OTU Only: T5SS Semi-Official Thread

[DonM]

Great, I would very interested to hear if there are reasons.

One of the things about Magyar is that most of the limited canonical information about the sector was generated by DGP, which had a unique take on the power structure of the Solomani Confederation, introducing the concept of the Member State. These are essentially independent, multisystem confederations within the larger Confederation.

Personally, I really like this concept as it further distinguishes the Confederation from the Imperium, but subsequent GT and MGT sources have not used it -- and in fact, have pretty clearly and consciously chosen a different model.

DGP described three powerful member states in Magyar, and if these states had capitals they would like correspond with three of the current capitals in the T5SS data:

Member State	Likely Capital
Wuan Technology Association	Wu (Magyar 0203 B66A99A-E) { 4 }
New Slavic Sodality	Minsk (Magyar 1512 C4319BB-C) { 2 }
Reformed Dootchen Estates	Dreesen (Magyar 1916 A201652-E) { 1 }

I guess a VERY interesting question here is, does the Confederation have Member States, or has this been completely retconned away?

If it does, the newly-expanded 4 character Allegiance code could capture this: "SoWu, SoSl, SoDo, etc."

And this IS exactly why I proposed the expansion (among many other reasons, such as fixing the Aslan government type problem).

Reviewing.

 

[DonM]

The capitals of Magyar Sector are kind of a mess. They had been assigned using the T5 {Importance} stat, but the initial pass included several subsectors with duplicate capitals. A subsequent T5SS update tweaked the Importance numbers but did not seem to tweak the capitals.

The T5 rules for capitals are unclear and contradictory, but if we combine them we get something like “the world with the highest importance and a Class A starport in a subsector is the subsector capital.”

The Imperial capitals are mostly OK. Tolson and Seloo have the exact same Importance. The T5 rules say a tie is broken by going to the number of trade codes – both Tolson and Seloo have Hi Na Po. They have the same tech level. Tolson has the larger population but also an Amber Zone. (Travel advisories do not weigh in the Importance calc). Seloo has a naval base. Taken together, I think Seloo makes more sense as a capital.

Imperial Subsector Capitals

Subsector	Current Capital	Recommendation
Clown (C)	Tolson (Magyar 2106 A432ADH-E) { 3 }	Seloo (Magyar 2102 A4319BA-E) { 3 }
Anise (D)	Anise (Magyar 2904 A5419B7-E) { 4 }	Keep as Is
Kline (H)	Kline (Magyar 3012 A541987-E) { 4 }	Keep as Is
New Mars (L)	Wicker (Magyar 2728 A541843-C) { 2 }	Keep as Is

The Solomani Confederation holds most of the systems in Magyar. Canonical sources state that the Confederation does not have subsector capitals, though the Scout service will sometimes designate Solomani administrative centers as capitals. The Solomani Rim data has Confederation subsector capitals, but the Alpha Cruics data does not. My strong preference for Magyar would be to drop the Confederation capitals altogether, but if we must keep them below are my recommendations:

Confederation Subsector Capitals

Subsector	Current Capital	Recommendation
Clan (A)	Wu (Magyar 0203 B66A99A-E) { 4 }	Sharn (Magyar 0601 A7568BG-C) { 2 }
Eery (B)	Ko's World (Magyar 1105 B569775-B) { 3 }	Chorus (Magyar 1403 A944768-C) { 4 }
Clown (C)	Clown (Magyar 1807 B431975-E) { 4 }	Phipps (Magyar 1708 A621878-D) { 2 }
Nemo (E)	Pryon (Magyar 0115 A889747-D) { 3 }	Keep as is
New Town (F)	Landgrebe (Magyar 1415 B574625-A) { 3 } Minsk (Magyar 1512 C4319BB-C) { 2 }	Patterson (Magyar 1418 A577862-C) { 3 }
Voyager (G)	Dreesen (Magyar 1916 A201652-E) { 1 }	Wackowsk (Magyar 1918 A7B5775-D) { 2 }
Iouo (I)	Ock (Magyar 0227 A9A8855-E) { 3 } Gobi (Magyar 0528 D5408AD-6) { -2 }	Iouo (Magyar 0624 A79A96B-E) { 5 }
Valhalla (J)	Uebelhor (Magyar 1324 A566877-C) { 4 } Barland (Magyar 0930 A5678A7-C) { 3 }	Uebelhor (Magyar 1324 A566877-C) { 4 }
Swan (K)	Annu-u (Magyar 1826 A560679-C) { 2 }	Ramaniam (Magyar 1927 A431869-E) { 3 }
Last Chance (M)	Zandervort (Magyar 0337 A87489D-C) { 2 }	Drang (Magyar 0233 A54379C-C) { 3 }
Black Jack (N)	Lazlo's World (Magyar 1134 A997526-D) { 3 }	Blackjack (Magyar 1438 A5119BD-E) { 4 }
Olympus (O)	Viallalta (Magyar 1833 A556542-D) { 3 }	Keep as is
Cluster (P)	Pacific (Magyar 2933 B56878B-A) { 4 }	Blackhawk (Magyar 3040 A6A568A-D) { 2 }

The Magyar Confederation data is much more problematic than the Imperial. Requiring a Class A starport means many important worlds with Class B starports get passed over. The sole canonical description of a Magyar subsector capital is from Traveller’s Digest 14, and describes the capital being forcibly moved in 1069 from Iouo to Gobi as punishment. The problem is that Gobi is so crappy that such a move would hurt the Confederation more than Iouo.

