Survival Food Packet

[Timerover51]

I recall an account by a WW-II army captain of his experience during the war. One of the notable parts relevant to this issue was that at one point he'd been in the field and on rations for so long that his stomach could no longer tolerate regular food. He ended up in an infirmary eating pureed something-or-other for several days while he recovered. I also recall that the preference was to find some way to deliver prepared meals to the troops, with the rations intended to provide an alternative when combat circumstances made that impossible. Do you have any information on the maximum recommended time the soldiers could or were supposed to be eating field rations?

The following quote from the Quartermaster history gives the basis on which the C ration was designed. One reason for the continual work at improving the ration was that in some areas, especially the Southwest Pacific Area on New Guinea, the troop were eating C rations for far longer than anticipated. My emphasis added in the quotes.

The C ration had not been designed for continuous consumption over long periods of time. It was not to be issued for more than 72 hours and, within this limit, its three meat components were satisfactory. In actual theater operations, however, the ration was frequently used for long periods. Instances were reported of soldiers being fed the C ration for as long as 90 days.

The much improved "C-4" ration for the Korean War, with a much greater variety in the menus, was rated as acceptable for between 10 and 21 days.

Early in July an officer investigating the exceptionally bad ration supply of the 34th Infantry Regiment bivouacked at Hollandia [New Guinea] concluded that "technically all units are getting ample food" but that "actually they are not, as the ration issued has been mainly “C' ration and after several days the troops can not eat it."

In one shipment of 600,000 C rations to Biak two-thirds of the meat components consisted of corned beef hash

The two above quotes are from the QMC in the War Against Japan.

Even getting a proper balance of the "B" ration, which was the standard ration for large-scale messing in the field was not easy, as can be seen from the following quote in the QMC in the War Against Germany. This incident occurred in North Africa, but similar happening were not unusual in the Southwest Pacific Area in WW2.

The first daily train from Eastern Base Section to Bédja carried 250 tons of supplies. Within this tonnage McNamara had ordered balanced B rations for 50,000 men. When the freight train arrived, it had sixteen carloads of peanut butter, a car full of crackers, a case of grapefruit, and a sack of flour. McNamara used the incident to impress on Eastern Base Section the necessity to balance rations.

While I have not tracked down that report, if it still exists, in the Archives, I strongly suspect that the individuals in charge of loading that train got very thoroughly toasted.

 

[HG_B]

I recall an account by a WW-II army captain of his experience during the war. One of the notable parts relevant to this issue was that at one point he'd been in the field and on rations for so long that his stomach could no longer tolerate regular food. He ended up in an infirmary eating pureed something-or-other for several days while he recovered.

I read that Captain's book. He was in the field from ~D-Day until VE-Day and was mistakenly never given a break from combat duties for any R&R or even a field kitchen meal. He took quite a while to recover in England before his stomach could handle real food.

 

[Timerover51]

The following comes from the Quartermaster Professional Bulletin in 1988.

When "Final" user/technical testing took place in 1974-75, the MRE was so significantly preferred to the MCI as to warrant the new ration's use as a sole diet for 10 consecutive days.

Not sure about 10 days straight of MREs. Having tried them and the older "Meal, Combat, Individual", I prefer the MCI. Of course, I should also add that I actually like Spam, the pork luncheon meat variety. When you see "pork luncheon meat" in World War 2 ration menus, read "Spam".

 

[GameDaddy]

I have had K-Rations, C-Rations and MRE's. I would have to say I preferred K-rations. By the 1970's they had quite a variety of meals available, it included, several different types of meals for Breakfast, Lunch and Dinner, a decent chocolate bar, good crackers and peanut butter, and of course, chewing gum. They even included cigarettes. The oldest K-Rations I tried in 1972 had date labels on them from the Korean War 1951-53. That food was edible and they tasted ok. About that time I tried C-Rations as well on several occasions, but I didn't like the crackers and condiments in them very much.

