Starship Missions: Scheduled vs Unscheduled + Cargo vs Freight

[robject]

Just take these two discriminators and matrix them. Do we have clear definitions and examples of the results?

	Cargo​	Freight​
Scheduled​	Merchants ("Travelling Salesman")​	Freighters (Tukera AT, Oberlindes CT)​
Unscheduled​	Traders​	Transports (Al Morai's World-class Transports)​

"Cargo" -- here the rules use the Merchant Prince assumption that it's speculative.
"Frieght" -- here the rules use the M.P. assumption that this is carried at a flat or contracted rate. For players, that's Cr1,000 a ton for example.

What the heck is a Scheduled Cargo carrier?

Does a Subsidized Merchant by definition carry "unscheduled" freight? I.E. it's contracted to visit a set of worlds, but perhaps isn't required to visit on a specific schedule?

 

[McPerth]

What the heck is a Scheduled Cargo carrier?

Well, I guess this is a scheduled freighter that, either because it has not filled his hold or by planning, they instead carry cargo (oned goods) for speculation.

In MT:SOM it's said the large companies (e.g. Tukera) are mostly speculation companies, that move owned cargoes to speculate with them. My guess is they usually store them, and probably even decide the prices by producing shortages or plenty of a specific cargo.

In another source (IIRC MT:Subsidized Merchant supplement from Seeker) it was told that many a subidized captain just sold himself hold tonnage to speculate with goods. This way, instead of the selling profits being shared with the subsidizer, only the freight cost is, while the full selling income is for the ship owner. I guess, if subsidized are considered scheduled, as they cover specific lines) this practice would be in betweein the scheduled freight and scheduled cargo...

 

[whartung]

I would say a scheduled cargo carrier is like a train. Simply, it runs on a schedule, full or not, to designated stops. Miss the ship, you get to wait or find other arrangements.

I would imagine, ideally, that most modern container ships are "scheduled". It's the companies job to get all of the cargos lined up to be ready for the ship. This is in order to keep utilization up, and "know" when and where ships are, and what facilities they will use.

Obviously, there is likely some slack in those schedules (in contrast to a train, which tend to be pretty tight but that's because of the shared track issues with them).

 

[whulorigan]

What the heck is a Scheduled Cargo carrier?

I would say a scheduled cargo carrier is like a train. Simply, it runs on a schedule, full or not, to designated stops. Miss the ship, you get to wait or find other arrangements.

I would imagine, ideally, that most modern container ships are "scheduled". It's the companies job to get all of the cargos lined up to be ready for the ship. This is in order to keep utilization up, and "know" when and where ships are, and what facilities they will use.

Obviously, there is likely some slack in those schedules (in contrast to a train, which tend to be pretty tight but that's because of the shared track issues with them).

Yes, that fits the definition of "Scheduled". But "Cargo" in T5 is defined as speculative trade items owned by the ship owner in the hope of turning a profit by buying low and selling high. That doesn't seem conducive to a "Scheduled" route. I think that is the premise behind Robject's question. Is there an existing ship type that fits that mission profile?

What was the description of the Type-TI 2000 ton Imperial Lines Transport?

Does a Subsidized Merchant by definition carry "unscheduled" freight? I.E. it's contracted to visit a set of worlds, but perhaps isn't required to visit on a specific schedule?

Perhaps. But its name ("Merchant") seems to imply the "Scheduled Cargo" ship mentioned above, per T5 definition. McPerth's comment upthread seems to be a possibility as well - a ship which has been subsidized to ply a scheduled route, but which "rents" a significant percentage of its own cargo space to its "Owner" at the standard freight rate, who then uses it to carry speculative cargo. I am not sure how/if the economics of that would work out, though.

In T5 Unscheduled Freight Ships are called "Transports".

 

[AnotherDilbert]

I see no problem, or need for any matrix. Yes, ownership of the ship and ownership of the cargo are independent variables, but they have nothing to do with a ship type. E.g. a free trader company can operate a Subbie, and a subsidised company can operate a Type A.

I would say a scheduled cargo carrier is like a train. Simply, it runs on a schedule, full or not, to designated stops. Miss the ship, you get to wait or find other arrangements.

Yes, quite, and it has nothing to do with ownership of the train or who owns the cargo.

A scheduled speculative trader would be like a travelling salesman of yore, that travelled his route and peddled his goods. Keeping a fixed schedule would make it easier to find customers, since people would be waiting for him when he arrived rather than him having to hunt for people to trade with. An interstellar bazaar?

