Starport Law Level

[Ronnke]

The rules as written, state the Law Level for starports is 1. This means you could walk into a starport lounge/terminal with a duffle-bag full of high explosive and a backpack canister of sarin gas...and be perfectly within your rights to do so. Am I missing something, or is this considered the Traveller canon?

If canon, then I imagine terror groups and rival factions have a field day in Imperial starports. The starport bars would resemble Mos Eisley cantina, with drunken spacers escalating the barroom brawl to deadly shootouts, which could flow into the passenger terminals, etc.

 

[Whipsnade]

The rules as written, state the Law Level for starports is 1. This means you could walk into a starport lounge/terminal with a duffle-bag full of high explosive and a backpack canister of sarin gas...and be perfectly within your rights to do so. Am I missing something, or is this considered the Traveller canon?

Why not try reading all the rules as written regarding Law Level?

Here, I'll give you a start. CT'81, LBB:3, page 11, bottom of left column:

Note: Law Level is also the general throw for police or enforcement harassment for violations. Thus, on a world with Law Level 4, the throw to avoid arrest when encountering an enforcement agent such as a customs official or policeman is 4+

Read all the rules connected with Law Level. Read the "Encounters" chapter too. Read about starports also, especially on the free movement of goods between starports but not between worlds. Try to understand that Law Level is far more than just "What booms booms can I open carry?"

Law Level 1 means you can have a shipment of C4 or sarin in your hold because you're shipping it, it doesn't necessarily mean you have both in your pockets while ordering lunch.

Here's another quote from CT'81, LBB:3 you should read too. Page 7, paragraph eight this time:

At times, the referee (or the players) will find combinations of features which may seem contradictory or unreasonable. Common sense should rule in such cases; either the players or referee will generate a rationale which explains the situation, or an alternative description should be made.

In other words, think for yourself instead of blindly following the rules. The rules are tools, not handcuffs.

 

[Ronnke]

I have read lots to find some clarification, even going to resources like GURPS Traveller: Starports, which specifically state starports facilities are CR 5 or TLL 8. GURPS Traveller is the only resource I have found that actually makes that distinction.

Elsewhere, the implication is, as long as it's not a nuke it's fine. This is also the view of one of my players who has played since CT.

From the traveller wiki:

Although, strictly speaking, the law level of the starport permits any weapon to be carried openly, the Imperial laws against property damage, murder and extortion are rigidly enforced by Imperial authorities, backed up by Imperial military forces as necessary. The owners of most businesses frown on open displays of weaponry and will usually refuse to serve walking arsenals... and are usually fairly well equipped themselves.

My common sense falls inline with the GURPS ruling, but I am curious as to what was intended for the setting.

 

[aramis]

[m;]The Wiki is not canonical.[/m;]

Using it to "prove a point" is a detrimental action.

Also, cite your source, Ronnke, for LL1.

Also note, T5 trumps prior editions; GT isn't the OTU.

 

[Whipsnade]

From the traveller wiki...

The Traveller Wiki should be taken with a couple dTons of salt. Hans is no longer with us and any kind of fact checking was buried with him. What's more, the "elves" busy at "work" there now have little idea of what they should actually be doing; Making entries in the Wiki derived from published materials and not spamming the Wiki with their pet projects.

As for your player, he's blowing smoke up your rear end in order to gain an advantage over you in play. Point him to Page 7 Paragraph 8, tell him you're the referee, and that you're going with common sense just like GDW said you should.

Have fun playing!

P.S. I need to mention how much I love the art you've kindly shared with us here. Especially Outward Bound. Thank you.

 

[Timerover51]

The following quote comes from the article on Champa Interstellar Starport, written by Loren Wiseman, in JTAS No. 7

Although , strictly speaking, the law level of the starport permits any weapon to be carried openly, the laws against property damage, murder, and extortion are rigidly enforced, by the battalion of Imperial Marines (tech level 15) barracked at the scout base, if necessary. The owners of most businesses frown on open display of weaponry, and will usually refuse to serve walking arsenals (bear in mind that they can also have any weaponry, and are legally permitted to defend their property if attacked).