In the mid-80's when I was in the Army myself, we did all MRE's for a couple weeks while we were deployed into forward battle zone positions a few hundred yards south of the DMZ in Korea. There was such little variety in the MRE's back then, that we were burned out on them before the end of the first week, and we were eating Korean food we bought from the nearest local village...

Pretty sure K-rations became MCI's.

 

[Timerover51]

I have had K-Rations, C-Rations and MRE's. I would have to say I preferred K-rations. By the 1970's they had quite a variety of meals available, it included, several different types of meals for Breakfast, Lunch and Dinner, a decent chocolate bar, good crackers and peanut butter, and of course, chewing gum. They even included cigarettes. The oldest K-Rations I tried in 1972 had date labels on them from the Korean War 1951-53. That food was edible and they tasted ok. About that time I tried C-Rations as well on several occasions, but I didn't like the crackers and condiments in them very much.

In the mid-80's when I was in the Army myself, we did all MRE's for a couple weeks while we were deployed into forward battle zone positions a few hundred yards south of the DMZ in Korea. There was such little variety in the MRE's back then, that we were burned out on them before the end of the first week, and we were eating Korean food we bought from the nearest local village...

Pretty sure K-rations became MCI's.

What you called K-rations (which was the World War 2 term for individual meals) were early MCI, probably made up from leftover Korean War rations, probably based on what you say about them, the later C-4 to C-8 versions, as they kept changing the components throughout the war. The C-ration crackers were a continual headache with troop acceptance, which really was never solved. You either eat them or hated them.

I know when I was working for the Marines during the 1991 Gulf War, the guys in Saudi Arabia were screaming for stuff to spice them up. McIlhenny, the company that makes Tabasco sauce, was shipping container loads of large and small bottles to the Gulf for use with the rations.

 

[Ulsyus]

I knew a guy who was at an out-of-the-way posting in northern Iraq for 3 months of his tour as part of a training team. Claims they survived on Aus army ration packs for most of the time (they have varieties A-I) and didn't go nuts on them, but did lost a lot of weight (one of those rat packs for a day is about the size of a single MRE).

Those rat packs are pretty good: lots of variety, plenty of balance in them. I've never been a fan of the dehydrated rice, but hey, it beat going hungry.

 

[Xerxeskingofking]

What you called K-rations (which was the World War 2 term for individual meals) were early MCI, probably made up from leftover Korean War rations, probably based on what you say about them, the later C-4 to C-8 versions, as they kept changing the components throughout the war. The C-ration crackers were a continual headache with troop acceptance, which really was never solved. You either eat them or hated them.

I know when I was working for the Marines during the 1991 Gulf War, the guys in Saudi Arabia were screaming for stuff to spice them up. McIlhenny, the company that makes Tabasco sauce, was shipping container loads of large and small bottles to the Gulf for use with the rations.

a very small bottle of tabasco sauce is in fact part of current British rations. its inclusion was met with shouts of joy upon discovery by troops faced with yet another corned beef hash.

I'm told that in the gulf in '91, the brits could pretty much get anything off the yanks In exchange for a few boxes of 24 hr "compo" rations.

I knew a guy who was at an out-of-the-way posting in northern Iraq for 3 months of his tour as part of a training team. Claims they survived on Aus army ration packs for most of the time (they have varieties A-I) and didn't go nuts on them, but did lost a lot of weight (one of those rat packs for a day is about the size of a single MRE).

a story my corporal told me about a American soldier attached to a UK unit on exercise.

This American was given his ration box, same as everyone else. Generally, we get given them in the late afternoon/evening, just before or as we break for evening meal (it works out better that way, as on day 1, you'd e-at breakfast n base, and on the last day you'd be back on base for evening meal).

Anyway, everyone sat down, got out their cooking systems and ate their food, no problem. the problem came next morning. all the brits got up, got out their cooking system again and started cooking their hot breakfast. The American, however, did not. He could not, as he'd eaten the entire contents of the ration box the night before, as you would with MREs. No one had told him that was it for the whole day, he just assumed that, like with the Americans, he'd get a new box for breakfast next morning.

may I add that the total contents of a 24 hr ration pack are approximately 4,000 Cal? the brits were mildly impressed.

