The 200 ton Yacht design contest!
- Thread starter robject
- Start date
I suppose it might be a way for primary solar sail ships to 'tack against the solar wind', and use solar panels to power the laser.
Look ma, no fuel!
CT turret missiles have implausible delta-v for their size relative to payload, which is why I suggested them.
Plausible rocket motors wouldn't do it.
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
CT turret missiles have implausible delta-v for their size relative to payload, which is why I suggested them.
Plausible rocket motors wouldn't do it.
The rockets specified in Traveller as drives has just as implausible performance. The massive amounts of fuel gives hours of high acceleration, instead of just a few minutes.
Still not enough to be even remotely competitive with gravitic drives.
I think CT book2 or MGT1, it's been long enough that I'm not sure.
And if it was CT, then my justification was "nobles want a lagre l8brary and good sensors."
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
1. If the worry is burn through, diffused beam laser; optionally, firmpointed variant with seventy five percent energy.
2. You could replace the sail with something more solid, like an iron dome, which sort of harks back to the ion drive; i(r)on drive?
2. You could replace the sail with something more solid, like an iron dome, which sort of harks back to the ion drive; i(r)on drive?
The main problem I see on it is that I can think on very few situations where a ship with functioning Power Plant and Lasers must be abandoned...
In fact, I see this situation rare enough as not being worth a boat built for it.
IMHO it would be better to have a foldable solar power plant (photovoltaic cells) and small thrusters. Even at the outer system, I guess the power would be enough to keep life support and move the boat at very low G.
Last edited:
It's viable with TL 7.5 tech (that is, it can be done now). Well, aside from the frozen zombie storage part of it anyhow. And maybe not the "kill the outbound vector of a couple hours acceleration toward Jump Limit at 1G before having to bail out" part too.
Buffing The Collector Yacht Shuttle
From my proposal at this post.
Executive Summary:
I hadn't applied TL Stage Effects to the Jump Drive. That frees up 5 tons.
Those 5 tons are enough to hold a 5 ton 6G speedster that doubles as a tiny fuel shuttle.
I ramble a lot about how I justify all this, and add a little setting chrome.
The Extended Dance Remix:
You see the problem. Unless it's carrying a small craft, the pilot's kinda stuck out there. It's supposed to always be carrying a 99Td Shuttle Yacht, so it's never an issue. Except... if for some reason it has to leave that behind, or the Shuttle Yacht can't get back to it... yeah.*
So it needs a small craft. Which means rules-lawyering some space out of existing components for it.
The Collectors are what they are.
The bridge is too -- mostly. (I'll come back to that.)
But the Jump Drive? As GLaDOS put it, "The device has been modified."
J-drive is 10Td, MCr10. Saves MCr5, frees up 5Td.
5Td is enough room for a LBB5 small craft (4.5Td is the smallest possible):
Speedster/Tiny Fuel Shuttle
5Td, 6G/Agility=6, EP=1. Crew=1. Computer=0. No weapons. 1Td fuel.
0.495Td fuel in collapsible tank. Passengers=1 if collapsible tank empty.
MCr6.15525
TL 15
The needle configuration hull is streamlined for hypersonic flight in atmosphere. It has two fixed wings amidships for lift, and three retractable fins each at the tail and nose to stabilize flight in either nose-first or tail-first orientation. The tail fins double as landing gear -- it's a tailsitter. In applicable rulesets, this is an airframe hull.
There's an acceleration couch for the pilot (it's a G-tank if the ruleset provides for such) and a folding acceleration couch for a passenger.
There is also a 0.495Td collapsible tank that expands into the passenger space, and the passenger couch folds out of the way to accommodate it.
It can scoop and deliver 1Td unrefined fuel per refueling sortie, as well as serving as an auxiliary fuel tank for the Jump Shuttle.
With the Jump Shuttle's own 1Td fuel plus 1Td from the Speedster/Tanker, the Jump Shuttle has 8 weeks of endurance on its Pn-1 power plant (while the Jump Drive is entirely powered by the Collectors, and the Speedser/Tanker is shut down when not in use).
Maneuver drive is 6G, but overpowered. The (house-ruled) effects of this are:
Note that the pilot's control couch provides the best available G resistance of the ruleset in use; the fold-away passenger couch, if in use, provides the standard G resistance of that ruleset.