While not all starports will have a battalion of Imperial Marines on call, it would be safe to say that the starport will have a very efficient security service, made up of Imperial veterans, specifically to deal with over-armed visitors.

 

[Ronnke]

Also, cite your source, Ronnke, for LL1.

MgT(v2) p226:

Starports operate according to Imperial Law (equivalent to Law Level 1 for most items, and forbidding all use of psionics).

 

[Timerover51]

[m;]The Wiki is not canonical.[/m;]

Using it to "prove a point" is a detrimental action.

Also, cite your source, Ronnke, for LL1.

Also note, T5 trumps prior editions; GT isn't the OTU.

The following statement appears regarding Law Level in the 1977 edition of Book 3 Worlds and Adventures, which may be the source of the confusion. It appears at the bottom of page 7.

Law level does not apply to persons and ships at a starport, as local laws do not apply in such areas.

 

[Timerover51]

My apologies for the additional post, but the following comes from the Mongoose Traveller book on Starports, page 9.

Class A, B, C Starports are considered to have Law Level 5; Class D Starports are Law Level 4; and Class E Starports are Law Level 3.

I am uncertain as to how much of Mongoose Traveller is viewed as canon.

 

[aramis]

My apologies for the additional post, but the following comes from the Mongoose Traveller book on Starports, page 9.



I am uncertain as to how much of Mongoose Traveller is viewed as canon.

For the OTU? Only that which is labeled as "Third Imperium"... and even that with a grain of salt almost as big as needed for the Wiki.

The "error rate" is high in published works from Mongoose versus the T5SS, which is the defacto standard (and is the basis for the updates on Travellermap.com)... (Especially since most of the errors involved are pre-T5SS data.)

As for the core rules? The MGT core rules have almost no bearing on the OTU. The bases allowed are different. The world gen sequence is different (resulting in different statistical patterns). The LL rules are badly badly broken in MGT1...

 

[aramis]

My apologies for the additional post, but the following comes from the Mongoose Traveller book on Starports, page 9.



I am uncertain as to how much of Mongoose Traveller is viewed as canon.

That's taken from earlier material. I recall LL 3 being stated somewhere else, as well.

But MgT Starports isn't canonical unless it bears the 3I logo. Nor, technically, is the Core Rulebook.

 

[Ronnke]

As for the core rules? The MGT core rules have almost no bearing on the OTU.

So, what was the actual intention for the OTU regarding Imperial starport law levels? I don't have T5 so I can't look it up.

 

[Timerover51]

The following statement referring to starport Law Level appears in the 1981 Edition of Book 3 Worlds and Adventures on page 7.

In nearly all cases, a planet will consider that a starport is extraterritorial, and not subject to local law, but will also enforce strict entrance and exit controls

Emphasis added.

The same statement appears in The Traveller Book and Starter Traveller.

I have not yet found in any of the Traveller version that I have on my computer any reference to a Law Level for a starport.

 

[mike wightman]

In 77 edition it says:

Law level does not apply to persons and ships at a starport, as local laws do not apply in such areas

also page 7 oddly enough

 

[atpollard]

The rules as written, state the Law Level for starports is 1. This means you could walk into a starport lounge/terminal with a duffle-bag full of high explosive and a backpack canister of sarin gas...and be perfectly within your rights to do so. Am I missing something, or is this considered the Traveller canon?

If canon, then I imagine terror groups and rival factions have a field day in Imperial starports. The starport bars would resemble Mos Eisley cantina, with drunken spacers escalating the barroom brawl to deadly shootouts, which could flow into the passenger terminals, etc.

"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." - Robert A. Heinlein

While there is a potential for violent escalations, it is this potential that will lead to citizens equipped to deal with it. At LL 9, the chance of a bar fight involving a weapon is sufficiently low that a baseball bat may be all that is needed to keep order. At LL 1, you may be asked to check your weapons at the door or leave with Combat Armored Police and Battledress SWAT teams capable of responding if needed.