Not sure if it's actually true, but it highlights the little differences between armies that can trip people up when working with other forces.

 

[Kashirigi]

While not military, this page may serve as some inspiration as well.

Soylent Recipes. I'm not convinced I would want to eat any of these, though.

 

[Timerover51]

While not military, this page may serve as some inspiration as well.

Soylent Recipes. I'm not convinced I would want to eat any of these, though.

Hmm, actually, as long as water is available, those Soylent packets would be viable as survival rations. It does sound from going through the ingredient list that acceptability may depend on how desperate you are or feel.

The big headache in developing any ration is coming up with something that the intended consumer will, in fact, eat. Going through the reports on ration development, there is a continued tension between making something nutritionally balanced and something that the user will eat and continue to eat. Generally, one rules out the other.

I have not heard that about the Brit "compo" ration, but I can believe it. When the US was airdropping MREs in Bosnia and Kosovo in the 1990s, the civilians who were supposed to be eating them were feeding them to their livestock. Evidently, the pigs loved them.

 

[Xerxeskingofking]

Hmm, actually, as long as water is available, those Soylent packets would be viable as survival rations. It does sound from going through the ingredient list that acceptability may depend on how desperate you are or feel.

The big headache in developing any ration is coming up with something that the intended consumer will, in fact, eat. Going through the reports on ration development, there is a continued tension between making something nutritionally balanced and something that the user will eat and continue to eat. Generally, one rules out the other.

I have not heard that about the Brit "compo" ration, but I can believe it. When the US was airdropping MREs in Bosnia and Kosovo in the 1990s, the civilians who were supposed to be eating them were feeding them to their livestock. Evidently, the pigs loved them.

I'm told that the yanks had a long list of different names that MRE actauly stood for. Wiki has a few

"Meals Rejected by Everyone", "Meals, Rarely Edible", "Meals Rejected by the Enemy", "Morsels, Regurgitated, Eviscerated", "Mentally Retarded Edibles", "Meal Ready to Expel", "Meal, Ready to Excrete", "Meals Rejected by the Emaciated", "Materials Resembling Edibles", "Morale Reducing Elements", and even "Meals Rejected by Ethiopians"

my favourite was "Meal, Ready to Eat: Four words, three lies!"


pretty much sums up the troops opinion of them, doesn't it?

 

[Timerover51]

I'm told that the yanks had a long list of different names that MRE actauly stood for. Wiki has a few


my favourite was "Meal, Ready to Eat: Four words, three lies!"


pretty much sums up the troops opinion of them, doesn't it?

And those are the printable ones. Actually, from going through the reports on development of rations, the ones that appear to be the most liked were the MCI, with one of the most liked items being the canned fruit. As I said earlier, I much prefer the MCI to the MRE, even with additional spices and sauces.

The comments in the Wiki on acceptability could be lifted directly from some of the pre-World War 2 and during World War 2 and after reports on rations. Getting the troops to eat the entire ration is simply something that has been going on since World War 2 with respect to combat rations. It just does not happen, and the troops end up loosing weight.

 

[Timerover51]

As this has developed into a thread on rations, over and above the survival variety, and SPAM™ was part of the ration for a while in World War 2 and Korea, and a bit beyond, I figure that I would mention something. As indicated previously, I am a bit weird as I actually like SPAM™, and grew up eating it. SPAM™ is very popular in Hawaii, to the extent of a per capita consumption of 6 cans per year per person. We were in Hawaii over the summer, and I did have one breakfast of SPAM™ and eggs, which I did enjoy. While there, I found a SPAM™ cookbook, written by an Englishwoman of current SPAM™ recipes used in England, and promptly bought it. My friend Gene and my son were with me when I did so. Later on, my daughter and wife went shopping at Walmart on one of the other islands with Gene and his wife. Gene spotted another cookbook on SPAM™, Hawaiian-style, and gave it to my daughter to get for my birthday. Well, my birthday was on Friday, and I got my presents on Saturday, as my daughter got home from college a bit late on Friday. The SPAM™ cookbook looks quite interesting, and I am actually going to do some cooking out of it, both of them actually. As my wife in NOT a fan of SPAM™, I will have to do this for my lunch when she is at work. This should be interesting.

