T20 Combat

[tjoneslo]

Originally posted by apoc527:
I fail to see how treating firearms proficiency as a Feat is practically different from using a Language or "Perform" type skill mechanic.

The difference is you no longer have to use the (relatevely rare) feat slots to gain weapon proficiencies. Using BAB and Weapon skills, the unweaponed merchant can take the skill points from one level and suddenly use all weapons like a trained expert. Which strikes me as both munchkiny and wrong.
I found removing the BAB and replacing it with weapon skills and keeping the weapon enhancement feats (which you can buy for only proficient weapons only) was not a big change for my D20 group.

 

[apoc527]

So you ditched BAB entirely, huh? Interesting. If anyone remembers Alternity (pre-WOTC TSR), it was a "universal sci-fi RPG" that is sort of d20ish. IT had "classes" and levels, but it was far more skill based, since the various weapon skills needed to be boosted independantly.

I find I like the d20 mechanic of Weapon Proficiency as Feats. It saves you from picking up a weapon and pouring over your list of skills to see what your specific skill level is with it. It's must easier to just say, "ok, this is a <insert weapon> type. I've got that feat, so I don't take a -4." End of story (unless you have a Weapon Focus feat, but that's going to be obvious to you at all times).

I do understand that it can be irritating to have so few feat slots, but consider this- most characters with any military background SHOULD have all the feats for Weapon Proficiency for "free." I just don't think it's worth messing with d20 that much to make it work differently. YMMV, I guess.

 

[justacaveman]

The main reason for weapon proficiencies as feats is to allow characters that "aren't ex-military" to pick up "military" weapon proficiencies. Military background characters are going to already have the feats for free, and won't need use their feat slots for them.
If you don't have a military background, it's gonna cost you for those feats.

It's a matter of balance. If you want a combat type character you need to give them the appropriate background. There is no reason to be able pull skills out of the air fo your character. Having them as feats allow3s you to make a Merchant with better combat ability, without making the process too easy.

If everybody was able to pick up weapon skills with equal ease, why have a fighter type at all. The dedicated professional should have some sort of edge after all.

 

[Reginald]

Well, as I always say on other boards:

Your Campaign, Your Rules.

But just out of curiosity, tjoneslo, how did you incorporate "weapon & combat as skill" rule in your game? What are the skill names?

Did you have to make the two changes I have suggested in my earlier post (October 12)? After all, you cannot allow a 1st-level soldier character to have +4 skill bonus to attack roll, not counting other benefits from feats (e.g., Power Attack, Expertise, etc.).

Did you allow "auto success/failure" roll for these particular skills as an exception to the standard d20 Skill System?

 

[tjoneslo]

Originally posted by Reginald:
Well, as I always say on other boards:

Your Campaign, Your Rules.

But just out of curiosity, tjoneslo, how did you incorporate "weapon & combat as skill" rule in your game? What are the skill names?

I used the T20 weapon proficiency feats as skill names. The PHB has a lot more weapon profs, but they are largely ignored in T20 because they are all "Low Tech" weapons.

Did you have to make the two changes I have suggested in my earlier post (October 12)? After all, you cannot allow a 1st-level soldier character to have +4 skill bonus to attack roll, not counting other benefits from feats (e.g., Power Attack, Expertise, etc.).

The T20 book nicely gives the Weapon proficiency feats to each class, and I said weapon skills were class skills if the T20 book said the feat was a class feat and a cross class skill if not.

The feats which improve weapon skills were not in demand as much anymore, but the ruling was you could use a feat which had a prerequisite of +n BAB with a weapon skill of n+1. For example, the Improved Critical feat requires a BAB of +8 or better. IMTU, you can take the Improved Critical and use it with any weapon skill with a base level of 9 or more.

Finally, none of the characters are first level. One term through the prior history system and characters are 3rd level, at miminum. The characters in my campaign were 7th to 17th level.

Did you allow "auto success/failure" roll for these particular skills as an exception to the standard d20 Skill System?

The only time the Take10/20 or auto-success rolls work is when you are not rushed and underfire. Which definatly happens in combat. The rules also state you can't use the auto success rules in combat. The only time you might be able to use the auto success rules with a weapon is when you are sniping someone. Which I let my player know turnabout is fair play.

We actually didn't get a chance to playtest these rules too much. Combat was seen as very deadly. The one combat they did get into resulted in three badly wounded characters, and it would have been worse except for a critial hit taking out the one opponent.