OTU Only: T5SS Semi-Official Thread

[Garnfellow]

Yes, I would appreciate pointers in the right direction, and I know Marc would as well.

Remember to cite canon sources...

Rim of Fire has GURPS climate data for all mainworlds. I'm not sure how to map the GURPS climate categories to T5, which has only "Hot" and "Cold," both of which are described only as "Limit of Human Endurance." Does this exclude worlds beyond the limits of human endurance?

Assuming that the T5 categories only apply to "human habitable worlds," what would people think about this:

GURPS Climate Category	Temperature Range (F)	T5 Climate Code
Frozen	Below -20	N/A
Very Cold	-20 to 0	Co
Cold	0 to 20	?
Warm	80-100	?
Tropical	100-120	Ho
Hot	120 to 140	N/A
Very Hot	140 to 160	N/A
Infernal	Above 160	N/A

 

[DonM]

We have a conversion for the GURPS climate references for the T5SS data (as we have a full conversion from T5SS to GT... but the validity of those climate references has been raised. But you remind me of the open issue, and since I'm already generating the data, we might as well use it. I had forgotten about the issue of using the regenerated GT data to tweak the T5 data again. Noted!

 

[Garnfellow]

I was glad to see that the next-to-last T5SS update sprinkled some Aslan populations into Magyar worlds under Solomani military rule. I would also suggest considering adding Aslan populations to the following:

• Earltras / Kimson's Stand (Dark Nebula 2527)
• Brimate / Staai (Dark Nebula 2837)
• Miken / Staai (Dark Nebula 3033)

 

[Garnfellow]

Dolphins in Magyar

The following worlds in Magyar Sector would be good candidates for the addition of dolphin populations -- were part of the Rule of Man, have the right climate and hydrology, etc.:

• Kleug (2908 C88A430-B)
• Byrley (2715 C687538-9)
• Skyhaven (3118 B588501-C)
• Argon (2422 C55A755-B)
• Pacific (2933 B56878B-A)
• Aclavik (2934 C559734-9)

A dolphin population on Pacific is at least semi-canonical, from Travellers' Digest No. 14.

 

[Garnfellow]

Using Rim of Fire, the following worlds in the Solomani Rim should have the "Sa" note:

• Urud (0407)
• Leonore (0807)
• Llewellyn (0907)
• Coriolanus (1105)
• Quaver (1110)
• Easter (1802)
• Ikaakur (2205)
• Nasu (2405)
• Kesirisu (2906)
• Syzygy (3006)
• Shapam (3009)
• Irashnar (3203)
• Umieh (1219)
• Galishgu (1912)
• Duikin Tyui (2015)
• Isseydo (2414)
• Shani (2415)
• Imkhammash (2617)
• Nisinasha (2812)
• Oz (0121)
• Kidashi (0528)
• Colmar (0822)
• Markhashi (1529)
• Hades (2030)
• Jael (2821)
• Epirus (2928)
• Liberte (0331)
• Dolor (0437)
• Skyron (0533)
• Krokinole (1637)

 

[Garnfellow]

Magyar Capitals

The capitals of Magyar Sector are kind of a mess. They had been assigned using the T5 {Importance} stat, but the initial pass included several subsectors with duplicate capitals. A subsequent T5SS update tweaked the Importance numbers but did not seem to tweak the capitals.

The T5 rules for capitals are unclear and contradictory, but if we combine them we get something like “the world with the highest importance and a Class A starport in a subsector is the subsector capital.”

The Imperial capitals are mostly OK. Tolson and Seloo have the exact same Importance. The T5 rules say a tie is broken by going to the number of trade codes – both Tolson and Seloo have Hi Na Po. They have the same tech level. Tolson has the larger population but also an Amber Zone. (Travel advisories do not weigh in the Importance calc). Seloo has a naval base. Taken together, I think Seloo makes more sense as a capital.

Imperial Subsector Capitals

Subsector	Current Capital	Recommendation
Clown (C)	Tolson (Magyar 2106 A432ADH-E) { 3 }	Seloo (Magyar 2102 A4319BA-E) { 3 }
Anise (D)	Anise (Magyar 2904 A5419B7-E) { 4 }	Keep as Is
Kline (H)	Kline (Magyar 3012 A541987-E) { 4 }	Keep as Is
New Mars (L)	Wicker (Magyar 2728 A541843-C) { 2 }	Keep as Is

