Strange New Worlds

[Malenfant]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
It does say that on the chart, but if you read the description on pg. 7 of LBB3, you'll see that the code is an exponent of 10, which means that Pop 1 can't be 1-9.

So, uh, how exactly do you get a world with no population at all? If UWP 0 is supposed to be 10^1, then by that logic all UWP 0 worlds should have 1-9 people on them and it's impossible to have a world with 0 pop.

Maybe there should be a special code for actual zero inhabitants (like 'X') - that happens when the modified pop roll is less than 0. That said, it can't ever be less than zero if book 3 is to be believed, since in there Population is a straight 2d-2 roll that is unmodified by anything (which is another reason why there's so many nonsensical worlds, since apparently the local environment doesn't affect the attractiveness of the world to colonists at all). That said, Book 6 does have modifiers if the world is in the inner or outer zones and if it isn't atm 0,5,6,or 8, but still assumes that there's no modifier in the habitable zone.

But why should LBB3 take precedence over LBB6 anyway?

 

[Malenfant]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
It does say that on the chart, but if you read the description on pg. 7 of LBB3, you'll see that the code is an exponent of 10, which means that Pop 1 can't be 1-9.

So, uh, how exactly do you get a world with no population at all? If UWP 0 is supposed to be 10^1, then by that logic all UWP 0 worlds should have 1-9 people on them and it's impossible to have a world with 0 pop.

Maybe there should be a special code for actual zero inhabitants (like 'X') - that happens when the modified pop roll is less than 0. That said, it can't ever be less than zero if book 3 is to be believed, since in there Population is a straight 2d-2 roll that is unmodified by anything (which is another reason why there's so many nonsensical worlds, since apparently the local environment doesn't affect the attractiveness of the world to colonists at all). That said, Book 6 does have modifiers if the world is in the inner or outer zones and if it isn't atm 0,5,6,or 8, but still assumes that there's no modifier in the habitable zone.

But why should LBB3 take precedence over LBB6 anyway?

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Malenfant:

I'm sorry, I have to laugh when I hear that sort of response.

C'mon, Mal. Why insult the guy? Or, were your words directed towards my response?

Where's the imagination involved in coming up with a ludicrous explanation for a tiny rockball that's less massive than Earth's moon yet has a habitable N2/O2 atmosphere, orbits a red giant, and has tens of billions of people on it frolicking around in the really low gravity?

Actually, I've never seen a Traveller UPP I didn't like.

I think it's interesting. It's a puzzle. Take these codes and try to make them make sense in a science fiction setting.

Makes for some damn interesting strange new worlds to travel to.

Obvioulsy, you disagree. But, me, I've enjoyed strange UPPs for years.

Heck, I like to run 'em through Heaven & Earth and see what it spits out.

My characters are on Aramanx right now. The hex my characters are in is 101 degrees F at Noon and 1 degree F at midnight.

I thought that was so incredibly interesting. Think of what the cultural clothing is like, with parts that can be discarded and re-attached. It's probably a damn windy area too. Storms are a bitch.

It's an alien world.

I probably wouldn't have gotten that creative on my own. But because the H&E design process spit that out (using World Builder's planet detail rules), I've got this very interesting place to describe to my players.

Now, they've got to keep up with their clothing requirements on the world while they're there--a detail that makes the universe that much more real.

All because of the UPP.

I wouldn't want a Traveller universe with "well-thought-out-and-revised" UPPs.

For me, Traveller would lose some of its charm, some of it's wonder.

Some of the "fiction" in science fiction.

-S4

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Malenfant:

I'm sorry, I have to laugh when I hear that sort of response.

C'mon, Mal. Why insult the guy? Or, were your words directed towards my response?

Where's the imagination involved in coming up with a ludicrous explanation for a tiny rockball that's less massive than Earth's moon yet has a habitable N2/O2 atmosphere, orbits a red giant, and has tens of billions of people on it frolicking around in the really low gravity?

Actually, I've never seen a Traveller UPP I didn't like.

I think it's interesting. It's a puzzle. Take these codes and try to make them make sense in a science fiction setting.

Makes for some damn interesting strange new worlds to travel to.

Obvioulsy, you disagree. But, me, I've enjoyed strange UPPs for years.

Heck, I like to run 'em through Heaven & Earth and see what it spits out.

My characters are on Aramanx right now. The hex my characters are in is 101 degrees F at Noon and 1 degree F at midnight.

I thought that was so incredibly interesting. Think of what the cultural clothing is like, with parts that can be discarded and re-attached. It's probably a damn windy area too. Storms are a bitch.

It's an alien world.

I probably wouldn't have gotten that creative on my own. But because the H&E design process spit that out (using World Builder's planet detail rules), I've got this very interesting place to describe to my players.

