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[T. Foster]

I tend to look upon Virus simply as a plot device, no more and no less. Sure, from our understanding many (most?) things about it seem impossible, or at best extremely unlikely, but nonetheless for purposes of plot advancement we accept that -- contrary to our understanding and sense of logic -- it DID happen that way, and no amount of hand-wringing about its impossibility or unlikelihood is going to change that. Nor is it important. What matters is the story that grows in the aftermath of the Virus Era, and that's where we should turn our attention.

Yes, in a 'hard' SF setting that might make for some difficult swallowing, but IMO no moreso than Thruster Plates or the 2D starmap.

[This message has been edited by T. Foster (edited 18 September 2001).]

 

[T. Foster]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MJD:
BUT please disregard anmy references to wandering psionic knights. There are no Jedi.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

...and I suppose those aren't the droids we're looking for, either?

Anyway, there may well be no Jedi/psionic knights in Traveller's future ANY MORE, but unless he was intentionally yanking our collective chain (a distinct possibility) there are hints/evidence that had GDW stayed in business and the TNE line continued to develop as planned, we very well might have seen something a lot like that from Mr. Dave Nilsen.

 

[MJD]

Yeah, that seems likely. One reason for the tweaks here and there is simply that Dave's vision for where it would all go isn't where Marc (or I...) would want it to go.

 

[Ron]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MJD:
Yeah, that seems likely. One reason for the tweaks here and there is simply that Dave's vision for where it would all go isn't where Marc (or I...) would want it to go. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This sound interesting. Could you share with us yours and Marc's ideas regarding the TNE campaign?

I personally would like to see more about the future of the Regency and the aliens, such as the Zhodani and the Solomani. I don't care much about the Space Vikings or the Virus.

 

[MJD]

I could do that.

(Evil grin).

But not today.

 

[Gallowglass]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ron:
This sound interesting. Could you share with us yours and Marc's ideas regarding the TNE campaign?

I personally would like to see more about the future of the Regency and the aliens, such as the Zhodani and the Solomani. I don't care much about the Space Vikings or the Virus.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Or, even better, stop darn hinting and get FFE or someone (BITS?) to publish this sourcebook! *Grin* Seriously, I think the sourcebook would be a great idea, especially if as suggested it manages to both move the OTU forward and also allow individual ref's more discretion than the latter day GDW/TNE appeared to.

Whilst I never played in TNE, and I do have issues with much of the detail, I actually find knowing what is coming lends real gravitas to the CT era. I for one would very much like to see what comes after.

Are we talking here about a sweeping broad brush look at known space, or a more detailed focus on the Regency and / or RC areas? I think the latter is a better basic idea, but (it's my song again) there needs to be enough local colour and detail to enable people to easily run games.

 

[StrikerFan]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DED:
The way that it's written in "Survival Margin" is that all ships operating within Imperial borders were required to carry the
Imperial transponder chips, or else be percieved as hostile. Rather than carrying two sets of transponder systems (Imperial and
national) Aslan, Vargr, etc. just adopted the Imperial version.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unlikely, in and of itself, and even if it was done, it would only be done by those ships involved in such cross-border trade. Warships would not install such a transponder, nor would corsairs, nor traders that aren't involved in cross-border trade.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DED:
As for the idea non-Imperial states working together against the Imperium because of this requirement, it's not likely to happen. There's just no way that they're going to cooperate. The Solomani and Aslan don't get along that well. The K'kree hate anyone who isn't a vegetarian. The Vargr are so balkaninzed that they're more likely to fight amongst themselves trying to decide who should lead the charge.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didn't mention working together, this would be more like the carving up of the Ottoman Empire, or the attacks on the Roman Empire in it's last days: uncoordinated assaults that take advantage of a detected weakness. All of the Imperium's neighbors except the Zhodani and the Hivers have reasons to attack if the Imperium appears weak (the Vargr for loot, the K'kree to kill carnivores, the Solomani to regain their empire, the Aslan to avenge their ambassador and to gain land). These attacks would not be coordinated, but they wouldn't need to be. What's there to coordinate against? When their expansion lines encountered each other, there may well be more conflict (certainly when the Vargr encounter the K'kree, or the K'kree encounter the Aslan, less surely but likely when the Solomani encounter the Aslan).

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DED:
But they did, because they wanted to do business with the Imperium.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Those traders that crossed the borders might add such a transponder, yes. The ones that don't, won't waste the money when they have a transponder that works perfectly as it is. As others have said, it's a plot device, one that fails, utterly, the giggle test.

StrikerFan

 

[Antony]

I for one would like to know the fate of the Solomani Perseus Arm missions. Is it true that one of the returning ships is the Galactica.

