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[Solo]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kafka47:
So long it does not become a clone of Vampire Fleets or 101 Robots with sentient robots. Let us truly see something different. For me there is an illustration in FF&S1 that says it all. So perhaps there will be a new Major Race (or more accurately a new Master Race) with humanity serving as a new Slave Race.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now that's interesting! The galaxy several hundred years in the future. Major races conquered by an invading Master Race who has set up its own empire in our galaxy. Perhaps other races have smaller pocket empires. Rebels battling a alien/biological/mechanical enemy. Hmmm. Could be good. Has it been done anywhere else as an RPG?

Sherm.

 

[GypsyComet]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Solo:
Now that's interesting! The galaxy several hundred years in the future. Major races conquered by an invading Master Race who has set up its own empire in our galaxy. Perhaps other races have smaller pocket empires. Rebels battling a alien/biological/mechanical enemy. Hmmm. Could be good. Has it been done anywhere else as an RPG?

Sherm.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yup. It's called The Mechanoids, by Palladium.

 

[Solo]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GypsyComet:
Yup. It's called The Mechanoids, by Palladium.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well hell, that's reason enough to do it again!
(Palladium. uggh! )

Sherm.

 

[MJD]

There is no plan for a great conquest of this sort in the 1248 backgound. It'd be too much of an overpowering force, channeling games in a way that the Rebellion did. The 1248 setting is far more open...

 

[simontmn]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Elliot:
Warning - Rant ahead.....

(2) TNE was too damn militaristic - two of my players were Royal Marines and even they didn't like the barracks room jingoism of the RCES. They much preferred the freelancer feel of CT or MT.
(3)the published adventures (which unlike MT were actually quite plentiful, even if they were just T2000 scenarios transposed to Traveller)were just too deterministic.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's hard not to have moral qualms with a setting predicated on "You kill people and steal their technology - and this is A GOOD THING."

I'm using the 'Smash & Grab' scenarios in my own universe right now, but in my game the power the PCs serve - the Auran Syndicate - is not supposed to be this whiter-than-white, unquestionably good entity like TNE's Reformation Coalition. The Syndicate is a ruthless corporate state, the setting is much darker - and even then I'm wondering how the PCs will react to that Droyne-Virus computer you mention - I'm planning to run that scenario next.

 

[kafka47]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Solo:
Well hell, that's reason enough to do it again!
(Palladium. uggh! )

Sherm.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As I said my original inspiration was the FF&S illustration where there is a human chained to cybernetic interface harnessing his teleport ability.

The secret would be to make the curtain slowly expanding. However, some force keeping it in check. And, pleeeease not let it be the RC friendly virus called Snake or something like that...

The curtain ought to be presented as the final menace that maybe cannot be overcome rather it is destined to overcome the sentients of Charted Space.
/
/
/
/
Although, it would kinda be fun to have daleks emerge from the curtain...heh, heh, heh.

 

[Antony]

It is obvious, behind the black curtain are a race of cybernetically modified humans with virus chip implants. These are called Cybermen (Daleks had trouble invading anyplace with stairs)

Or could this be the home of the Cylons?

 

[aramis]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Antony:
It is obvious, behind the black curtain are a race of cybernetically modified humans with virus chip implants. These are called Cybermen (Daleks had trouble invading anyplace with stairs)

Or could this be the home of the Cylons?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The only way i'll buy a TNE supplement is if it does away with virus, or makes virus a purely psionic artifact. (Anything less than Pure F*****g Magic fails the reality check for what it does).

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-aramis
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Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!

 

[kafka47]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aramis:
The only way i'll buy a TNE supplement is if it does away with virus, or makes virus a purely psionic artifact. (Anything less than Pure F*****g Magic fails the reality check for what it does).

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How do cybernetic organisms then fit into your model? (NB: I was joking about the Daleks.) And, would making psionic not make more like Magic rather than techno-logical?

 

[aramis]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kafka47:
How do cybernetic organisms then fit into your model? (NB: I was joking about the Daleks.) And, would making psionic not make more like Magic rather than techno-logical?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Psionics = magic of the mind. The two terms are, for almost all intents, synonyms.