Now, they've got to keep up with their clothing requirements on the world while they're there--a detail that makes the universe that much more real.

All because of the UPP.

I wouldn't want a Traveller universe with "well-thought-out-and-revised" UPPs.

For me, Traveller would lose some of its charm, some of it's wonder.

Some of the "fiction" in science fiction.

-S4

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Malenfant:
So, uh, how exactly do you get a world with no population at all?

That would be Pop Code 0. A single digit. 0-9.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Malenfant:
So, uh, how exactly do you get a world with no population at all?

That would be Pop Code 0. A single digit. 0-9.

 

[Jeff M. Hopper]

Originally posted by Malenfant:

It's a systematic problem with Classic Traveller as a whole, in that you're expected to keep exceptional results produced by a random generation system and repeatedly concoct unlikely explanations for them, when those results shouldn't even be outputted in the first place. You'd have the same problem with any system that is so heavily based on randomness.

It's all down to insufficient error-checking in the systems used in the game, really.

So, once again I have to ask, if you don't like Traveller so much then why do you hang out on a forum dedicated to Traveller?

 

[Jeff M. Hopper]

Originally posted by Malenfant:

It's a systematic problem with Classic Traveller as a whole, in that you're expected to keep exceptional results produced by a random generation system and repeatedly concoct unlikely explanations for them, when those results shouldn't even be outputted in the first place. You'd have the same problem with any system that is so heavily based on randomness.

It's all down to insufficient error-checking in the systems used in the game, really.

So, once again I have to ask, if you don't like Traveller so much then why do you hang out on a forum dedicated to Traveller?

 

[Supplement Four]

BTW, GMs...

Fifty Starbases, by Judges Guild, has a quick system for detailing starports. You can roll up a few quickie details about a starport, or you can use their starport design system to flesh out many aspects of a starport (take a little more work than the quickie rolls).

Yeah, I know. It's Judges Guild. But, I was quite impressed with this one. It doesn't bowl me over the way Grand Census or Grand Survey do, but 50 Starbases is a nice little supplement to have.

-S4

 

[Supplement Four]

BTW, GMs...

Fifty Starbases, by Judges Guild, has a quick system for detailing starports. You can roll up a few quickie details about a starport, or you can use their starport design system to flesh out many aspects of a starport (take a little more work than the quickie rolls).

Yeah, I know. It's Judges Guild. But, I was quite impressed with this one. It doesn't bowl me over the way Grand Census or Grand Survey do, but 50 Starbases is a nice little supplement to have.

-S4

 

[Malenfant]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
C'mon, Mal. Why insult the guy? Or, were your words directed towards my response?

No, they were directed at what he said. And I wasn't insulting him, just what he was saying.

I think it's interesting. It's a puzzle. Take these codes and try to make them make sense in a science fiction setting.

Makes for some damn interesting strange new worlds to travel to.

Oh, you can definitely make a lot of very interesting 'strange new worlds' without having to warp reality and do mental gymnastics to come up with why an impossible UWP works.

My characters are on Aramanx right now. The hex my characters are in is 101 degrees F at Noon and 1 degree F at midnight.

I thought that was so incredibly interesting. Think of what the cultural clothing is like, with parts that can be discarded and re-attached. It's probably a damn windy area too. Storms are a bitch.

It's an alien world.

And that's good! But then that has a sane UWP to start with. (B657974-6 orbiting a G0 V, right? According to this link and a few others I found)

I probably wouldn't have gotten that creative on my own. But because the H&E design process spit that out (using World Builder's planet detail rules), I've got this very interesting place to describe to my players.

Sure, but again that particular world has a usable UWP to start with. That's a case where the generation system actually works to produce a result that makes sense.

I wouldn't want a Traveller universe with "well-thought-out-and-revised" UPPs.

For me, Traveller would lose some of its charm, some of it's wonder.

Er, the world you referred to has a sensible UPP, and you don't seem to be complaining about it. You've got a buttload of charm and wonder right there, yet you'd complain if all the worlds made as much sense?! You've just proved my point for me!

Some of the "fiction" in science fiction.

People say that a lot, but it's nonsense. For starters, the "science fiction" label was never intended to be separated out into "science" and "fiction". It's all just fiction set in a futuristic setting or is based on scientific principles - how much science is in there is entirely down to the individual setting.

But let's just assume for now that your comment has some validity - if you're going to say that then I can counterpoint with "what about the science in science-fiction"? People are often very quick to say "it's about the 'fiction' in science-fiction", and very slow to accept that it's the science that makes it what it is and not just a fantasy setting. If it really is a sliding scale with science at one end and fiction at the other then why should the slider be pushed all the way up to the "fiction" end and the "science" part discarded whenever it's inconvenient?