 

[whulorigan]

I see no problem, or need for any matrix.

The primary reason for the matrix is that the T5 Starship Design Sequence uses such a matrix to assign ship mission codes.

Yes, ownership of the ship and ownership of the cargo are independent variables, but they have nothing to do with a ship type. E.g. a free trader company can operate a Subbie, and a subsidised company can operate a Type A.

Agreed. Which would mean that a mission code might be reassigned to a ship based on its intended use, rather than a specific class of vessel. Much as a naval vessel might be reclassified as its use within a fleet changes over time with technological advancement or refitting.

A scheduled speculative trader would be like a travelling salesman of yore, that travelled his route and peddled his goods. Keeping a fixed schedule would make it easier to find customers, since people would be waiting for him when he arrived rather than him having to hunt for people to trade with. An interstellar bazaar?

 

[robject]

A scheduled speculative trader would be like a travelling salesman of yore, that travelled his route and peddled his goods. Keeping a fixed schedule would make it easier to find customers, since people would be waiting for him when he arrived rather than him having to hunt for people to trade with. An interstellar bazaar?

That's clever!

 

[whulorigan]

Cyrano Jones.

 

[whulorigan]

The full T5 Ship Mission Identifier Matrix for commercial vessels is as follows:

Type / Qualifier​	Mission​
Scheduled Passenger	Liner
Unscheduled Passenger	Packet
Scheduled Cargo	Merchant
Unscheduled Cargo	Trader
Scheduled Freight	Freighter
Unscheduled Freight	Transport
Recreation Charter	Safari
Active Charter	Expedition
Luxury Charter	Yacht

 

[AnotherDilbert]

The primary reason for the matrix is that the T5 Starship Design Sequence uses such a matrix to assign ship mission codes.

It makes very little sense to me. Technically they are all just (very) oversized vans with different interiors.

Technical classifications that described the ship (not just the operator) would be something like:
Small, Medium, or Large;
[ Streamlined (can land) or Unstreamlined ];
Long Ranged (J5-6?) or Short Ranged (J1-2?) (J drive);
[ Fast or Slow (M drive) ];
[ optional: Unarmed, Armed, or Armoured;
&c ]
Freighter, Trader, or Liner (proportion of staterooms) or Ship (neither much of cargo nor passengers);


So a Type A would be a Small Streamlined Short Slow Trader.
A Type M (Sub Liner) would be a Small Slow Liner, or just Small Liner if we don't care how fast it is.
A Type S would be a Small Streamlined Short Slow Ship.
A Type T would be a Small Streamlined Armed Ship.


And I have reinvented the QSP, but clumsier...

 

[kilemall]

Should be charters for freight, cargo and passengers, right?

And where is mail here? Possibly a subset of freight?

 

[whartung]

Yes, that fits the definition of "Scheduled". But "Cargo" in T5 is defined as speculative trade items owned by the ship owner in the hope of turning a profit by buying low and selling high.

The SHIP is scheduled, the payloads less so. Obviously, routine clients would coordinate their shipments with scheduled services, but you can have speculative cargo on a scheduled ship.

 

[kilemall]

The SHIP is scheduled, the payloads less so. Obviously, routine clients would coordinate their shipments with scheduled services, but you can have speculative cargo on a scheduled ship.

That brings up a whole new level of megacorps manipulation and fights, particularly with goods blossoming out from IND worlds that travel well.

The producing corps would be looking to maintain their profit margin via freight service and their local subsector distribution networks.

Lines could be seeking to lock in their next 10 year contract and using speculative buys as a bargaining chip, or outright supporting upstart corps in buying their inventory and seeking better then freight profit margins. As such they could potentially be competitors, at least for a time.

Another option to scheduled speculation is a commodity run with high freshness and first to market value. Especially if there is a specific season/ astrographic conditions such that the supply is not steady enough to have standard rates. I’m thinking tea clippers as the historical example.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

I think the point of the Starship Mission profile is to make you think through what you want from a ship before you design it, so you have a specific profile in mind, not just choosing components just because they might be "good to have".

Note that the mission profile is the first step in the design process.

Once the ship leaves the shipyard the mission profile is mostly meaningless. A few decades later, it is certainly meaningless.

 

[whartung]

"Mission Profile Year 50: Scrap source"

 

[tjoneslo]

And where is mail here?

According to modern day definitions, mail is always cargo.