The point being, virus, as written, is physically impossible, unless the OTU has some very different physics. So, unless it is magical in nature (able to impress itself psionically) it is not able to propigate the way it did in the TNE TU. In short, data mode transmissions don't get executed, so virus must have some way of forcing code-mode reception. Additionally, encasulation in small devices is as bogus as anything I've seen in any RPG in print.

Now, a virus with machine telepathy can force other computers to accept the data and execute it. It can force its way into other compuers. It might even be able to leave a trigger in a hand scanner... But I still dislike the virus.

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-aramis
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Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!

 

[William]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aramis:
Psionics = magic of the mind. The two terms are, for almost all intents, synonyms.

The point being, virus, as written, is physically impossible,
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

IMTU this was always how it was. The only way that Virus makes any sense at all is if the originonal species from Cymbeline was psionic. _Most_ in the TU didn't realise this due to the fact that the suppressions also suppressed knowledge of what it is and how it works. Hence, no one realized that putting a psi-helmet on thier computer would make it safe...

Also makes handling virus easier as a gm - just use your fav system's psi rules.

William


[This message has been edited by William (edited 04 January 2002).]

 

[aramis]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kafka47:
How do cybernetic organisms then fit into your model? (NB: I was joking about the Daleks.) And, would making psionic not make more like Magic rather than techno-logical?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

(actually replying to the question now...

)

Magic is a part of traveller, just it is called psionics.

Cybernetic organisms, could, in theory, have domination type abilities. If the tech side has the domination, it could make "Flesh-puppets" out of victims^h^h^h^h^h^h^h biologicals.

IMTU, Virus never happens. The hard times brings about the Short Night (1160-1300) as the safes generally stabilize and expand again, with the Dulinoric Imperiumm (Lucan's and Dulinor's) under the "One True Throne", and the Real Stephon throwing his support in due to a Psionic Compulsion, dating to about 1135 or so. Pocket Empires abound. The RC could arise, for different reasons. Massive die offs, and depopulations, due to tech interuptions.

The Core expeditions were turned back by the Sparklers.

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-aramis
=============================================
Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!

 

[kafka47]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aramis:
(actually replying to the question now...

)

Magic is a part of traveller, just it is called psionics.

Cybernetic organisms, could, in theory, have domination type abilities. If the tech side has the domination, it could make "Flesh-puppets" out of victims^h^h^h^h^h^h^h biologicals.

IMTU, Virus never happens. The hard times brings about the Short Night (1160-1300) as the safes generally stabilize and expand again, with the Dulinoric Imperiumm (Lucan's and Dulinor's) under the "One True Throne", and the Real Stephon throwing his support in due to a Psionic Compulsion, dating to about 1135 or so. Pocket Empires abound. The RC could arise, for different reasons. Massive die offs, and depopulations, due to tech interuptions.

The Core expeditions were turned back by the Sparklers.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks, it all begins to make sense now. I had never really given much thought the virus as a psionic. As I had always assumed the Imperium flirted with the idea of organic cores for their computers so that machine intelligence was always a possibility. Just computers self-writing their own code, I see too often, as SF extrapolating from current trends.

 

[Elliot]

Sparklers!

Were they in the tearful editorial of MTJ 3?

Remind me, I have forgotten

 

[aramis]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Elliot:
Sparklers!

Were they in the tearful editorial of MTJ 3?

Remind me, I have forgotten<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

MTJ4. Nilsen obviously didn't do his research...

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-aramis
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Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!

 

[Virus]

Excellent! After being absent for a few months I come back here and find there´ll be a D20 Traveller *and* a new TNE sourcebook. Way to go, MJD!

As for the further developement of the TNE timeline, I rather like Kafka´s `War of the Roses´ idea. IMTU, I found a different approach, though. I stuck with Virus, but after a few years, its importance decreases rapidly due to the self-destructive nature of the Doomsday strains. Shortly before the collapse, IRIS (Imperial Regency for Intelligence and Security, IIRC) "kidnaps" a highly modern battle fleet off Lucan´s Navy, withdraws into the Solomani Rim and sets up a secret base in order to rebuild the Imperium according to their directives (i.e. protect the imperium, protect the rightfull emperor etc.; can´t remember it in detail right now). Mainly due to their paranoid security measures, they survive the collapse with their base and fleet mostly intact and start building a pocket empire. They successfully hunt down most Virus fleets in their vicinity and make contact with the RC, who is then currently occupied with a war against the Soleeans. The RC and the IRIS successor state unite (with a few other pocket empires)and together, they manage to reinstate the beginnings of a fourth Imperium.
I realise this view is a bit personal, but since everybody´s throwing ideas around, I thought I might join in .

