OTU Only: T5SS Semi-Official Thread

[Garnfellow]

Ambemshan

Ambemshan / Shurlarlem (Antares 0216) is apparently the homeworld of the Cassildans, per pp 546 and 572 of the T5 Core Rules. Although the name is rendered "Ambemshem" there, given other problems on those pages plus the fact that the UWP and stellar data are exact matches, recommend adding "(Cassilldans)" to the notes.

 

[DonM]

Got that, and the Oc/Wa coding.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

Don, now that have my database back, I have a question about three systems which do not appear in travellermap at this time, but appear in a canon source (T4 First Survey)
Antares Sector pg 65
834 Imga. B000000-B Ast Va Ba 000 G4 V

Dagudashaag Sector pg 81
835 Shakana. C555500-6 Ag Ni 115 F1 V
pg. 82
1402 Undba Ii. E697211-6 LoPop 503 M3 V

I realise that the UWP data can be all funny being it from T4, but hey First Survey is 1000 years ago. Metagame-wise I know the UWP would not be compliant, but within game, unless something was important to hide, the Scout Service would not dump known systems?
In the first case, I ask can this be included revised stats? There is precedence already for unpopulated systems in canon sectors:
Deneb 2016 Ugrik E300000-0
Fornast 2404 Kulabisha E687000-0
Fornast 3228 Hyacinthe E436000-0
Reaver's Deep 3112 Arthur E566000-0
Spinward Marches 2905 Pavanne E310000-0
Spinward Marches 1214 728-907 E955000-0
Spinward Marches 1520 Tavonni E567000-0
Spinward Marches 1337 Judice E9B2000-0
Trojan Reach 2814 971-852 E78A000-0
Zarushagar 917 Deyis II E874000-0

In the case of the other two, could they be included in some manner, even by killing off the population and leaving a Di (Dieback) designation? Or do a Dieback for Imga also?

 

[DonM]

Marc has informed me that T4's First Survey is NOT a canon source.

 

[maksimsmelchak]

Ambemshan / Shurlarlem (Antares 0216) is apparently the homeworld of the Cassildans, per pp 546 and 572 of the T5 Core Rules. Although the name is rendered "Ambemshem" there, given other problems on those pages plus the fact that the UWP and stellar data are exact matches, recommend adding "(Cassilldans)" to the notes.

Hey Garnfellow and Gang,

Please check over this entry:

External Link: [http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Ambemshan_(world)) ]

Thanks!

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

Marc has informed me that T4's First Survey is NOT a canon source.

Thanks Don! I will keep this in mind for future reference in discussions of canon.

 

[DonM]

T4's UWPs had no source... ultimately, they were generated with no reference to the 1105 UWPs, so sometimes world size is different.

I can believe in the power of terraforming, but changing world size confuses me... especially when asteroid belts (T4) are supposed to become size 7 worlds (1105).

 

[inexorabletash]

In rare cases, which world in a system is considered the MainWorld could change. 1000 years is a long time, so I would imagine there are multiple examples, but that shouldn't be common.

 

[Garnfellow]

In rare cases, which world in a system is considered the MainWorld could change. 1000 years is a long time, so I would imagine there are multiple examples, but that shouldn't be common.

I'm not sure it would necessarily be all that uncommon. A lot of those high pop systems with really crappy homeworlds might have started on nice, habitable worlds. But that hellworld in a hot orbit was where all the jobs were, and once the tech level made living on the hellworld not so hellish, you got steady population movement. Or that naval base on the gas giant moon. Or the original, habitable world was rendered uninhabitable by radiation, overpopulation, etc.

 

[DonM]

So you don't mind a universe where there's no relationship between the M0 world and the M1105 world? Like they were two different systems, much less two different universes?

 

[aramis]

So you don't mind a universe where there's no relationship between the M0 world and the M1105 world? Like they were two different systems, much less two different universes?

It's plausible that a few such cases might be mainworld shifts from component A to Component B of a Very Far Companion system. Or unrelated systems up to 0.9 Pc apart, really.

 

[Garnfellow]

So you don't mind a universe where there's no relationship between the M0 world and the M1105 world? Like they were two different systems, much less two different universes?

I don't think it should be common or even uncommon, but I don't mind occasional changes. Frankly I find sectors and sectors of UWPs with little or no changes over a millennia to be even more implausible.