From several of the google searches on this Freight goes by truck or train, whereas cargo goes by ship or plane. So this doesn't help much.

 

[kilemall]

According to modern day definitions, mail is always cargo.

From several of the google searches on this Freight goes by truck or train, whereas cargo goes by ship or plane. So this doesn't help much.

Think we have to use the game terms and not real world per se.

Railroads pretty much never own their cargo unless it is something like ore/timber/steel/coal railroads owned by producers or users in some aspect of vertical integration.

I render mail as not just data dump transfers but also high value parcel.

 

[Spinward Flow]

What the heck is a Scheduled Cargo carrier?

The ship has a preset route and it just follows that route regardless (like a train on rails, effectively). The timing won't be perfect (because jump durations vary from 150-175 hours per jump and not all jump shadows are the same size, so maneuver times can vary too) ... but there's a kind of "mark you calendar" effect going on where parties that want to ship to the "next destination" on the itinerary will be able to plan accordingly.

Contrast this with a Tramp Cargo carrier.
There is no preset route.
Where the ship goes next is entirely determined by where is the most profitable place to go from HERE at this time while the ship is here conducting business.
If there's a speculative cargo that they can buy cheap here that has high value on a Non-industrial world, they may divert there to sell that speculative cargo.
If there aren't enough cargo and passengers wanting to go to Destination A, the ship may switch to Destination B instead that more cargo and passengers are wanting to go to instead.

The Scheduled Cargo carrier is following a preset route.
The Tramp Cargo carrier is going wherever the economic winds are blowing "best" right now.



Being chartered (or not) is another layer on top of that.

A Scheduled Cargo carrier could be chartered to run an entire preset route.
That way, they aren't subject to the ups and downs of the markets on each of the worlds they visit. They just GO and drop off/pick up whatever is there and get paid regardless of however much there is to load up and drop off. They're basically the "mailman" making rounds and delivering on a preset route ... but they're doing it under contract to Someone Else™ who wants to have the ship making those rounds in that order so as to move those passengers and goods (however much there is of both from each stop).

A Tramp Cargo carrier can fly in, announce that they're "available for charter" to wherever the contracting party wants the ship to go to on a First Come First Serve basis. Whoever ponies up to pay for the charter first hires the ship ... and then it's the contractor's responsibility to fill the manifest going to that destination that the contractor wanted to get to. If there are no takers, then the Tramp Cargo carrier can try to drum up some individual business to fill their cargo hold and then use that to decide where they want to go to next. Once the decision on next destination is made, they announce and open availability to passengers wanting to travel to the announced destination.

Point being that charters can be a long term thing (we're hiring your ship for the season/year) or it can be an ad hoc one off thing (we're hiring your ship to go to a single destination). Subsidized or not makes not difference for this. Subsidized ships can operate on a preset schedule or they can operate as tramps.

It really just depends ... although multi-destination charters tend to come with preset routes chosen by the contracting party (for whatever reasons suit them best).



The trick is knowing where the break even point of cost vs revenue is under different working conditions with your ship in order to ensure that you earn more profits than losses over time. Charters may be "guaranteed money" ... but if you aren't buying up any of the cargo space from your contractors (net Cr100 per ton to them) aboard your own ship under charters, you'll have no free cargo space of your own to speculate cargo with yourself. So it can sometimes come down to how much of a "sure thing" versus a "gambling thing" you want to engage in when it comes to offering charters.



Also consider that big ships can't necessarily load and unload in "zero time" per se. Once ships reach a certain size, it can take them long enough to unload and load to affect the tempo of their Destinations Per Year, slowing them down enough that on an annualized basis they aren't as profit efficient as a smaller/faster/nimbler ship with quicker turn around times. You can wind up with all kinds of edge cases at different technology levels, map considerations (which systems are where), population and trade codes ... it can all get REALLY complex in a hurry!



And mail is "dedicated cargo space" that can't be used for other purposes.

 

[McPerth]

According to modern day definitions, mail is always cargo.

This is not consistent with "cargo " definition as whulorigan tols is given in T5...

But "Cargo" in T5 is defined as speculative trade items owned by the ship owner in the hope of turning a profit by buying low and selling high.

 

[whartung]

This is not consistent with "cargo " definition as whulorigan tols is given in T5...

Y'all are being REALLY pedantic on "freight" vs "cargo". I think for most of this conversation, perhaps "stuff" is a better term to avoid the absconded and overloaded terms.