Line item breakdown:
Take it to the bridge
T5.1 allows an acceptable bridge that's less than 20Td. This justifies carving a couple of tons out of the standard LBB2/LBB5 20Td bridge for living space, so the pilot doesn't have to spend weeks on end in just a half-stateroom. In LBB2 terms, the space that would have been used for a couple of extra control couches is instead open space, as is some volume that would have been access corridors. The bridge and half-stateroom are adjacent to the jump drive and maintenance-power power plant, which are situated between the two Collectors. Therefore, access corridor lengths are minimal. (Basically, this is just moving open space around on the deck plans, not changing anything on the build sheet.)
And there you have it. It now has a small craft for pilot egress and refueling, and the pilot has a little more elbow room than you might expect from just the CT figures. And I didn't have to bend the rules too far to pull it off.
*Emergency last-ditch escape procedure:
From my proposal at this post.
Executive Summary:
I hadn't applied TL Stage Effects to the Jump Drive. That frees up 5 tons.
Those 5 tons are enough to hold a 5 ton 6G speedster that doubles as a tiny fuel shuttle.
I ramble a lot about how I justify all this, and add a little setting chrome.
The Extended Dance Remix:
You see the problem. Unless it's carrying a small craft, the pilot's kinda stuck out there. It's supposed to always be carrying a 99Td Shuttle Yacht, so it's never an issue. Except... if for some reason it has to leave that behind, or the Shuttle Yacht can't get back to it... yeah.*
So it needs a small craft. Which means rules-lawyering some space out of existing components for it.
The Collectors are what they are.
The bridge is too -- mostly. (I'll come back to that.)
But the Jump Drive? As GLaDOS put it, "The device has been modified."
J-drive is 10Td, MCr10. Saves MCr5, frees up 5Td.
Spoiler:
Speedster/Tiny Fuel Shuttle
5Td, 6G/Agility=6, EP=1. Crew=1. Computer=0. No weapons. 1Td fuel.
0.495Td fuel in collapsible tank. Passengers=1 if collapsible tank empty.
MCr6.15525
TL 15
The needle configuration hull is streamlined for hypersonic flight in atmosphere. It has two fixed wings amidships for lift, and three retractable fins each at the tail and nose to stabilize flight in either nose-first or tail-first orientation. The tail fins double as landing gear -- it's a tailsitter. In applicable rulesets, this is an airframe hull.
There's an acceleration couch for the pilot (it's a G-tank if the ruleset provides for such) and a folding acceleration couch for a passenger.
There is also a 0.495Td collapsible tank that expands into the passenger space, and the passenger couch folds out of the way to accommodate it.
It can scoop and deliver 1Td unrefined fuel per refueling sortie, as well as serving as an auxiliary fuel tank for the Jump Shuttle.
With the Jump Shuttle's own 1Td fuel plus 1Td from the Speedster/Tanker, the Jump Shuttle has 8 weeks of endurance on its Pn-1 power plant (while the Jump Drive is entirely powered by the Collectors, and the Speedser/Tanker is shut down when not in use).
Maneuver drive is 6G, but overpowered. The (house-ruled) effects of this are:
Spoiler:
Line item breakdown:
Spoiler:
Take it to the bridge
T5.1 allows an acceptable bridge that's less than 20Td. This justifies carving a couple of tons out of the standard LBB2/LBB5 20Td bridge for living space, so the pilot doesn't have to spend weeks on end in just a half-stateroom. In LBB2 terms, the space that would have been used for a couple of extra control couches is instead open space, as is some volume that would have been access corridors. The bridge and half-stateroom are adjacent to the jump drive and maintenance-power power plant, which are situated between the two Collectors. Therefore, access corridor lengths are minimal. (Basically, this is just moving open space around on the deck plans, not changing anything on the build sheet.)
And there you have it. It now has a small craft for pilot egress and refueling, and the pilot has a little more elbow room than you might expect from just the CT figures. And I didn't have to bend the rules too far to pull it off.
*Emergency last-ditch escape procedure:
Spoiler:
Last edited:
Not Really a Yacht, But It Kinda Fits Here
200Td Encapsulated-Collector Yacht
The Secret Wind is a 200Td cutting-edge Collector-powered luxury transport for 8 passengers, one of whom is provided a two-stateroom suite. It is capable of Jump-3 and 1G, and streamlined for atmospheric operation, fuel skimming, and landing. Armament is one triple turret (MLS) It carries a 20Td 6G Gig and an Improved Air/Raft. Five tons of cargo space is available. The crew of 7 is comprised of the pilot, navigator, medic, steward, two engineers and one gunner -- each in a standard stateroom. 10Td fuel supports 4 weeks of operation. It is TL 15 and costs MCr108.365.