If the mainworld is supposed to be the same planet in both datasets, yeah size should be the same. (Unless we're talking an Alderaan.) But atmosphere and hydrosphere could vary within reason. And social and political codes should probably show significant change. Over a thousand years barren worlds can become high pop and high pop worlds depopulated.

But that said, the UWP reflects only the mainworld, and the mainworld is only the most Important world in the system, and Importance presumably changes over time -- meaning the world designated mainworld ought to change on occasion. How frequently? I don't know, but I probably wouldn't blink at a half dozen or a dozen or so systems per sector per 1,000 years.

I think this variability offers tons of interesting plot hooks: consider a system where habitable planet X was the historical mainworld, but has recently been surpassed in Importance by Y, a high tech industrial hellworld. The Scout Service has reassigned the mainworld, and the subsector duke has thrown her weight behind the change, but the old gentry on X will have nothing to do with it. All trade is supposed to pass through Y's Class A starport, but X still has a quality spaceport with refined fuel and jump drive repair facilities. Enterprising PCs might find all sorts of interesting opportunities in such a system.

 

[tjoneslo]

It's plausible that a few such cases might be mainworld shifts from component A to Component B of a Very Far Companion system. Or unrelated systems up to 0.9 Pc apart, really.

There is a write up of such a world in the Dagudashaag Sector library data worlds.

I spent some time calculating out the relative motion of stars. Over a 1,000 years, at least a few should move from one hex to another. By my calculations based upon the real world, somewhere around 50 should be moved hexes over that time.

 

[ovka]

Another Hydrographics "C" World

Vanguard Reaches 0240 Vomisa I B87C355-C

 

[inexorabletash]

Vanguard Reaches 0240 Vomisa I B87C355-C

Also (may be called out before):
VANG 0440 Nevin Yrral A89B999-D
BEYO 1814 Rusty C83B88B-8

If anyone wants to mail me a list of illegal values or combinations (e.g. "can't have Hyd X if Atm is < Z") I can automate those checks.

 

[Garnfellow]

If anyone wants to mail me a list of illegal values or combinations (e.g. "can't have Hyd X if Atm is < Z") I can automate those checks.

Here are the salient ones from T5 worldgen:

Size limited to range of 0-15 (F)
Atmosphere limited to range of 0-15 (F)

Size Restrictions on Atmosphere

Size	Min	Max
0	0	0
1	0	6
2	0	7
3	0	8
4	0	9
5	0	A
6	1	B
7	2	C
8	3	D
9	4	E
A	5	F
B	6	F
C	7	F
D	8	F
E	9	F
F	A	F

Hydrosphere limited to range of 0-10 (A)

Atmosphere Restrictions on Hydro

Atmo	Min	Max
0	0	0
1	0	2
2	0	3
3	0	8
4	0	9
5	0	A
6	1	A
7	2	A
8	3	A
9	4	A
A	1	A
B	2	A
C	3	A
D	4	A
E	5	A
F	6	A

Also, worlds of size 0 or 1 must have hydro of 0.

 

[Garnfellow]

You know, looking a little harder at those restrictions I am not sure that I am ready to declare something outside those parameters as "illegal," simply "not possible under T5 world generation."

The latter is just a game mechanic, and maybe the former should be reserved for things that are not possible under planetology as we understand it now.

If you applied those T5 limits to the existing SS data, I think you would find it kicks out a lot of exotic atmosphere worlds that seem plausible, like worlds of size 3 or 4 or worlds with a hydro of 0.

Or to go another way, if you used the GURPS Traveller: Interstellar Wars world generation sequence (which is pretty good, IMHO) desert worlds (either rock or ice) can be size 3 or 4 with atmosphere of A or even B. Meanwhile glacier, greenhouse, and subgiant woulds could easily have atmosphere A and hydro 0. You couldn't produce these results in a mainworld using T5.

Maybe the question should be, should T5 world gen be modified to occassionally generate these types of worlds?

 

[Blue Ghost]

I'm just curious here, is this thread in part generated because of the old "implausible worlds" thread a few years back, where some UPPs had TL0 civs on vacuum worlds, or water worlds with no atmosphere kind of thing?

 

[maksimsmelchak]

I'm just curious here, is this thread in part generated because of the old "implausible worlds" thread a few years back, where some UPPs had TL0 civs on vacuum worlds, or water worlds with no atmosphere kind of thing?

*** Is a TL-0 world possible in T5SS? ***

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

 

[Blue Ghost]

I have no idea. I haven't done any world generation with T5, which is why I'm asking.