I also got a terrific book on old maritime maps from my wife, which should give me all sorts of ideas for worlds for Traveller. So, quite a happy birthday here.

 

[aramis]

As this has developed into a thread on rations, over and above the survival variety, and Spam was part of the ration for a while in World War 2 and Korea, and a bit beyond, I figure that I would mention something. As indicated previously, I am a bit weird as I actually like Spam, and grew up eating it. Spam is very popular in Hawaii, to the extent of a per capita consumption of 6 cans per year per person.

Alaska is #2 in spam consumption...
http://www.metroactive.com/papers/sonoma/01.29.98/dining1-9804.html

Really, the reasons for it here are much the same as hawaii... lots of spam sent by the military in WW II, and lots of spam traded for other stuff into the local economy, coupled with issues with refrigeration.

As a kid, there were several things that were frightful expensive, so tended to be treats:
1. fresh milk
2. non-game meat that hadn't been frozen to get it here.
3. any veggies besides peas, carrots, and potatoes.
4. any fruit besides raspberry, strawberry and blueberry

Spam was a staple. Still is, for my family. (I've bought about 24 cans this year... there's 5 on the shelf at the moment. And my wife avoids the spam unless I dice it fine.) Same for Canned Corned Beef. (3 cans on the shelf, of 15 purchased this year. So far.) Also extremely popular in both Hawaii and Alaska.

If White-Alaska* can be said to have a cuisine of its own, it's Spam and Corned Beef with potatoes, carrots, and peas, and loads of berries. Plus sourdough breads, made from san-fran starter cultures.

Much of this has to do with wartime rationing. Much of it has to do with an urban culture that was forced to eat the stuff on active duty.

* Referring to the dominant urban population of the major 8 cities... who are mostly Caucasian, mostly associated with the military somehow (current or former active duty, or one-time dependent of same).

 

[Timerover51]

Alaska is #2 in spam consumption...
http://www.metroactive.com/papers/sonoma/01.29.98/dining1-9804.html

Really, the reasons for it here are much the same as hawaii... lots of spam sent by the military in WW II, and lots of spam traded for other stuff into the local economy, coupled with issues with refrigeration.

As a kid, there were several things that were frightful expensive, so tended to be treats:
1. fresh milk
2. non-game meat that hadn't been frozen to get it here.
3. any veggies besides peas, carrots, and potatoes.
4. any fruit besides raspberry, strawberry and blueberry

Spam was a staple. Still is, for my family. (I've bought about 24 cans this year... there's 5 on the shelf at the moment. And my wife avoids the spam unless I dice it fine.) Same for Canned Corned Beef. (3 cans on the shelf, of 15 purchased this year. So far.) Also extremely popular in both Hawaii and Alaska.

If White-Alaska* can be said to have a cuisine of its own, it's Spam and Corned Beef with potatoes, carrots, and peas, and loads of berries. Plus sourdough breads, made from san-fran starter cultures.

Much of this has to do with wartime rationing. Much of it has to do with an urban culture that was forced to eat the stuff on active duty.

* Referring to the dominant urban population of the major 8 cities... who are mostly Caucasian, mostly associated with the military somehow (current or former active duty, or one-time dependent of same).

I should have thought of Alaska after having been stationed there. Even at the commissary, meat was expensive, and produce was equally bad. It was the only place that I have ever found where King Crab was cheaper than steak.

