CT Only: The overwhelming utility of grav vehicles

[mike wightman]

The air/raft is TL8
According to HG the m-drive and fusion pp are TL7

Air/Raft (TL8) Cr600,000, 4 tons. A light anti-gravity vehicle which uses nullgrav
modules to counteract gravity for lift and propulsion

 

[Tobias]

Yeah, I'm going with the later TL 9 introduction date of grav vehicles and fusion power. Basically I'm picking whatever seems to make more sense from the sources in that regard.
(Although ISTR by MegaTrav's standards, we should be at least mid-TL 9 by now...)

 

[Rupert]

Current EV battery tech is something like TL12 by MT and TNE standards...

 

[Condottiere]

Currently, batteries are listed at technological levels ten and twelve, with a fifty percent increase in energy density.

Going by customization rules, you could make the gravitational motors more energy efficient.

 

[Tobias]

I don't know, Striker does not seem to be too far off (although batteries are only mentioned in context with powering lasers): At TL 8, one kg of battery holds ~0.35 kWh. That's in the correct ballpark for current or near future EVs if my maths is correct.
MT seems to be the same with 0.4 kWh per kg. At TL 12 they have 1 kWh per kg. I would hope we advance a bit faster than that, but it'd be wrong to say we're already there.

 

[Rupert]

I don't know, Striker does not seem to be too far off (although batteries are only mentioned in context with powering lasers): At TL 8, one kg of battery holds ~0.35 kWh. That's in the correct ballpark for current or near future EVs if my maths is correct.
MT seems to be the same with 0.4 kWh per kg. At TL 12 they have 1 kWh per kg. I would hope we advance a bit faster than that, but it'd be wrong to say we're already there.

Hmm. I thought the MT batteries were much the same as the TNE ones, when in fact they're quire different - strangely low density for one thing. Probably the best thing about these batteries is that they have no discharge rate limit (unlike TNE's and real-life batteries).

BTW currently EV car batteries are managing .45 kW-h per Litre. Of course, being denser than water (unlike the Striker and MT batteries) they don't have that much energy per kilogram.

 

[Marcatlas]

Grav vehicles being introduced at TL9 is not inconsistent with grav vehicles becoming ubiquitous at TL10.

For the price they are not ubiquitous at ANY TL

 

[chipla]

I always laughed at that pronouncement. At the price they are in CT only the EXTREMELY wealthy could afford them so they are quite rare and not at all "ubiquitous". Remember to calculate using 1 Credit = 6 or 7 current USD

I don’t have the CT book but in MgT 2e the air/raft is 250,000 credits. Taking a credit as a 1977 dollar - that’s $1.3m (rounding up) which is a fairly decent amount of cash if you pay it all upfront.

In reality though many people will likely lease or lease to buy their air/rafts - using a handy auto lease calculator with a down payment of 9000cr and a five year lease to buy contract you’re paying 4,459.62cr a month and 291cr in taxes (assuming you live in the space republic of space Korea and pay their space taxes).

4.7k a month isn’t cheap but it’s affordable by the middle classes. A ten year lease puts you into the 2.7k a month range (assuming the same down payment).

This is of course assuming you get it factory new with all the bells and whistles it allegedly comes with (like a radio and air con, both of which have now broken in my pos car in the hottest summer on record…) A second hand air/raft probably has a good chunk of its value knocked off, my 2007 Gentra Diamond cost me about 800,000 last year. When new it was 25,000,000. Next year when I finally get rid of the hunk of junk it’s gonna be worth whatever I have to pay to get the junk man to take it. I suspect air/rafts will have similar depreciation, those who care about face or who can afford it will get a new one every five years or so, while people who don’t qualify for leases like myself (I’m a non Korean citizen) or those who really can’t afford it will buy on the second hand market for whatever the market will allow for.

Or you’ll have the subscription model that’s getting popular here in Korea where you pay a subscription each month and get guaranteed access to a class of car each monthly period - it’s like a monthly rental but cheaper since the bulk of the business is mid-long term subscriptions of 6months to multi-year. (It’s also good for the face conscious since you’ll always have access to the newest model of your category).

 

[atpollard]

My dislike of GRAV VEHICLES is simpler ... the Technology "opportunity cost" is too high for an early TL introduction: no SSTO, no Space Planes, no space elevator ... whatever you want to get to/from space, just import an Air\raft instead.

[PS: LBB5 places it at TL 7 for MD w/ Fusion PP Small Craft]

 

[atpollard]

For the price they are not ubiquitous at ANY TL

Traveller has an increasing per-capita GDP with TL ... so at higher TLs that price point slides down from "super-wealthy" to "wealthy" to "middle class".

 

[Rupert]

CT had ground cars at Cr4,000, ATVs at Cr30,000, a twin-engined jet (basically a Learjet) at Cr1,000,000, and the Air/Raft at Cr600,000. That's a hefty price tag for something that's very simple and barebones, aside from the effectively unlimited duration and handy hover and VTOL capability.