However, without getting into politics, parts of the world function like this now. It is possible to shop at a market for fresh produce and see a man with a RPG. I once visited a Caribbean Port on a cruise and shopped under the protection of soldiers in Body Armor and Full Automatic weapons (I actually never felt LESS likely to be robbed.)

As the Ref, YOU get to decide how it works. That's part of the fun and a chance to create local flavor.

 

[Spinward Scout]

"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." - Robert A. Heinlein

Heinlein had good intentions with this quote, I think. But it really doesn't agree with much of American history, including the current situation in Chicago.

 

[atpollard]

Heinlein had good intentions with this quote, I think. But it really doesn't agree with much of American history, including the current situation in Chicago.

My intent in quoting it was not to make a political statement, I don't care if it is true (like the possibility of FTL travel). I was using it as a LITERARY source for the tone of the genre.

In other words, I think that is how Starports at LL 1 are INTENDED to function ... just like in a Heinlein SF book.

 

[Ronnke]

So, I guess in the OTU, the duffle bag of high explosives and sarin gas in the starport lounge is, with the exception of GM fiat, perfectly legal and the way Marc intended. Interesting...

It makes it incredibly easy to cause willful damage/violence to the Imperium. I imagine the TAS news feeds would be full of reports of terrorist bombings or even the bringing down of a highport for that matter.

I'm not going to run my games like this, but it is interesting to contemplate.

 

[atpollard]

So, I guess in the OTU, the duffle bag of high explosives and sarin gas in the starport lounge is, with the exception of GM fiat, perfectly legal and the way Marc intended. Interesting...

It makes it incredibly easy to cause willful damage/violence to the Imperium. I imagine the TAS news feeds would be full of reports of terrorist bombings or even the bringing down of a highport for that matter.

I'm not going to run my games like this, but it is interesting to contemplate.

Since LL 1 appears only in MgT 2ed and is contradicted in multiple other sources (including MgT 1ed), LL 1 may be a typo.

Starports have typically allowed bigger guns than the city streets, but not quite backpacks of C4 and poison gas.

There will, of course, be pallets of C4 being shipped as cargo from world to world and Mercenary Companies with Chemical Rounds for their MBTs passing through. That is the nature of a port. That is not expected in the Starport Coffee Shop.

I personally use around LL 3.
The MgT 1ed rules looked good as well.

As a practical matter, when your ship lands on a world with 7000 people and you are speaking to the part-time SPA port master in his coveralls as he repairs his old jeep beside a rusty metal prefab building that is the 'starport' and stares out at the 2 meter tall chain link fence that defines the 'Imperial' territory. What EXACTLY is he going to do about your PGMP-13?

 

[welsh]

Law Level is a single number that can be used to represent all kinds of things. The fact that a chart in the rules defines law level in terms of what kinds of weapons are permitted should not be taken as some kind of definitive rule as to what Law Level 1 means.

There is a distinction, for example, between possession and carrying of a weapon. Laws may approximate law level 1 because possession is permitted, but carrying may not be. Starports may allow possession of all kinds of weapons because weapons move through those starports in the course of trade. This shouldn't be taken to mean that carrying weapons throughout the starport would necessarily be accepted. Common sense applies.

All starports are not the same. This "one size fits all" approach to the game takes away all the flavour we get from the endless variety of worlds and governments and laws and cultures. Yes, starports are run by an Imperial Starport Authority (within the Imperium, anyway), but this doesn't mean they have consistent rules. I believe there is a canonical reference to starport regulations differing from one starport to the next, but I can't place it ... is it in T5?

Anyway, consider a Class D starport that is rarely visited and has a very small full-time staff. It's entirely plausible that you could carry weapons through that starport since at any given time, you would likely be the only visitors.

Consider, on the other hand, a busy class A starport that sees many visitors daily. Are you are not carrying weapons through that starport? Not likely.

And what about local political conditions? Think you're carrying weapons in the starport on Efate? No way.