The collector is protected from acceleration, gravity, and atmosphere by enclosure in a sealed bay when retracted. It keeps the canopy safely in hard vacuum and 0G with full inertial compensation. (Bay specs follow):
Standard operating procedure is to retain 1 parsec of jump range on arrival, should a hasty departure be called for.
If that is not possible, the ship will arrive in the outer system to hinder detection, briefly accelerate toward the mainworld, then coast and deploy the Collector Canopy. 3.5 days of operation will provide Jump-1 worth of energy. After charging for a Jump-1, the ship will stow the Collector Canopy and decelerate to a stop at the mainworld (or the 100D limit, depending on the threat conditions).
Visits to the world's surface are via the 20Td Gig.
Though the ship is streamlined, it almost never lands. It can and does skim gas giants for fuel; since the fuel is not used for Jump, refining is unnecessary. (See Care and Feeding of Your Encapsulated Collector Canopy, below.)
The Gig can transport the Improved Air/Raft to planetary surfaces. Alternately, it can serve as a scoopship/tanker for the Yacht, collecting 5Td (2 weeks) fuel per sortie.
Encapsulated-Collector Yacht:
20Td Gig, 6G (TL 15)
The Suite Gig is a fast auxiliary craft for the Yacht Secret Wind. It is capable of 6G acceleration, streamlined (needle configuration) and has a triple turret (MMS) and a Mod/2 (as Mod/1) computer. It has a starship stateroom and eight passenger seats, plus seats for the pilot and gunner. It holds 5.5 Td of cargo, which permits transporting the air/raft plus 1.5Td cargo, or filling the 5Td collapsible tank and carrying 0.5Td cargo. Its 4 week fuel supply is 1.2Td. It costs MCr16.6.
The small craft crew normally lives aboard during Jump transit. The stateroom's life support supports two personnel; the passenger seats can be stowed to provide living space equal to a second stateroom. In normal in-system operation, the stateroom is the owner's suite.
20Td Gig:
Care and Feeding of Your Encapsulated Collector Canopy:
Planetary landings present a great risk of canopy destruction. Do not attempt except under extraordinary circumstances.
The Collector Bay physically cannot be opened while the ship is in an atmosphere due to the pressure differential. The Collector canopy will be destroyed if the vacuum in the bay is broken or if the artificial gravity fails while the ship is subject to more than 0.1G acceleration (either from maneuver or being parked on a world with UWP size code 2+).
The artificial gravity system requires (house rule) 1EP/100Td of collector bay when the ship is grounded on a Size 2+ world. This power draw includes operation of vacuum pumps.
The bay door seals will fail rapidly if exposed to corrosive or insidious atmospheres (or equivalent chemicals) as per Vacc Suit failure rules.
The canopy will charge its accumulator with 10% capacity per day, or enough for a Jump-1 in three and a half days including time to deploy and stow.
(House Rule) The Collector provides power for basic ship systems while the ship is in jumpspace, though only while it is in jumpspace. (This is because it replaces a power plant that would be producing EP=Jn*Td/100 through the entire Jump, based on fuel consumption rates.) In normal space, a different power source is necessary.
Unlike the Collector on ANNIC NOVA in Double Adventure 1, T5 (and MgT) Collectors can function normally without proximity to a star.
Ruleset Incompatibility:
LBB2: Jump Drive is too small. (In-universe explanation: it's a Size A Drive built with the same tweaks that make the TL 15 Size Z Drives so much better than they should be.)
Component Sources:
T5.1: Collector-3 and Jump Drive (TL Stage Effects applied to J-Drive C ).
LBB5: 20Td Gig (collapsible tank is from TCS)
LBB2, LBB5: Bridge, M-Drive, Power Plant, computer, staterooms.
200Td Encapsulated-Collector Yacht
The Secret Wind is a 200Td cutting-edge Collector-powered luxury transport for 8 passengers, one of whom is provided a two-stateroom suite. It is capable of Jump-3 and 1G, and streamlined for atmospheric operation, fuel skimming, and landing. Armament is one triple turret (MLS) It carries a 20Td 6G Gig and an Improved Air/Raft. Five tons of cargo space is available. The crew of 7 is comprised of the pilot, navigator, medic, steward, two engineers and one gunner -- each in a standard stateroom. 10Td fuel supports 4 weeks of operation. It is TL 15 and costs MCr108.365.