 

[Malenfant]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
C'mon, Mal. Why insult the guy? Or, were your words directed towards my response?

No, they were directed at what he said. And I wasn't insulting him, just what he was saying.

I think it's interesting. It's a puzzle. Take these codes and try to make them make sense in a science fiction setting.

Makes for some damn interesting strange new worlds to travel to.

Oh, you can definitely make a lot of very interesting 'strange new worlds' without having to warp reality and do mental gymnastics to come up with why an impossible UWP works.

My characters are on Aramanx right now. The hex my characters are in is 101 degrees F at Noon and 1 degree F at midnight.

I thought that was so incredibly interesting. Think of what the cultural clothing is like, with parts that can be discarded and re-attached. It's probably a damn windy area too. Storms are a bitch.

It's an alien world.

And that's good! But then that has a sane UWP to start with. (B657974-6 orbiting a G0 V, right? According to this link and a few others I found)

I probably wouldn't have gotten that creative on my own. But because the H&E design process spit that out (using World Builder's planet detail rules), I've got this very interesting place to describe to my players.

Sure, but again that particular world has a usable UWP to start with. That's a case where the generation system actually works to produce a result that makes sense.

I wouldn't want a Traveller universe with "well-thought-out-and-revised" UPPs.

For me, Traveller would lose some of its charm, some of it's wonder.

Er, the world you referred to has a sensible UPP, and you don't seem to be complaining about it. You've got a buttload of charm and wonder right there, yet you'd complain if all the worlds made as much sense?! You've just proved my point for me!

Some of the "fiction" in science fiction.

People say that a lot, but it's nonsense. For starters, the "science fiction" label was never intended to be separated out into "science" and "fiction". It's all just fiction set in a futuristic setting or is based on scientific principles - how much science is in there is entirely down to the individual setting.

But let's just assume for now that your comment has some validity - if you're going to say that then I can counterpoint with "what about the science in science-fiction"? People are often very quick to say "it's about the 'fiction' in science-fiction", and very slow to accept that it's the science that makes it what it is and not just a fantasy setting. If it really is a sliding scale with science at one end and fiction at the other then why should the slider be pushed all the way up to the "fiction" end and the "science" part discarded whenever it's inconvenient?

 

[Malenfant]

Originally posted by Jeff M. Hopper:
So, once again I have to ask, if you don't like Traveller so much then why do you hang out on a forum dedicated to Traveller? [/QB]

This is a discussion board for Traveller, is it not? So I'm discussing it. I've had a long history with this game and have as much right to talk about it as anyone else does. So stop asking.

 

[Malenfant]

Originally posted by Jeff M. Hopper:
So, once again I have to ask, if you don't like Traveller so much then why do you hang out on a forum dedicated to Traveller? [/QB]

This is a discussion board for Traveller, is it not? So I'm discussing it. I've had a long history with this game and have as much right to talk about it as anyone else does. So stop asking.

 

[Jeff M. Hopper]

Originally posted by Malenfant:
This is a discussion board for Traveller, is it not? So I'm discussing it. I've had a long history with this game and have as much right to talk about it as anyone else does.

Yet all that I've seen you post is what you dislike about Traveller. Is there anything that you think Traveller does well? Any version that you like?

 

[Jeff M. Hopper]

Originally posted by Malenfant:
This is a discussion board for Traveller, is it not? So I'm discussing it. I've had a long history with this game and have as much right to talk about it as anyone else does.

Yet all that I've seen you post is what you dislike about Traveller. Is there anything that you think Traveller does well? Any version that you like?

 

[Malenfant]

Originally posted by Jeff M. Hopper:
Yet all that I've seen you post is what you dislike about Traveller. Is there anything that you think Traveller does well? Any version that you like? [/QB]

Is there any particular reason why you keep wanting to derail threads to complain about me? It's got nothing to do with the subject at hand here.

 

[Malenfant]

Originally posted by Jeff M. Hopper:
Yet all that I've seen you post is what you dislike about Traveller. Is there anything that you think Traveller does well? Any version that you like? [/QB]

Is there any particular reason why you keep wanting to derail threads to complain about me? It's got nothing to do with the subject at hand here.

 

[Jeff M. Hopper]

Originally posted by Malenfant:
Is there any particular reason why you keep wanting to derail threads to complain about me?

Not complaining about you, so there's no need for you to get defensive. I'm just asking some reasonable questions to satisfy my own curiosity.

Could you answer them, please?

 

[Jeff M. Hopper]

Originally posted by Malenfant:
Is there any particular reason why you keep wanting to derail threads to complain about me?

Not complaining about you, so there's no need for you to get defensive. I'm just asking some reasonable questions to satisfy my own curiosity.

Could you answer them, please?