The Solomani Confederation holds most of the systems in Magyar. Canonical sources state that the Confederation does not have subsector capitals, though the Scout service will sometimes designate Solomani administrative centers as capitals. The Solomani Rim data has Confederation subsector capitals, but the Alpha Cruics data does not. My strong preference for Magyar would be to drop the Confederation capitals altogether, but if we must keep them below are my recommendations:

Confederation Subsector Capitals

Subsector	Current Capital	Recommendation
Clan (A)	Wu (Magyar 0203 B66A99A-E) { 4 }	Sharn (Magyar 0601 A7568BG-C) { 2 }
Eery (B)	Ko's World (Magyar 1105 B569775-B) { 3 }	Chorus (Magyar 1403 A944768-C) { 4 }
Clown (C)	Clown (Magyar 1807 B431975-E) { 4 }	Phipps (Magyar 1708 A621878-D) { 2 }
Nemo (E)	Pryon (Magyar 0115 A889747-D) { 3 }	Keep as is
New Town (F)	Landgrebe (Magyar 1415 B574625-A) { 3 } Minsk (Magyar 1512 C4319BB-C) { 2 }	Patterson (Magyar 1418 A577862-C) { 3 }
Voyager (G)	Dreesen (Magyar 1916 A201652-E) { 1 }	Wackowsk (Magyar 1918 A7B5775-D) { 2 }
Iouo (I)	Ock (Magyar 0227 A9A8855-E) { 3 } Gobi (Magyar 0528 D5408AD-6) { -2 }	Iouo (Magyar 0624 A79A96B-E) { 5 }
Valhalla (J)	Uebelhor (Magyar 1324 A566877-C) { 4 } Barland (Magyar 0930 A5678A7-C) { 3 }	Uebelhor (Magyar 1324 A566877-C) { 4 }
Swan (K)	Annu-u (Magyar 1826 A560679-C) { 2 }	Ramaniam (Magyar 1927 A431869-E) { 3 }
Last Chance (M)	Zandervort (Magyar 0337 A87489D-C) { 2 }	Drang (Magyar 0233 A54379C-C) { 3 }
Black Jack (N)	Lazlo's World (Magyar 1134 A997526-D) { 3 }	Blackjack (Magyar 1438 A5119BD-E) { 4 }
Olympus (O)	Viallalta (Magyar 1833 A556542-D) { 3 }	Keep as is
Cluster (P)	Pacific (Magyar 2933 B56878B-A) { 4 }	Blackhawk (Magyar 3040 A6A568A-D) { 2 }

The Magyar Confederation data is much more problematic than the Imperial. Requiring a Class A starport means many important worlds with Class B starports get passed over. The sole canonical description of a Magyar subsector capital is from Traveller’s Digest 14, and describes the capital being forcibly moved in 1069 from Iouo to Gobi as punishment. The problem is that Gobi is so crappy that such a move would hurt the Confederation more than Iouo.

My first choice, in any case, would be to remove all Confederation subsector capitals from Magyar.

 

[DonM]

Magyar may be that way on purpose. I'm noting the items you post, but won't be addressing them until I'm back home from DC.

There's a specific reason Magyar is the way it is (which could be 'Don messed up' or 'some canon reason'), but I don't have my notes with me.

 

[Garnfellow]

Magyar may be that way on purpose. I'm noting the items you post, but won't be addressing them until I'm back home from DC.

There's a specific reason Magyar is the way it is (which could be 'Don messed up' or 'some canon reason'), but I don't have my notes with me.

Great, I would very interested to hear if there are reasons.

One of the things about Magyar is that most of the limited canonical information about the sector was generated by DGP, which had a unique take on the power structure of the Solomani Confederation, introducing the concept of the Member State. These are essentially independent, multisystem confederations within the larger Confederation.

Personally, I really like this concept as it further distinguishes the Confederation from the Imperium, but subsequent GT and MGT sources have not used it -- and in fact, have pretty clearly and consciously chosen a different model.

DGP described three powerful member states in Magyar, and if these states had capitals they would like correspond with three of the current capitals in the T5SS data:

Member State	Likely Capital
Wuan Technology Association	Wu (Magyar 0203 B66A99A-E) { 4 }
New Slavic Sodality	Minsk (Magyar 1512 C4319BB-C) { 2 }
Reformed Dootchen Estates	Dreesen (Magyar 1916 A201652-E) { 1 }

I guess a VERY interesting question here is, does the Confederation have Member States, or has this been completely retconned away?

If it does, the newly-expanded 4 character Allegiance code could capture this: "SoWu, SoSl, SoDo, etc."

 

[Garnfellow]

Naval base in Anise Subsector

The MegaTraveller Rebellion Sourcebook shows the 20th Imperial Fleet assigned to Anise (D) subsector of Magyar (pg. 27). But there are no naval bases in Anise.