Seriously the return of these vessels would make a significant difference to the Solomani Rim. Finding a devastated "Universe" would they have gone to Earth. The intereactions with the growing pocket empires in the Solomani Rim would be interesting.

As for the Empress Wave, could it not simply petre out. If not then surely somthing is pumping power into it?

 

[DED]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MJD:
How would you feel about a non-rules-specific TNE supplement that moved the timeline forward say 50 years?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm all for it. But then you probably already knew that.

------------------
\_/
DED

 

[NightrimTNE]

Well I think that if you're going to work on a supplement you should begin with what we already know.

The StarVikings (read RCES) leave with their pet viri and head off into the wild blue yonder (it's black technically) sometime soon after the defeat of the Viri in the black curtian.

The Kkree are somehow involved in what's going on behind the BC.

The puppeteers are coming out of the BC and sending newly infected ships into it.

The Empress Wave has made a mess of things in the Zho Cons, but no one is sure why and oddly enough that doesn't seem to be the case in the Vargr extents. That we're aware of.

Avery has headed coreward with a fleet of viral ships in search of the source of the EW, presumably this is where the Vikings go as well. After all they can't very well head through Kkree space, Solomani Space, Aslan Space or through the Regency. Really only leaves one direction to head with their viral friends.

In a matter of a few years the EW, and what ever it does will quickly pinch off the route through corridor so deciding what it is and what it does to people is rather essential.

 

[Ulf]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by StrikerFan:
Those traders that crossed the borders might add such a transponder, yes. The ones that don't, won't waste the money when they have a transponder that works perfectly as it is. As others have said, it's a plot device, one that fails, utterly, the giggle test.

StrikerFan<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I never thought of Virus as being restricted to one single way of infection (TNE rulebook states quite often that Virus is only slowed a bit while stepping the border to other technological traditions), IMTU Virus is even capable of living on fiber systems. After all it's a life form and not some kind of code, and quite open to quick adoption and mutation. The way i see it the transponders and related interfaces are only used to put a foot in the door, which could be established on quite a lot of different ways for something as tech savvy as a silicon based life form.

Even todays latest (eg Nimda) hand crafted computer virii (just some code running on extremely poor computer hardware, compared to a 1.5 ton TL14 monster) are capable of multiple ways of infection, and also use these to first install a back door that is used for intensive infection. Even the adoption is here in a way, macrovirusses (for MS Word not the ones from Voyager) have been reported to be automatically imported and translated into newer versions of Word that use a different programming language, creating a new virus.

And we are _not_ yet a SciFi universe with HePLAR/Thruster Plates and star drives, nor have we invented the 2D starmap.

 

[StrikerFan]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ulf:
I never thought of Virus as being restricted to one single way of infection (TNE rulebook states quite often that Virus is only slowed a bit while stepping the border to other technological traditions), IMTU Virus is even capable of living on fiber systems. After all it's a life form and not some kind of code, and quite open to quick adoption and mutation. The way i see it the transponders and related interfaces are only used to put a foot in the door, which could be established on quite a lot of different ways for something as tech savvy as a silicon based life form.

Even todays latest (eg Nimda) hand crafted computer virii (just some code running on extremely poor computer hardware, compared to a 1.5 ton TL14 monster) are capable of multiple ways of infection, and also use these to first install a back door that is used for intensive infection. Even the adoption is here in a way, macrovirusses (for MS Word not the ones from Voyager) have been reported to be automatically imported and translated into newer versions of Word that use a different programming language, creating a new virus.

And we are _not_ yet a SciFi universe with HePLAR/Thruster Plates and star drives, nor have we invented the 2D starmap.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A virus, computer or otherwise, must be brought into contact with whatever it is they're going to infect. See C.J. Cherryh's _Chanur's Legacy_ for an example of how to avoid this: the ship in that book has a completely separate computer system that talks to station-side, and the computer is dumped and reloaded from backup when they leave station. Even if that computer WAS infected by a virus, it wouldn't affect the main computer, because it has no contact with the main computer. They're not networked, they're not physically connected. Just as a sealed-box, tamper-proofed transponder would be: connected to the ship only by power connections.

As I said, Virus is a plot device, nothing more. To get the results the authors wanted, it was given capabilities that are, at best, exceedingly unlikely. If the plot device works for you, great. It certainly never did for me.

StrikerFan

 

[rtartis]

My understanding of Virus is that it's a living organism based on silicon that is able to transmit it's self through some kind of radio/Electromagnetic communication. It is able to 'consume' other silicon life forms or wrote itself onto virgin silicon 'chips'.
A "tame" version of this LIFEFORM was used in Imperial transponders as the lifeform was extremely long lived and stable from mutations. I quess the Imperial version was a "Castrated" version unable to reproduce.