My first choice, in any case, would be to remove all Confederation subsector capitals from Magyar.

Reviewing. Your first choice is not an option.

 

[Garnfellow]

Reviewing. Your first choice is not an option.

Don, many thanks for looking at these suggestions.

 

[DonM]

I'll admit that the T5SS is definitely one of my more enjoyable activities. It makes me dig into the many boxes and files of material I have stored. It also justifies occasionally rooting through Marc's boxes of archives.

 

[DonM]

Using Rim of Fire, the following worlds in the Solomani Rim should have the "Sa" note:

• Urud (0407)
• Leonore (0807)
• Llewellyn (0907)
• Coriolanus (1105)
• Quaver (1110)
• Easter (1802)
• Ikaakur (2205)
• Nasu (2405)
• Kesirisu (2906)
• Syzygy (3006)
• Shapam (3009)
• Irashnar (3203)
• Umieh (1219)
• Galishgu (1912)
• Duikin Tyui (2015)
• Isseydo (2414)
• Shani (2415)
• Imkhammash (2617)
• Nisinasha (2812)
• Oz (0121)
• Kidashi (0528)
• Colmar (0822)
• Markhashi (1529)
• Hades (2030)
• Jael (2821)
• Epirus (2928)
• Liberte (0331)
• Dolor (0437)
• Skyron (0533)
• Krokinole (1637)

Reviewing.

 

[Garnfellow]

I see that the T5 0.9 rules for capitals, while still inconsistent, add more flexibility to the starport needed for a capital. With that in mind, Wu (Magyar 0203 B66A99A-E), Clown (Magyar 1807 B431975-E), and Pacific (Magyar 2933 B56878B-A) would all work as is and are probably preferable to the alternatives.

 

[DonM]

The following worlds in Magyar Sector would be good candidates for the addition of dolphin populations -- were part of the Rule of Man, have the right climate and hydrology, etc.:

• Kleug (2908 C88A430-B)
• Byrley (2715 C687538-9)
• Skyhaven (3118 B588501-C)
• Argon (2422 C55A755-B)
• Pacific (2933 B56878B-A)
• Aclavik (2934 C559734-9)

A dolphin population on Pacific is at least semi-canonical, from Travellers' Digest No. 14.

Reviewing. Pacific is confirmed.

 

[DonM]

I was glad to see that the next-to-last T5SS update sprinkled some Aslan populations into Magyar worlds under Solomani military rule. I would also suggest considering adding Aslan populations to the following:

• Earltras / Kimson's Stand (Dark Nebula 2527)
• Brimate / Staai (Dark Nebula 2837)
• Miken / Staai (Dark Nebula 3033)

Reviewing.

 

[DonM]

Rim of Fire has GURPS climate data for all mainworlds. I'm not sure how to map the GURPS climate categories to T5, which has only "Hot" and "Cold," both of which are described only as "Limit of Human Endurance." Does this exclude worlds beyond the limits of human endurance?

Assuming that the T5 categories only apply to "human habitable worlds," what would people think about this:

GURPS Climate Category	Temperature Range (F)	T5 Climate Code
Frozen	Below -20	N/A
Very Cold	-20 to 0	Co
Cold	0 to 20	?
Warm	80-100	?
Tropical	100-120	Ho
Hot	120 to 140	N/A
Very Hot	140 to 160	N/A
Infernal	Above 160	N/A

Reviewing, but likely delayed.

 

[Garnfellow]

Reviewing. [Adding Aslan populations to Solomani worlds in Dark Nebula.]

It looks like the current sector data on Traveller Map has already added aslan populations to these three worlds?

 

[Garnfellow]

Decided as non-canon, as the Selenite homeworld is in Alpha Crucis, and the Solomani tend to be very restrictive on their creations.

Well, I'm not sure if Velscur should really be listed as the Selenite homeworld -- I think that honor goes to Terra:

In Alpha Crucis, the colonists of many ‘worldhouse’ planets were often variant Humans from the spacer cultures that had evolved during the early years of Terran colonisation of the solar system, before the widespread introduction of gravitic technology. Most tended to be of the willowy genotype known as the Selenites, who had been adapted for early Terran colonies on Luna and Ceres [emphasis added]. They possessed subtle genetic modifications that adapted them to thrive in low or micro-gravity environments (124).

To be sure, Velscur was the first world in Alpha Crucis to undergo paraterraforming, in -2222 (p 160). But based on my reading, Selenites were kicking around the Confederation well prior to the settlement of Velscur.

This doesn't mean they belong in Magyar, but I don't think the Mongoose book expressly excludes the possibility.