The collector is protected from acceleration, gravity, and atmosphere by enclosure in a sealed bay when retracted. It keeps the canopy safely in hard vacuum and 0G with full inertial compensation. (Bay specs follow):
Spoiler:
If that is not possible, the ship will arrive in the outer system to hinder detection, briefly accelerate toward the mainworld, then coast and deploy the Collector Canopy. 3.5 days of operation will provide Jump-1 worth of energy. After charging for a Jump-1, the ship will stow the Collector Canopy and decelerate to a stop at the mainworld (or the 100D limit, depending on the threat conditions).
Visits to the world's surface are via the 20Td Gig.
Though the ship is streamlined, it almost never lands. It can and does skim gas giants for fuel; since the fuel is not used for Jump, refining is unnecessary. (See Care and Feeding of Your Encapsulated Collector Canopy, below.)
The Gig can transport the Improved Air/Raft to planetary surfaces. Alternately, it can serve as a scoopship/tanker for the Yacht, collecting 5Td (2 weeks) fuel per sortie.
Encapsulated-Collector Yacht:
Spoiler:
The Suite Gig is a fast auxiliary craft for the Yacht Secret Wind. It is capable of 6G acceleration, streamlined (needle configuration) and has a triple turret (MMS) and a Mod/2 (as Mod/1) computer. It has a starship stateroom and eight passenger seats, plus seats for the pilot and gunner. It holds 5.5 Td of cargo, which permits transporting the air/raft plus 1.5Td cargo, or filling the 5Td collapsible tank and carrying 0.5Td cargo. Its 4 week fuel supply is 1.2Td. It costs MCr16.6.
The small craft crew normally lives aboard during Jump transit. The stateroom's life support supports two personnel; the passenger seats can be stowed to provide living space equal to a second stateroom. In normal in-system operation, the stateroom is the owner's suite.
20Td Gig:
Spoiler:
Planetary landings present a great risk of canopy destruction. Do not attempt except under extraordinary circumstances.
The Collector Bay physically cannot be opened while the ship is in an atmosphere due to the pressure differential. The Collector canopy will be destroyed if the vacuum in the bay is broken or if the artificial gravity fails while the ship is subject to more than 0.1G acceleration (either from maneuver or being parked on a world with UWP size code 2+).
The artificial gravity system requires (house rule) 1EP/100Td of collector bay when the ship is grounded on a Size 2+ world. This power draw includes operation of vacuum pumps.
The bay door seals will fail rapidly if exposed to corrosive or insidious atmospheres (or equivalent chemicals) as per Vacc Suit failure rules.
The canopy will charge its accumulator with 10% capacity per day, or enough for a Jump-1 in three and a half days including time to deploy and stow.
(House Rule) The Collector provides power for basic ship systems while the ship is in jumpspace, though only while it is in jumpspace. (This is because it replaces a power plant that would be producing EP=Jn*Td/100 through the entire Jump, based on fuel consumption rates.) In normal space, a different power source is necessary.
Unlike the Collector on ANNIC NOVA in Double Adventure 1, T5 (and MgT) Collectors can function normally without proximity to a star.
Ruleset Incompatibility:
LBB2: Jump Drive is too small. (In-universe explanation: it's a Size A Drive built with the same tweaks that make the TL 15 Size Z Drives so much better than they should be.)
Component Sources:
T5.1: Collector-3 and Jump Drive (TL Stage Effects applied to J-Drive C ).
LBB5: 20Td Gig (collapsible tank is from TCS)
LBB2, LBB5: Bridge, M-Drive, Power Plant, computer, staterooms.
Last edited:
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
Unless you have house-ruled that too, Collectors doesn't work that way. Each jump takes one complete charge from the Collector (B2 p126) and the Collector loses its charge in a day when not deployed for charging (B2 p189).
So, the jump completely discharges a Collector, and even if you have two Collectors both will be discharged when you exit jump.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
For Collectors, someone once came up with a breakaway hull option, in that you have franchises based in each system, just trolling about collecting exotic particles, and when a starship arrives, it just switches out their exhausted collectors for a new set, and be on their way.
