Originally posted by Aramis:
This fixation on "Every level of Stat making a difference in Tasks" is broken; disingenuous and not good for modeling purposes.
I've to to completely disagree with you there, Bill.
What are characteristics? They're the statistics that define a character.
Attributes define the character.
That's who he is (and, of course, how the gamer takes those stats and role plays the guy).
A character with a STR-2 is a weak character. He won't (shouldn't) be much good in a fist fight. A character with an INT-15 is a genius. He should be much, much better at figuring problems than anyone else. A character with a DEX-7 should have average, normal, human dexterity.
All of these statistics define who the character his--what his capabilities are. They are guides for how the character is role played.
And, they *should* influence everything he does (his task throws).
I'll give you an example.
I run with a group of guys every other day. I'm the one that needs to stop more often than any of the other three--although I wouldn't consider any of them to be extremely gifted in the endurance department.
If I were a Traveller character, I'd probably have END-5. The other guys in the group would probably be END-6, END-7, and the one of us who's running about 3 miles right now is probably an END-8.
I can't run 3 miles yet. I'm getting there, but I'm definitley the least "endurance gifted" of the four of us.
Here's the problem. We're all attempting the same task. The task the same difficulty for all of us--yet I'm not doing it better than any of the other three.
I've got a lower END. I can't make the task roll the way the others are.
Yet, under MT, we're all making the same roll.
Stats define a character's abilities. Please take my tone the way it is intended--I'm just discussing this, not trying to be a prick or start a word fight or anything like that. It's just when you say, "This fixation on "Every level of Stat making a difference in Tasks" is broken; disingenuous and not good for modeling purposes", you are absolutely, 100%, without-out-a-doubt wrong about that.
Attribute scores are there to limit a character's abilites when compared to other characters. The character is completely defined by them, and his task rolls should be goverened by his stats.
I'm sure you're familiar with WEG's D6 Star Wars game system. That's one of the best game systems I've ever seen published (I didn't tweak the thing!).
It's an incredible game system, and boy, did they get it "right".
Each stat in the game IS what you roll. Characters are complete defined by what their stats are. If you have a STR 3D, then you roll 3D on your STR throws. If you have DEX 4D, then you roll 4D on your DEX based rolls. (expertise in the way of skill could increase this base).
Beautiful game system. And the designers understood that a character is defined by his stats.
Classic Traveller, when it was designed, game design hadn't advanced to that level of sophistication yet. CT was somewhat copying the D&D method.
When I first started playing D&D, stats meant next to nothing. I mean, you got a bonus here, a bonus there...and you could figure out how much weight you could carry and things like that. But, the system was pretty much the way Classic Traveller is. Stats were used for very little.
Now, today, the d20 system has grown up. Check out D&D today. EACH STAT LEVEL provides a different benefit or penalty. The game is not like it was back in the day. Characters are not defined by their stats.
Classic Traveller (or, really, any edition of Traveller that I've seen) hasn't reached that level of sophistication in game design (yet).
Thus, a tweak was called for.
And, that's all I've been doing here.
Modernizing CT a bit.
Just like me changing the armor armor modifier to modify the damage throw instead of the to-hit throw.
It's all in an effort to raise the sophistication of a game I love so much.
Of course, finding the right balance is important; A max +1 is not enough, IMO, from stat, otherwise I'd not have switched to DM+Stat/3 (even though I use MT Diffs +1).
I can't say I'm on board with you on the Stat/3 business.
What you've done is given a guy with a lowly Stat-3 a bonus!
That doesn't make sense to me.
And, still, there is the distribution problem. Stat-3 gets a bonus over Stat-2, but Stat-4 doesn't get a bonus over Stat-3...and neither does Stat-5 get a bonus over Stat-4 or Stat-3.....YET, Stat-6 gets a bonus over Stat-5.
That distribution doesn't make sense to me at all--if it were me, I'd just stick with MT un-tweaked. At least, with MT unmodified, you're not giving a bonus to guys with Stat-3 and Stat-4 attributes.
I feel like I need to say this too: Don't read this as me attacking you. I'm not. We're just discussing mechanics here, that's all. I've already had my tone mis-read once in this thread, and I don't want you to think I'm being shitty with you. I'm not.
We're just to Traveller gamers discussing the fine points.
...A max +1 is not enough, IMO, from stat...
I'll give you this, though. I can see an argument for a +1 being "not enough". I can definitley see somebody arguing that.
(Which is yet another reasong that I'm going to use CTI in my game over UGM.)
But, what you're not considering, though, is the frequency of that +1.
It's not "just a +1DM", all the time, like what you have happenig in your game.
A character's stat influences the frequency in which the bonus is given, and to a large extent, the stat influences the difficulty category in which the bonus can be used.
Under UGM....
If you've got a Stat-5, then you're only going to get that stat bonus a third of the time (28%), and when you DO get it, it's only going to help you on Easy and Routine rolls.
Your lowly Stat-5 isn't going to provide a bonus to you if you need to be successful on a Difficult task....not unless you've got a pretty good skill level to help you as well.
On the other hand, if you've got a Stat-9, then you're going to get that bonus most of the time (83%). And, when it pops up those eight out of ten rolls, it will be easy to use it to help you succeed on that Difficult task.
So, you see, UGM is structured.
In your system, where you do the MT tweak of Stat/3, you're actually giving a bonus to a lowly Stat-3.
Under UGM, that Stat-3 character *could* get a bonus too....but if he does, it's only going to help him with Easy tasks...maybe a Routine task if he's got some skill.
If your Stat-3 guy rolls an Impossible task, he'll get his +1DM
Under UGM, Stat-3 will never get a bonus in attempting Impossible tasks.
Heck, a Stat-3 shouldn't get a bonus on an Impossible task.
So, UGM doesn't just provide a +1DM. The system also limits the difficulty category that the +1DM can be used on.
High stat characters benefit because they (1) get their +1 bonus more often, and (2) can use that bonus on attempts at higher difficulty categories.
Low stat characters, under UGM, are penalized in that they will rarely get the bonus, and when they do, they can only use it on very low difficulty categories.
If you look at it that way, the UGM Natural Ability roll is a pretty powerful little game mechanic rolled up into a simple, easily implemented part of the 2D task roll.
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