 

[DonM]

Current theory as that the original Selenites were strictly just a genotype, but the 'modern' Selenites are a genuine chimera.

My current suggestion is to wrap this up and give it over to the next Solomani author. Perhaps someone interested in a Magyar book?

 

[Garnfellow]

Per Rim of Fire, the following worlds should have the Lk (Locked) remark:

Kidashi (0528)

The following worlds should have the Tz (Twilight Zone) remark:

Ugarup (0502)
Suleiman (1504)
Scaramouche (2509)
Aosta (2902)
Anacreon (1011)
Aster Tyui (1917)
Irashdaan (0524)
Polyphemus (1537)
Santorini (2938)
Caprice (3035)

Note that this is not an exhaustive list, only the worlds that were expressly mentioned in the text as being tide locked or twilight worlds. The design notes state that "Worlds orbiting Class M-V red dwarf stars were assumed to be tide-locked in most (not all) cases." A notable example of one such exception is Barsoom (0239).

 

[DonM]

Per Rim of Fire, the following worlds should have the Lk (Locked) remark:

Kidashi (0528)

The following worlds should have the Tz (Twilight Zone) remark:

Ugarup (0502)
Suleiman (1504)
Scaramouche (2509)
Aosta (2902)
Anacreon (1011)
Aster Tyui (1917)
Irashdaan (0524)
Polyphemus (1537)
Santorini (2938)
Caprice (3035)

Note that this is not an exhaustive list, only the worlds that were expressly mentioned in the text as being tide locked or twilight worlds. The design notes state that "Worlds orbiting Class M-V red dwarf stars were assumed to be tide-locked in most (not all) cases." A notable example of one such exception is Barsoom (0239).

Reviewing.

 

[Garnfellow]

Morgana / Ultima (Solomani Rim 0501) should have a population of Gurungan per Mongoose: Solomani Rim, p 46.

 

[Garnfellow]

The following worlds, per Mongoose: Solomani Rim, should have dolphin populations:

• Irashdaa / Albadawi (Solomani Rim 0524) (p 82)
• Terra / Sol (Solomani Rim 1827) (p 90). Should it also include [dolphin] and [ape]?
• Hamilcar / Gemini (Solomani Rim 1738) (p 104), 13% of the world population (p 106)
• Calgary / Gemini (Solomani Rim 2031) (p 104)
• Thetis / Kukulkan (Solomani Rim 2538), 8% of the world population (p 110)

 

[Garnfellow]

The following worlds, according to Mongoose Traveller: Solomani Rim, should have aslan populations:

• Sarmaty / Alderamin (Solomani Rim 0217) (p 32)
• Tonopah / Albadawi (Solomani Rim 0723) (p 32)

The following worlds, according to GURPS Traveller: Rim of Fire, should have aslan populations:

• Iddamakur (Solomani Rim 0110) (p 65)
• Suleiman (Solomani Rim 1504) (p 72), 10% of the population

 

[DonM]

[*]Terra / Sol (Solomani Rim 1827) (p 90). Should it also include [dolphin] and [ape]?
[/list]

Not at this time. While the genetics of Dolp and UApe pops may come from Terra, the uplifting doesn't appear to have been done there, and there are no noted populations of either on Terra.

Reviewing the rest, but this may take some time.

 

[Garnfellow]

Solomani Rim Capitals

I will put in another plea to revert the T5SS changes to subsector capitals in the Solomani Rim:

Subsector	Previous Capital	T5SS Capital
Ultima (Subsector A)	Thamber (0704 A554898-C)	Iddamakur (0110 A7799AB-A)
Suleiman (Subsector B)	Suleiman (1504 AA6598B-E)	Ascalon (1207 A562AAF-E)
Concord (Subsector C)	Eleusis (2109 A789831-D)	Ephemir (2308 A675999-E)
Banasdan (Subsector H)	Banasdan (2920 A653A54-F)	Murphy (2517 A5449BE-E)
Albadawi (Subsector I)	Gaea (0722 A986986-E)	Eneldun (0326 A31498A-E)
Sol (Subsector K)	Lagash (2121 A667A8B-F)	Agidda (1824 A974979-C)
Arcturus (Subsector L)	Jael (2821 A55789A-C)	Tewfik (2528 A524945-D)

While the new capitals do reflect more Important worlds per the T5 Importance mechanic, they also override established canon -- including the recent Mongoose Traveller: Solomani Rim book. The canonical sources for the Rim are all very good, and often include reasonable rationales for why, through various quirks of history, these particular worlds were chosen as capitals.

I just don't think any of the new capitals are dramatically better choices, and in cases like that I would strongly recommend staying with established canon.

 

[Garnfellow]

Not at this time. While the genetics of Dolp and UApe pops may come from Terra, the uplifting doesn't appear to have been done there

Yeah, it's a weird case.

and there are no noted populations of either on Terra.

From Page 90 of the Mongoose Solomani Rim book:

Terra’s population live in a mix of giant arcologies and more traditional cities and towns. There are many underwater cities and a large population of uplifted dolphins.