the point I made earlier. Even if the Imperium do keep J6 for its own use, the IISS is an Imperial organization.


Hans

 

[dean]

Aiui

As I Understand It, FWIW. YMMV.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

The bays are ~44m long (slightly more diagonally), so Serpents should fit.

 

[Dragoner]

The drawing gave me a good idea for a landing pad shaped like a speedloader for a revolver, considering there is no up or down in space.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

They are an Imperial organization equal in stature to the Imperial Navy.

In theory, perhaps. In reality, not even close. How many aircraft carriers does the USCG have?

They simply don't *need* J6 ships, generally speaking. And the Navy doesn't want people nibbling away at their speed advantage.

Not even close. IIRC they're J1, which reduces their utility tremendously. In addition, they can't land, so are hampered by the need to carry shuttles when it comes to servicing Scout activities in any place lacking orbital facilities.

As I said, some would need upgrading.

Because XBs/XBTs aren't streamlined, all Scout Bases will need orbital facilities anyway, and/or a few small craft.

 

[rancke]

They simply don't *need* J6 ships, generally speaking. And the Navy doesn't want people nibbling away at their speed advantage.

On the other hand, even assuming the Imperium could actually retain control that speed advantage (a very iffy assumption IMO, and one not supported by any ship design rules), some high-ranking Imperial nobles and ministers might not want the IN to have a monopoly on that speed advantage. We know that the Emperor has a J6 courier network of his own, but the next couple of tiers of Imperial nobility may not know that.

Because XBs/XBTs aren't streamlined, all Scout Bases will need orbital facilities anyway, and/or a few small craft.

All Scout bases co-located with X-boat facilities would have access to orbital facilites and small craft, as long as the X-boat tenders weren't busy collecting and servicing X-boats. You know, doing their job. Still doesn't mean streamlined transports ships won't be more versatile and in some cases (when there are no X-boat facilities around or they're busy) essential.

All that aside, I still don't understand why you're so absolutely certain the Scouts won't have any ship types that hasn't already been mentioned. It seems a very odd and restrictive notion.


Hans

 

[PVernon]

Bugger.

<checks>

I'm not sure those plans are accurate...

Andrew, check mine either on the Apocrypha CD or my web site. Mine are accurate.



EDIT: Only 2 pages behind

 

[FreeTrav]

Sadly, I see no picture there...

 

[Enoki]

In theory, perhaps. In reality, not even close. How many aircraft carriers does the USCG have?

They simply don't *need* J6 ships, generally speaking. And the Navy doesn't want people nibbling away at their speed advantage.

More to the point is that while most major navies today could build ships that go 50 to 60 knots or more they don't. There is a trade off between the utility that a ship has (what it is equipped to do) and how much of it is just to make it go faster.

A great example of this is the US Wampanog class built right after the Civil War. The ships were virtually all machinery and could approach 20 knots at a time when typical steam ships were barely able to do 10. The Wanpanogs were intended as commerce raiders but, their short range, lack of armament, and generally poor accomidations made them a paper threat.
The Royal Navy built three 'replies,' the Shah class frigates. These ships were better balanced and nearly as fast. But, they were so expensive to build and operate they had very short careers.

I think the same thing applies here. There are few occasions when more speed will really be decisive. In naval vessels it is great for running away but really not to important if you intend to stay and fight.

 

[MCEvans]

In theory, perhaps. In reality, not even close. How many aircraft carriers does the USCG have?

The counter question to that is how many icebreakers does the USN have?

Different missions, different ships, same technology.

I would be very surprised if both the IISS Intelligence branch and the Courier Service did not have J6 ships available solely for there use with out having to rely on an other service for transport.


EDIT: BTW like the bay/pod drawing.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

All that aside, I still don't understand why you're so absolutely certain the Scouts won't have any ship types that hasn't already been mentioned. It seems a very odd and restrictive notion.

I certainly can't rule it out, but there aren't many jobs the IISS need to do that can't be done using the ships they have (plus standard small craft).

GT:FI says the IISS do use J6 couriers identical to the Navy ones, but I doubt they'd regularly visit Scout Bases that couldn't support them.