At that price it's not cheap even for people who run starships worth tens of millions - replacing an Air/Raft would wipe out most small merchant ships' profits for a considerable period.

MT had enclosed Air/Srafts at Cr389,000 and open ones at Cr275,000. At that price they're reasonable for a starship to carry, especially if second-hand, but they are TL15, so if they breakdown it's likely to be expensive.

In TNE there's considerable variation in price. A TL10 open Air/Raft using an MHD costs Cr118,401, an enclosed TL12 model Cr400,728. A TL12 para-military model with improved sensors, mount for weapons, and so on costs Cr508,332. The Regency's armed TL15 job costs ~MCr1.4 and has a fusion plant and 48 hours fuel for the HEPlaR. A TL15 civilian model, with fusion plant, is Cr504,450 and a militarized version is Cr751,090.

So, a cheap bare-bones version with an air-breathing engine, limited range, limited avionics, next to no sensors, and no cover unless you buy a tarp and make one yourself, is fairly affordable. More capability costs (lots) more.

 

[Carlobrand]

I have always pictured in the built-up areas there being designed air corridors that grav-vehicles would have to remain in. Just like road lanes but these could be stacked as well. I mean with the airspace being shared by vehicles and aircraft and space craft all vying for open space to fly, I imagine it would be very proscribed. I always pictured flying your grav-buggy anywhere you wished would be restricted to planets with little or no populated areas. The wide-open outback so to say.

I imagine they'd do something like this for low altitude flight, but there's still the issue of skill unless flight is automated. We're getting silly accidents now with just two dimensions.

For the price they are not ubiquitous at ANY TL

For the price described in certain sources, which seem to imply fusion power, which is by no means necessary. We can clearly make affordable grav vehicles in Striker and MT using batteries or non-fusion power sources. There's every reason to expect the first civilian grav vehicles will use the power sources most affordable and most familiar to the civilian market.

 

[Rupert]

My dislike of GRAV VEHICLES is simpler ... the Technology "opportunity cost" is too high for an early TL introduction: no SSTO, no Space Planes, no space elevator ... whatever you want to get to/from space, just import an Air\raft instead.

[PS: LBB5 places it at TL 7 for MD w/ Fusion PP Small Craft]

Air/Rafts are TL8 in LBB 3, along with GCarriers and Speeders. The only reason you'd use a helicopter or a hovercraft at that point is that they're cheaper, and I expect a helicopter's running costs would make an air-raft cheaper fairly quickly.

 

[Rupert]

I imagine they'd do something like this for low altitude flight, but there's still the issue of skill unless flight is automated. We're getting silly accidents now with just two dimensions.

For the price described in certain sources, which seem to imply fusion power, which is by no means necessary. We can clearly make affordable grav vehicles in Striker and MT using batteries or non-fusion power sources. There's every reason to expect the first civilian grav vehicles will use the power sources most affordable and most familiar to the civilian market.

LBB3 implies batteries, but also suggests an endurance that is far longer than you'd get from batteries under any of the design systems: "Range in time or distance on a world is effectively unlimited, requiring refuelling from a ship's power plant every ten weeks or so."

 

[Condottiere]

Well, there is a loophole to build a really cheap air/raft.

Since I don't think that Vehicles has been updated, it probably hasn't been removed.

 

[Spinward Flow]

Air/Raft at Cr600,000. That's a hefty price tag for something that's very simple and barebones, aside from the effectively unlimited duration and handy hover and VTOL capability.

In terms of single owner, that is a high price tag.
In terms of a ride hailing business (think: Uber Grav) you'll be able to earn back the purchase price in share revenues within a couple of years.

Once Transport as a Service becomes commonplace and ubiquitous, especially if "driving" is handled by computers and not by people, the whole situation inverts, such that you no longer need 1+ vehicles per person on world. Instead, it turns into 2+ persons per vehicle as the ratio ... and the higher that ratio of people the vehicles, the more "affordable" the Air/Rafts become in per capita terms due to increased usage via ride sharing of a public service.

 

[whartung]

whatever you want to get to/from space, just import an Air\raft instead.

M Drives suffer the same problem.

A 1G drive makes spacelift REALLY cheap.

Its like all of the hard stuff (things that you mentioned) are crammed in late TL-7/early TL-8, relying on fractional gains in technology until one of the major breakthroughs happen and wipes them all out.

 

[casquilho]

I imagine they'd do something like this for low altitude flight, but there's still the issue of skill unless flight is automated. We're getting silly accidents now with just two dimensions.

I do not disagree; I look at the mess that are the roads just on this planet today. I am sure there will be different things depending on the tech level and population of the planets.

 

[Dragoner]

IMTU I simply pushed them up the tech tree, anti-gravity exists, it is only now higher tech. Provides some more granularity between tech levels, and keeps other vehicles relevant. Sort of best of both worlds.

 

[atpollard]

IMTU I simply pushed them up the tech tree, anti-gravity exists, it is only now higher tech. Provides some more granularity between tech levels, and keeps other vehicles relevant. Sort of best of both worlds.

My solution of choice, too ... but very NOT OTU.