Is Matanuska Maid Dairy still in business? We used a 50-50 mixture of Matanuska Maid milk and powdered milk to stretch it.

I like both canned corned beef and SPAM™, but my wife is not a fan of either, so was ate a LOT of tuna fish in various forms.

 

[Jetrock]

There are other American groups who have strong associations with SPAM--Japanese Americans interned during the war were, like others in remote locations, provided with large quantities of SPAM, hot dogs and bologna and had to do creative things with it. As a result, SPAM sushi exists (known as Spam Musubi) and is strongly associated with both Hawaiian food and Japanese-Americans in California. The Nisei who grew up in the camps transformed these American products into recipes like "weenie royale" which is basically just hot dogs, stir-fried with soy sauce, scrambled eggs and served over rice. In a way it's kind of a Japanese "soul food," food that combines older traditions with periods of hardship and improvisation. http://www.npr.org/2007/12/20/17335538/weenie-royale-food-and-the-japanese-internment

Similar sorts of food traditions, from disgusting acronyms for military-issue meals to distinct recipes associated with past conflicts, might add some flavor (!) to meals in one's own Traveller universe.

Speaking of survival rations, the idea of "food pills" is a common trope in science fiction--pop a vitamin pill as a substitute for a whole meal. While lacking the psychological value of a prepared meal or even a high-calorie chocolate bar, there are situations where a high-tech food pill is the only option--such as a spacer working a long shift in vacuum or toxic atmosphere. The same applies to battledress or combat armor troopers--opening the faceplate to gulp down a retort pouch of "Groat Patty with Treer Sauce" means taking the eyes off your HUD-mounted synthetic vision, which lets those Zho warbots creep into the perimeter unobserved.

A helmet-based food pill dispenser and water/beverage nipple would allow a quick "snack" during a long suited-up shift or watch, allowing longer shift times with reduced fatigue due to hunger. Depending on their composition, pills could be swallowed whole or "chewable" with flavorings for some sense of having eaten. These could be assumed to be part of the standard suit or a low-cost add-on for suits intended for longer use. While there are other biological consequences to remaining in space suits for long periods of time, well, nobody said life in space was going to be pretty!

 

[Timerover51]

There are other American groups who have strong associations with SPAM--Japanese Americans interned during the war were, like others in remote locations, provided with large quantities of SPAM, hot dogs and bologna and had to do creative things with it. As a result, SPAM sushi exists (known as Spam Musubi) and is strongly associated with both Hawaiian food and Japanese-Americans in California. The Nisei who grew up in the camps transformed these American products into recipes like "weenie royale" which is basically just hot dogs, stir-fried with soy sauce, scrambled eggs and served over rice. In a way it's kind of a Japanese "soul food," food that combines older traditions with periods of hardship and improvisation. http://www.npr.org/2007/12/20/17335538/weenie-royale-food-and-the-japanese-internment

Similar sorts of food traditions, from disgusting acronyms for military-issue meals to distinct recipes associated with past conflicts, might add some flavor (!) to meals in one's own Traveller universe.

Speaking of survival rations, the idea of "food pills" is a common trope in science fiction--pop a vitamin pill as a substitute for a whole meal. While lacking the psychological value of a prepared meal or even a high-calorie chocolate bar, there are situations where a high-tech food pill is the only option--such as a spacer working a long shift in vacuum or toxic atmosphere. The same applies to battledress or combat armor troopers--opening the faceplate to gulp down a retort pouch of "Groat Patty with Treer Sauce" means taking the eyes off your HUD-mounted synthetic vision, which lets those Zho warbots creep into the perimeter unobserved.

A helmet-based food pill dispenser and water/beverage nipple would allow a quick "snack" during a long suited-up shift or watch, allowing longer shift times with reduced fatigue due to hunger. Depending on their composition, pills could be swallowed whole or "chewable" with flavorings for some sense of having eaten. These could be assumed to be part of the standard suit or a low-cost add-on for suits intended for longer use. While there are other biological consequences to remaining in space suits for long periods of time, well, nobody said life in space was going to be pretty!