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
I don't know if, or where, that is defined for the OTU.
I agree that it is an unknown technology in the 3I, hence I would assume an Imperial shipyard wouldn't know what to make of it.
Somewhere there is an industrial base that can produce and service collectors, as illustrated by the Annic Nova, but that is presumably at least not public knowledge in the 3I.
I thought collectors didn't need jump governors because that was a trait of jump drives? Now it turns out they never had one in the first place.
Also (and this is reaching back to ANNIC NOVA), what's the point its of having two jump drives when only one can ever be used because a charged collector can't be carried through a week-long jump -- wear balancing? And it retcons that ship's Collector-3 plus Collector-2 capability (and with the later retcon, it would have needed to be Collector-5) into being simply a Collector-3 without a jump governor. In hindsight, it really seems like the dual drives were to get around the "no jump governor exists" 1977 rules.
I kind of get the game mechanic intent here. I disagree -- mostly because of the description in DA1, but I get it. If you can carry a charged collector, you can charge one then disconnect the canopy and leave it behind. This means you can carry a whole bunch of charged accumulators instead of fuel, breaking the game.
Like this:
Last edited:
And that annual service is critical. After two years of use they rapidly degrade into uselessness. Again, game mechanics: the purpose is to make them a cost-prohibitive curiosity rather than a practical power system.
Further, that industrial base must be within 37 parsecs of Keng/Regina (SM 2405), assuming that the ship was within its operating radius, had traveled in a straight line to reach Keng, always did 3-parsec jumps, and always jumped as soon as possible. It's almost certainly much closer than that.
At Jump-3 maximum with 1 week between jumps, its long-term average pace is Jump 1.5. If it recharges for both jump drives simultaneously and can carry one charged through jump, its long-term average pace is Jump 2.5 and its home base can be 62 parsecs from Keng.
Then again, if the average recharge time is actually the 1D weeks given in DA1 (and collectors leak down), the home base is within 27 parsecs of Keng.
Last edited:
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
Jump Governors are different things in CT and T5. In CT they control fuel usage, but in T5 they control possible jump length.
That has never been clear. It's supposed to be alien and mysterious?
Later there was speculation about them forming a Hieronymus drive?
re two jump drives.
ANNIC NOVA almost predated Traveller, so the AN with its two-jump-drive-thing was probably an early experiment of the edges of Book 2 ship design. Presumably you can do two back-to-back jumps if you had to, giving you tremendous legs for a "trader".
Then Marc as usual takes these edge cases and uses them for new edge cases.
Perhaps you can "buy" them "charged" at the starport. Mounted on a grappled pod hull to bypass installation times.
Probably effective at scale with time-sensitive payloads. A clipper perhaps.
ANNIC NOVA almost predated Traveller, so the AN with its two-jump-drive-thing was probably an early experiment of the edges of Book 2 ship design. Presumably you can do two back-to-back jumps if you had to, giving you tremendous legs for a "trader".
Then Marc as usual takes these edge cases and uses them for new edge cases.
Perhaps you can "buy" them "charged" at the starport. Mounted on a grappled pod hull to bypass installation times.
Probably effective at scale with time-sensitive payloads. A clipper perhaps.
The other thing is that this means that if a Collector ship is detected by hostiles, it's toast. Edit: It can't stand by with the canopy folded -- it has to be left open until just before Jump. "...loses its charge in a day..." means that a collector-1 can't jump except just after folding the canopy. A collector-2 might be able to last the whole day and still have enough power for a jump-1. Maybe.
It can't maneuver, and in High Guard it has to absorb three turns worth of hits before it can finish folding the canopy to jump.
- Engagements begin at long range.
- The decision to break off cannot occur before the engagement begins, therefore detection must happen at that range.
- One turn is 1/3 hour
- Collector ship cannot change range, so attacker gets one round at long and two at short range.
- The canopy is extremely vulnerable to battle damage.
- One can reasonably assume that a hit to the collector's accumulator is going to have catastrophic results.
It's probably worse in T5 with its jump flash detection, but all you need to do is follow the carried craft back to it. And if some small craft drops into your system out of nowhere, you can be pretty sure it came in via a collector-drive parent ship because anything else acting like that would have to send a tanker in.
My workaround (with the first version) is to have a monitoring drone at what amounts to beyond long range. This means that attackers have to go through the drone's long range and short range before getting into the carrier ship's long range.
Last edited:
