Proneutron
SOC-13
I remember when I first moved to Europe and I walked into a McDonald's and when I ordered they asked if I wanted red or white wine with my food. It was great. There is no valid reason to not have that in the USA.
The MealMaker
- Thread starter Proneutron
- Start date
I remember when I first moved to Europe and I walked into a McDonald's and when I ordered they asked if I wanted red or white wine with my food. It was great. There is no valid reason to not have that in the USA.
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
I know on the ships I design, I always find room for a galley--other than something like a 100t scout. This is particularly true on merchant ships with passenger space. I'd think for what is officially the high passage price, passengers would expect good food as part of that.
Serving airline food or something like a high quality MRE won't cut it for high passage. You should be delivering a "sit down" meal of good restaurant quality. Military ships might--probably do--get away with pre-packaged meals and such, at least for the crew if not the officers. Here, I get the 'feel' that Traveller is a setting where privilege of rank and station in society is taken seriously and there are expected things that go along with that. One of those is the quality and style of eating meals. High passage means table cloths (or the equivalent), proper and nice looking place settings. even a centerpiece on each table. Service is done properly and manners are expected, even required socially.
Something like a microwave and ready to heat and eat meals is what lowly enlisted in the military or scouts eat, not paying passengers. "Snob" appeal as has been noted, would play a definite role here. "What is this crap? I paid for high passage! The industry standard is... I know! I travel frequently!" some businessman or monied tourist tells the ship's officers...
Serving airline food or something like a high quality MRE won't cut it for high passage. You should be delivering a "sit down" meal of good restaurant quality. Military ships might--probably do--get away with pre-packaged meals and such, at least for the crew if not the officers. Here, I get the 'feel' that Traveller is a setting where privilege of rank and station in society is taken seriously and there are expected things that go along with that. One of those is the quality and style of eating meals. High passage means table cloths (or the equivalent), proper and nice looking place settings. even a centerpiece on each table. Service is done properly and manners are expected, even required socially.
Something like a microwave and ready to heat and eat meals is what lowly enlisted in the military or scouts eat, not paying passengers. "Snob" appeal as has been noted, would play a definite role here. "What is this crap? I paid for high passage! The industry standard is... I know! I travel frequently!" some businessman or monied tourist tells the ship's officers...
Proneutron
SOC-13
This is NOTHING like airline or MRE food. It is as high quality as the recipe that directs its manufacture. If you want Wagyu fillet you just order it. Mid or High passage people can get it. No difference in cost to the ship. Which combined with basically no significant cost of foodstuffs for the ships will cause universal usage.
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Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
I think you would pay more for the value added aspect of the meal, like a three star galley, or chef.
Proneutron
SOC-13
I think you would pay more for the value added aspect of the meal, like a three star galley, or chef.
Pay and cost are two different things. It COSTS no more to make gourmet food than it does slop with the equipment. It ALL boils down to O, H C, N and some trace elements.
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
But you have to keep a supply of the material / ingredients aboard to utilize it and these are likely to be unavailable on worlds below a certain tech level if not grotesquely expensive if they are. Better to have a steward who can prepare reasonable meals from a variety of foods available on most tech level planets, particularly on ships that are operating between backwater worlds.
Even on some higher tech world... "Sorry, we only carry the Ling ingredients. Those won't work with your knockoff Babu Fooderator..." Now what?
Proneutron
SOC-13
Incorrect. Read the original post for needed materials. They are available at TL 0 and above almost for free, for all practical purposes. Or even planets with no people sometimes.
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I think you could have made your point more succinctly if you just said: IMTU there are Star Trek style food replicators. No matter what kind of techno-extrapolation you engage in, that is in effect what you are postulating: You can replicate any food, fully prepared, from basic elements, and the energy costs and/or computing hurdles are irrelevant. Exactly like Star Trek.
In the OTU, that is obviously not the case since shipping of food items, specialties etc. are commonly mentioned to be factors.
Vile
SOC-12
I reckon there would still be a lively trade in "real" food, luxury items, food from home, etc. I pay 3 times the price of the local equivalents just so I can get some German Christmas food shipped in, for example.
I have food synthesisers IMTU - not replicators, because they use basic materials rather than ... actually, I don't know what the Star Trek canon says about replicators. Anyway, mine turn inedible slush into generally not-very-tasty food, and the colours aren't as bright and enticing as food cubes. All part of the atmospherics for the generally more grim feel of IMTU vs. the Federation.
That's the kind of food synthesizers I would use IMTU, myself. But Proneutron has proposed the existence of replicators which can produce any kind of specialty food from scratch, and at very moderate TLs to boot - which as I've argued collides with the idea of a universe in which specialty food items are a trade commodity.
It does not matter what kind of material the specific proposed replicator technology uses. As long as it is abundant, and any food can be produced from it at negligible cost in energy and with no skilled labor requirement, it is in effect a Star Trek replicator. Or better, arguably.
P.S.: I also pay hefty fees to get some German Christmas foods shipped, out in my case.
Proneutron
SOC-13
No. because they are not "Star Trek style food replicators". The description is clear that they are not that.
Proneutron
SOC-13
Yes, just as there is demand for gourmet food at high end restaurants today. "Natural food", as someone stated, will be the new snobbery. Probably some special items would be stocked for each High Passage meal to differentiate from Mid-passage meals that come 100% from the MealMaker.
Proneutron
SOC-13
Nope. The mealmaker is realistic by TL 11 and the ST replicators are not realistic at any TL
“Realistic” is a dangerous term to apply to any future technology.
Constructing Protein chains of food quality from raw elements seems neither more nor less “realistic” than Drexlerian nanotechnology building food from literally “nothing” (ala Star Trek).
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
I suspect Star Trek food replicators are based on Transporter technology, rather than three dee printers.
Proneutron
SOC-13
Not to ST replicators. E=MC2 is enough to do so. Taking basic building blocks and putting them together doesn't violate the laws of physics. ST replicators do.
Proneutron
SOC-13
Yep. Exactly. Transporter tech won't work as written while the "MealMaker" is VERY possible by TL 10-11.
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coliver988
SOC-14 1K
According to the Next Gen tech manual:
(p81): replicator and food service conduits similar to the transporter beamn conduits, these waveguides connect the food service and general replicator headends to replicator terminals throughout the ship
(p90) Recent advances in transporter-based molecular synthesis have resulted in a number of significant spin-off technologies. Chief among them are transporter-based replicators. These devices permit replication of virtually any inanimate object with incredible fidelity and relatively low energy costs.
There are two main replication systems onboard the Enterprise. These are food synthesizers and the hardware replicators. The food replicators are optimized for a finer degree of resolution because of the necessity of accurately replicating the chemical composition of foodstuffs.
(p91) The usage of replicators dramatically reduces the requirements for carrying and storing both foodstuffs and spare parts.
(p153) Food service onboard the Enterprise is provided by a molecular replication system that can instantly recreate any of thousands of food selections at a moments notice. This system employs transporter-based matter replication which can produce, with almost total fidelity, almost 4,500 types of foods, which are stored in the computers memory. The heart of the food replication system is a pair of molecular matric matter replicators based on decks 12 and 34. These devices dematerialize a measured quantity of raw material in a matter similar to a standard transporter.
So I think where Proneutron is going basically, though not with so much Trek-speak. But there is matter for the original food, it just gets rearranged at the molecular level.
(p81): replicator and food service conduits similar to the transporter beamn conduits, these waveguides connect the food service and general replicator headends to replicator terminals throughout the ship
(p90) Recent advances in transporter-based molecular synthesis have resulted in a number of significant spin-off technologies. Chief among them are transporter-based replicators. These devices permit replication of virtually any inanimate object with incredible fidelity and relatively low energy costs.
There are two main replication systems onboard the Enterprise. These are food synthesizers and the hardware replicators. The food replicators are optimized for a finer degree of resolution because of the necessity of accurately replicating the chemical composition of foodstuffs.
(p91) The usage of replicators dramatically reduces the requirements for carrying and storing both foodstuffs and spare parts.
(p153) Food service onboard the Enterprise is provided by a molecular replication system that can instantly recreate any of thousands of food selections at a moments notice. This system employs transporter-based matter replication which can produce, with almost total fidelity, almost 4,500 types of foods, which are stored in the computers memory. The heart of the food replication system is a pair of molecular matric matter replicators based on decks 12 and 34. These devices dematerialize a measured quantity of raw material in a matter similar to a standard transporter.
So I think where Proneutron is going basically, though not with so much Trek-speak. But there is matter for the original food, it just gets rearranged at the molecular level.
Proneutron
SOC-13
Wrong. It is not at all like matter creation from energy. Which is 100% what Trek replicator tech is. My device is 100% NOT energy to matter conversion.
Replicator tech as shown in ST is not possible. Building molecules out of constituent atoms is completely possible (as it has been done) and quite probable.