Three grams of pure sugar, or one teaspoon, has 11 calories. How big is this pill you are taking?

 

[Jetrock]

The required mass of foods is itself a hard pill to swallow. A couple of realistic but less entertaining options might be these "survival food tabs":

http://www.nitro-pak.com/survival-food-tabs

Or, alternatively, a tube containing a paste supplement along the lines of Plumpy'Nut, which sounds gross but is a lifesaving product:

http://www.thisbarsaveslives.com/pages/our-cause

The idea isn't a long-term substitute for meals, but rather an alternative to not eating that can be consumed inside a vacc suit. But the "food pill" option, while perhaps not realistic, has a science-fiction feel that suits the "reality" of a game like Traveller that occasionally chafes along the edges between hard SF and space opera. It's a suitably unusual technology for a commonplace need without venturing into lightsaber territory.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/sci...dont-we-have-food-replacement-pills-15248871/

 

[kilemall]

Hmmm, ran across this one, and that gets into a side issue with UPP, namely- how much do our characters weigh and how many kgs of food and water does it take to keep them at full stats? At what point of being deprived of food does one start taking 'hits'?

Not just a survival issue, but a Mercenary unit operations issue as well.

Been trying to figure out a formula to derive our characters' size and body type, do a multiplier of exertion per day plus water loss on temperature, to arrive at logistical values, primarily for shipping Life Support and feeding a unit in the field, secondarily for shipwreck scenarios (in space as well as on a celestial body, or a misjump).

Strength can obviously be used as a general size category to a point, but how do you get skinny beanpoles vs. stocky types, and some stocky types are short and strong and others are given to fat?

Dexterity doesn't really seem to track on body size at all but could indicate efficient body movement, while Endurance is particularly problematic, as that could indicate efficient energy conversion/use and thus be a divisor to weight, or muscle condition thus adding greater weight then fat.

 

[Orr]

Been trying to figure out a formula to derive our characters' size and body type, do a multiplier of exertion per day plus water loss on temperature, to arrive at logistical values...

Timerover should be able to answer that for you. There are known caloric requirements for varying activity levels; i.e. sedentary, office work, farm labor, combat, etc., and rationing programs keep those requirements firmly in mind.

I've seen such data in the past and, if there's one member here who has that data or knows where to find it, that member is Timerover. Hopefully he'll see your question now that I've repeated it and pop in to share what he knows.

 

[samuelvss]

Three grams of pure sugar, or one teaspoon, has 11 calories. How big is this pill you are taking?

Indeed!

I think it is realistic to think that high technology and exposure to the biodiversity of thousands of worlds, might have increased efficiencies of sources of the basics of human nutrition, but not by orders of magnitude. The bar providing survival sustenance might be a bit more efficient, but, as you imply, a pill is never going to be a meal.

On the issue of field rations, variety is always critical for morale. They have done creditably with constant improvements to MRE's through the years, and they work. Cans in pockets are a problem; pouches work better. You can dispense with the spoon to eat on the move.

In suits, there will be a way to, in extremis, refuel on the fly. I wouldn't call it eating, and it will be a combat expedient, not normal field sustenance. When most of what you are doing is waiting around, tiddling with food is one of the few amusements. When all you are doing is moving, fighting, and a few hours of sleep, the last hting on your mind will be what your goo tastes like.

Combat has myriad paces, from constant to extremely sporadic. The level of activity, patrolling, etc., can also vary profoundly. The demands on rations as entertainment, a medium for socializing, and a general morale booster will vary as widely. Lumping "survival" with "field rations" is, of course, a huge mistake. In a real survival situation, we eat bugs raw. In the field, where there is enough food, and not enough challenging activity, the demands on rations are high. It is still policy to get hot meals (made by someone else) to the troops when practical. It isn't logistically efficient, but it is a moral boost. I would say technology could go a long way to making this more practical logistically.