I realize the Atlas of the Imperium doesn't list any naval bases in Subsector D, but given the proximity of the Confederation border and the fact that Anise could serve as a platform for attacks into Daibei, Diaspora, and the Solomani Rim, it seems like a naval base would be a natural fit.

I would strongly recommend adding a naval base to the subsector capital, Anise (Magyar 2904).

 

[rancke]

The MegaTraveller Rebellion Sourcebook shows the 20th Imperial Fleet assigned to Anise (D) subsector of Magyar (pg. 27). But there are no naval bases in Anise.

I realize the Atlas of the Imperium doesn't list any naval bases in Subsector D, but given the proximity of the Confederation border and the fact that Anise could serve as a platform for attacks into Daibei, Diaspora, and the Solomani Rim, it seems like a naval base would be a natural fit.

I would strongly recommend adding a naval base to the subsector capital, Anise (Magyar 2904).

We had a discussion about that fairly recently. As it's not the only subsector capital without a naval base, my suggestion is to embrace the possibility that in some cases the Imperial Navy make use of the naval facilities of member worlds, obviating the need for a base of its own.


Hans

 

[whulorigan]

...
One of the things about Magyar is that most of the limited canonical information about the sector was generated by DGP, which had a unique take on the power structure of the Solomani Confederation, introducing the concept of the Member State. These are essentially independent, multisystem confederations within the larger Confederation.

Personally, I really like this concept as it further distinguishes the Confederation from the Imperium, but subsequent GT and MGT sources have not used it -- and in fact, have pretty clearly and consciously chosen a different model.

DGP described three powerful member states in Magyar, and if these states had capitals they would like correspond with three of the current capitals in the T5SS data:

Member State	Likely Capital
Wuan Technology Association	Wu (Magyar 0203 B66A99A-E) { 4 }
New Slavic Sodality	Minsk (Magyar 1512 C4319BB-C) { 2 }
Reformed Dootchen Estates	Dreesen (Magyar 1916 A201652-E) { 1 }

I guess a VERY interesting question here is, does the Confederation have Member States, or has this been completely retconned away?

If it does, the newly-expanded 4 character Allegiance code could capture this: "SoWu, SoSl, SoDo, etc."

I would also vote for keeping the member states concept. It creates an interesting and unique flavor to the Confederation.

 

[Garnfellow]

OK, last Magyar suggestion from me for a while. MGT's Alien - Solomani book introduces the Selenite variant human race. These are humans genetically modified by the Terrans for low or micro-gravity environments. Alpha Crucis has several notable Selenite worlds, but since they originated in the Terran system, there's no reason why they wouldn't have been seeded in Magyar, too. The following mainworlds in Magyar would be suitable for Selenite populations:

• Ghosh (Magyar 2526 E10068A–9)
• Needler (Magyar 2135 C10076B–B)
• Gerwalk (Magyar 2631 C100941–D)

 

[tjoneslo]

Based upon the world descriptions in Signal-GK library data entries the following worlds in Dagudashaag should be marked as "Sa".

• Adaim / Old Suns (Dagudashaag 1007)
• Aiish / Argi (Dagudashaag 1535)
• Ardchi / Shallows (Dagudashaag 0819)
• Argi / Argi (Dagudashaag 1431)
• Argiluu / Ushra (Dagudashaag 1317)
• Asimidiske / Zeda (Dagudashaag 0828)
• Baladine / Gadde (Dagudashaag 2922)
• Degushush/Old Suns (Dagudashaag 1302)
• Draskeran/Pact (Dagudashaag 2023)
• Ersharsa/Iiradu (Dagudashaag 3001)
• Gishu Amkhir/Laraa (Dagudashaag 2635)
• Gushnemasha/Mimu (Dagudashaag 0504)
• Iash/Pact (Dagudashaag 1730)
• Kemnagii/Arnakhish (Dagudashaag 1904)
• Khiradu/Iiradu (Dagudashaag 2706)
• Kiirishi/Argi (Dagudashaag 1335)
• Liikirba/Arnakhish (Dagudashaag 1705)
• Maudhii/Zeda (Dagudashaag 0423)
• McKenzie/Khandi (Dagudashaag 1717)
• Mikhid/Laraa (Dagudashaag 2836)
• Mindahm/Bolivar (Dagudashaag 0733)
• Misaruu/Arnakhish (Dagudashaag 2202)
• Reshumirak/Remnants (Dagudashaag 1025)
• Shakhii/Pact (Dagudashaag 1926)
• Sharaa/Argi (Dagudashaag 1539)
• Shulasgu/Argi (Dagudashaag 1636)
• Shéaniki/Mimu (Dagudashaag 0801)
• Sloethu/Shallows (Dagudashaag 0520)
• Uurku/Arnakhish (Dagudashaag 2405)
• Zalaana/Argi (Dagudashaag 1537)
• Zukalis/Remnants (Dagudashaag 1625)

 

[maksimsmelchak]

What is Sa?