Virus



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"It´s just a REALLY BIG meson gun, ma´am."
(RCES Engineer to RCES Captain upon fumbling an instruction roll, trying to explain the intricacies of a deep site)

 

[mshensley]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MJD:
Yeah, that seems likely. One reason for the tweaks here and there is simply that Dave's vision for where it would all go isn't where Marc (or I...) would want it to go. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


My main question is if Marc Miller doesn't agree with what happened in TNE, then why doesn't he just repeal the whole thing? Its his baby. Whatever he says is canon is canon.

All he would have to say is that TNE represented an alternate Traveller universe, just like the Gurps one is. Then come out with a sourcebook that tells us how the rebellion really ends.

Also, is 50 years in the future enough? It seems like too much damage was done to fix any appreciable amount in just 50 years. It should be more like a couple of hundred years in the future.

 

[aramis]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mshensley:

My main question is if Marc Miller doesn't agree with what happened in TNE, then why doesn't he just repeal the whole thing? Its his baby. Whatever he says is canon is canon.

All he would have to say is that TNE represented an alternate Traveller universe, just like the Gurps one is. Then come out with a sourcebook that tells us how the rebellion really ends.

Also, is 50 years in the future enough? It seems like too much damage was done to fix any appreciable amount in just 50 years. It should be more like a couple of hundred years in the future.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Marc has addressed that in the past, on the XML and on the TML...

basically, it boils down to:
1) TNE was too popular to "Erase" from canon, most especially to the gearheads; gearheadism and canonista-ism tend to go hand-in-hand. I tend towards gearheadism, and am a part-time canonista.
2) Marc would like to erase MT and the rebellion, as they were even less under his guidance than TNE; TNE was at least done in-house (at GDW) while MT was essentially a DGP product under GDW label.
3) Marc likes the "Rebuilding amidst the ashes" theme (M0 is just TNE sans Virus).

esentially, 1 & 2 would chop a major part of the fan base, and so it is far safer to leave them in-place. Then again, for every traveller-gamer-person I've met who likes GT, I've met two who don't, same for TNE, and for MT. It's more like 1:10 for T4...

And, even then, to many, Traveller is a set of rules, to others it is the setting canon, devoid of rules (hence CORPS-Traveller, EABA-Traveller, FUDGE-Traveller, HeroTraveller, WOD-Traveller, AD&D-Traveller), and to other still, a mixture. I've done StarTrek using MT, and The very-late 3I (M1100) setting under CT, MT, TNE, T4, GURPS, T:2300, SpaceMaster, and even Chaosium's BRP; I sat in on a session of a Traveller Campaign using the StarFrontiers game engine, and helped someone else prep an Alternity Traveller camapign. I've done M1000 under many of the above, plus T20 and EABA.

Some elements that say "Traveller" to me are the 3I, the travel rules, the Bk2 and Bk7 trade and commerce rules. Everything else about any given traveller ruleset can be mimicked under many other systems.

TNE is, to me, as traveller as 2300AD: IE, not very, but similar in many ways. Rule wise, CT and MT are it for me, save for T4 psionics. T20 has some promise, but I'll be using bits and pieces in CT/MT games...

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-aramis
=============================================
Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!

 

[mshensley]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aramis:
Marc has addressed that in the past, on the XML and on the TML...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, I know what the TML is. What is the XML? I assume you're not talking about the extended markup language.

 

[Elliot]

I don't see why TNE can't be jettisoned as Traveller canon and downgraded to 'what if . . .'. TNE doesn't even correspond to what was suggested as the future in Hard Times (which also stated that many ships in the bad lands turn off their transponders!)

I wasn't aware that MWM opposed the Rebellion, I thought it was his idea (shows how out of touch I am!)