 

[rancke]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by StrikerFan:
A virus, computer or otherwise, must be brought into contact with whatever it is they're going to infect. See C.J. Cherryh's _Chanur's Legacy_ for an example of how to avoid this: the ship in that book has a completely separate computer system that talks to station-side, and the computer is dumped and reloaded from backup when they leave station. Even if that computer WAS infected by a virus, it wouldn't affect the main computer, because it has no contact with the main computer. They're not networked, they're not physically connected. Just as a sealed-box, tamper-proofed transponder would be: connected to the ship only by power connections.

StrikerFan<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I always saw Virus as a disembodied psionic entity (that needed a host body). Since psionics is the magic of the Traveller universe, any ability it had was ok with me as long as it was self-consistent and not too destructive of role-playing potential.

The notion that the Imperium's neighbors would tamely accpt a demand that they install black boxes supplied by the Imperium in their ships, OTOH, really offended my sense of plausibility. I don't care what the incentive, no government would accept such a demand. The Imperium would be faced with a counter-demand barring any ship carrying an Imperial transponder from entering Solomani, Zhodani, Julian, Hiver, and K'Kree space. Trade is a two-way street and the imperium would soon be under tremendous pressure from its own mega-corporations to drop the demand.

All IMO, of course.


Hans

 

[StrikerFan]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rancke:
The notion that the Imperium's neighbors would tamely accpt a demand that they install black boxes supplied by the Imperium in their ships, OTOH, really offended my sense of plausibility. I don't care what the incentive, no government would accept such a demand. The Imperium would be faced with a counter-demand barring any ship carrying an Imperial transponder from entering Solomani, Zhodani, Julian, Hiver, and K'Kree space. Trade is a two-way street and the imperium would soon be under tremendous pressure from its own mega-corporations to drop the demand.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Quite. Now, the Imperium COULD demand that any civilian ship calling on it's worlds have a transponder that responded to communications in a certain manner, or that continually broadcast signal Y on channel X. But that's a far different thing than demanding that ALL ships use that transponder. The first is something that the Imperium is in a position to enforce, even if doing so in any manner other than charging an additional tariff on a trader breaking the law is likely to be MUCH more trouble than it's worth. The second is totally unenforceable and would be laughed at by the other empires.

StrikerFan

 

[MT++]

I would like to know background!

The so-called Dark Hivers, and what of the Aslan and K'Kree.
I want to know the final fate of the Solomani, Lucan and Margaret

Specific details aren't needed, just give me a rough idea but...

I want it on paper. I get a headache after working on a computer 8 hours at work

 

[AllenS]

Shortly after GDW suspended operations I had a brief e-mail exchange between myself and Dave Nilsen in which I asked him about some of the details of what might have been. I still have a copy of his reply, copied onto a text file. I am loathe to merely post it here, since I don't have permission to do so, but if Martin wants to send me an addy to send it to, I'll be glad to share; might give a little more insight into what they were planning. Not that I think you should slavishly follow these ideas; I look forward to seeing what you are planning to do, but it might prove interesting or helpful to you.

My addy is Allensh@yahoo.com.

Allen

 

[AndreaV]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MJD:
BUT please disregard anmy references to wandering psionic knights. There are no Jedi.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And these are not the droids you're looking for...

(yes I know its several months latter, but this just *so* obvious).

But it seems someone beat me to it

[This message has been edited by Andrewmv (edited 25 November 2001).]

 

[Solo]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MJD:
How would you feel about a non-rules-specific TNE supplement that moved the timeline forward say 50 years?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Quick Note- I bought, read and dumped the TNE and MT rules a long time ago. My memory on exactly what was happening and later developed in the sourcebooks is foggy at best. Please forgive any glaring errors or gaps in knowledge below!

How about more than 50 years. 100? 200? or more. Would give room for a true 4th Imperium to form if that's where your going with this.

Also, could substantialy update technology used in the Imperium if you so desired (result of the virus? Virus Tech?)

Virus - New Major Alien race behind the whole thing? A new race created by the Virus?

Sherm.

 

[kafka47]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Solo:


Virus - New Major Alien race behind the whole thing? A new race created by the Virus?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So long it does not become a clone of Vampire Fleets or 101 Robots with sentient robots. Let us truly see something different. For me there is an illustration in FF&S1 that says it all. So perhaps there will be a new Major Race (or more accurately a new Master Race) with humanity serving as a new Slave Race.