 

[Garnfellow]

What is Sa?

It's a T5 code for Satellite: "A world orbiting a planet."

An associated code is Lk for Locked: "A Satellite in Close Orbit to its planet is Locked to it; Satellites do not have Twilight Zones."

 

[DonM]

Noted for review...

 

[maksimsmelchak]

It's a T5 code for Satellite: "A world orbiting a planet."

An associated code is Lk for Locked: "A Satellite in Close Orbit to its planet is Locked to it; Satellites do not have Twilight Zones."

Thank you, Garnfellow.

T-wiki Trade Classification Codes: http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Trade_classification

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak:

 

[DonM]

Based upon the world descriptions in Signal-GK library data entries the following worlds in Dagudashaag should be marked as "Sa".

• Adaim / Old Suns (Dagudashaag 1007)
• Aiish / Argi (Dagudashaag 1535)
• Ardchi / Shallows (Dagudashaag 0819)
• Argi / Argi (Dagudashaag 1431)
• Argiluu / Ushra (Dagudashaag 1317)
• Asimidiske / Zeda (Dagudashaag 0828)
• Baladine / Gadde (Dagudashaag 2922)
• Degushush/Old Suns (Dagudashaag 1302)
• Draskeran/Pact (Dagudashaag 2023)
• Ersharsa/Iiradu (Dagudashaag 3001)
• Gishu Amkhir/Laraa (Dagudashaag 2635)
• Gushnemasha/Mimu (Dagudashaag 0504)
• Iash/Pact (Dagudashaag 1730)
• Kemnagii/Arnakhish (Dagudashaag 1904)
• Khiradu/Iiradu (Dagudashaag 2706)
• Kiirishi/Argi (Dagudashaag 1335)
• Liikirba/Arnakhish (Dagudashaag 1705)
• Maudhii/Zeda (Dagudashaag 0423)
• McKenzie/Khandi (Dagudashaag 1717)
• Mikhid/Laraa (Dagudashaag 2836)
• Mindahm/Bolivar (Dagudashaag 0733)
• Misaruu/Arnakhish (Dagudashaag 2202)
• Reshumirak/Remnants (Dagudashaag 1025)
• Shakhii/Pact (Dagudashaag 1926)
• Sharaa/Argi (Dagudashaag 1539)
• Shulasgu/Argi (Dagudashaag 1636)
• Shéaniki/Mimu (Dagudashaag 0801)
• Sloethu/Shallows (Dagudashaag 0520)
• Uurku/Arnakhish (Dagudashaag 2405)
• Zalaana/Argi (Dagudashaag 1537)
• Zukalis/Remnants (Dagudashaag 1625)

Reviewed.

 

[DonM]

OK, last Magyar suggestion from me for a while. MGT's Alien - Solomani book introduces the Selenite variant human race. These are humans genetically modified by the Terrans for low or micro-gravity environments. Alpha Crucis has several notable Selenite worlds, but since they originated in the Terran system, there's no reason why they wouldn't have been seeded in Magyar, too. The following mainworlds in Magyar would be suitable for Selenite populations:

• Ghosh (Magyar 2526 E10068A–9)
• Needler (Magyar 2135 C10076B–B)
• Gerwalk (Magyar 2631 C100941–D)

Decided as non-canon, as the Selenite homeworld is in Alpha Crucis, and the Solomani tend to be very restrictive on their creations.

 

[DonM]

The MegaTraveller Rebellion Sourcebook shows the 20th Imperial Fleet assigned to Anise (D) subsector of Magyar (pg. 27). But there are no naval bases in Anise.

I realize the Atlas of the Imperium doesn't list any naval bases in Subsector D, but given the proximity of the Confederation border and the fact that Anise could serve as a platform for attacks into Daibei, Diaspora, and the Solomani Rim, it seems like a naval base would be a natural fit.

I would strongly recommend adding a naval base to the subsector capital, Anise (Magyar 2904).

Unfortunately, AotI is the golden source. I'm going to suggest that the Imperium hasn't built a naval base at Anise because it would be interpreted as a threat. Think subsector politics and the nobility.