• Welcome to the new COTI server. We've moved the Citizens to a new server. Please let us know in the COTI Website issue forum if you find any problems.
  • We, the systems administration staff, apologize for this unexpected outage of the boards. We have resolved the root cause of the problem and there should be no further disruptions.

Too many wedge shaped scout ships.

Cylinder.

I use a lot of Cylinders for several reasons.

One, cylinders can handle a lot of pressure from the outside (look at submarine designs).
Two, cylinders are the basic shape of all aircraft (not counting helicopters).
Third, cylinders could be made through extrusion. Basically a refinery (steel factory) in space could easily make square or round basic hulls by pushing the hot material out of a die. (This is one of the ways that my Megacorp mining operations handle bulk ore; premade into cargo container size and module size with approriate connection points attached from the cutting/mold process)
Those are the main reasons.

Dave Chase
 
And let us not forget the really groovy tri-hulled, vertical-swing-winged design David R. Deitrick whipped up for the Droyne in their CT Alien Module.

(Hey, Yaskodray! Pimp my starship, yo?)

IMTU, I prefer lifting bodies to the traditional Keith Brothers doorstops, but then most of the tech IMTU leans towards manga and anime for its styling, as an aesthetic choice.

Ah, but the two "pontoons" didn't serve much function other than, well... as "pontoons". Still, the Droyne scout is a neat looking variant on the basic classic Traveller starship.
 
BG,

Brook West has some excellent scout designs I'm sure you'll find very interesting. You can find his page here and be sure to check out his other designs too.

Walt Smith has a 100dTon jump pod design which I happen to find fascinating. Again, check out the rest of Walt's page for other goodies.

Wedges and darts are very easy to draw and, when you remember that drawing programs are fairly recent and most Traveller players had to make do with graph paper and rulers, it's rather understandable that most deckplans were made up of "easier" shapes.


Regards,
Bill
 
In MTU, any ship that might be expected to carry out any atmospheric maneuvers other than a simple landing on or take off from planetry surfaces has to be either a wedge/needle or a conical design (in MT terms, if it is classified as airframe). Reasonably, scouts and fighters and possibly some non-jump combat types like SDBs would be expected to operate in these conditions. Most mercantile types are out for profit, and not combat/scout orientated. The cost effective approach for them is flattened sphere so the vast majority of ships are flattened sphere, at least those expected to land dirtside.
 
Hi

Here's some quick sketches for a LBB 2 version of a Scout/Courier I put together based on a small merchant ship design that I had posted about earlier.

The Lower deck has part of the machinery aft, with sensors forward, and alot of fule in the middle. It has landing gear in its short stubby wings, as well as forward in the middle of the sensor bay.

ScoutLwr.jpg


The Upper deck has the rest of the machinery aft, the cargo bay and air/raft just forward of that, four staterooms and a small galley/commons, and a small laundry, plus an airlock, and then the bridge forward. In the bridge there are several equipment racks, a small locker, a computer server room, and a small head, plus two crew seats.

ScoutUpr.jpg


Here is a quick image of the ship (its actually from the merchant ship version, but it gives an idea of what the ship looks like).

Traveler.jpg


Here is a link for the merchant ship version converted to the Mongoose rules for reference.

Anyway, just thought I'd post these to share.

Regards

PF
 
Ah, but the two "pontoons" didn't serve much function other than, well... as "pontoons". Still, the Droyne scout is a neat looking variant on the basic classic Traveller starship.

True. A 'catamaran hull' on the other hand may be a cobbled-together design made up of a couple of Cutters "duct-taped" together, or of a Cutter and a 50t fuel tank, for instance.
 
Here's some quick sketches for a LBB 2 version of a Scout/Courier I put together based on a small merchant ship design that I had posted about earlier.

The Lower deck has part of the machinery aft, with sensors forward, and alot of fule in the middle. It has landing gear in its short stubby wings, as well as forward in the middle of the sensor bay.

ScoutLwr.jpg


The Upper deck has the rest of the machinery aft, the cargo bay and air/raft just forward of that, four staterooms and a small galley/commons, and a small laundry, plus an airlock, and then the bridge forward. In the bridge there are several equipment racks, a small locker, a computer server room, and a small head, plus two crew seats.

ScoutUpr.jpg


Here is a quick image of the ship (its actually from the merchant ship version, but it gives an idea of what the ship looks like).

Traveler.jpg


Here is a link for the merchant ship version converted to the Mongoose rules for reference.

Anyway, just thought I'd post these to share.

Regards

PF
Huh. Looks a little cartoony.
 
Cylinder.
I use a lot of Cylinders for several reasons.
...

Sausage ships :) I can see them coming off the production line in a big string.

I like the perversity of the catameran design too. If you have to take a space walk every time you need the loo, it really helps remind you you're in a hostile environment. :D
 
Hi

PF,

And I know I'm not the only one who is grateful you did share them!

Thank you, thank you, thank you!


Regards,
Bill

You're very welcome.


Huh. Looks a little cartoony.

Hi,

I guess it does look maybe a little cartoony, but as someone on another board had pointed out, it does maybe have a little bit of a family resemblence to the Fat Trader.

Here is a Body plan and a view view of the hull that might help give a little better view of the vesse'ls shape.

BPlan.jpg


M100a.jpg


Regards

PF
 
Last edited:
Come on, man, no offense meant here, but it looks like something PIXAR would create for a CGI cartoon. Even the Guppy and Il Transports in the real world have a function. Traveller is supposed to be about hypothesized realism.
 
PF: I think, for me, it's just too "dirigible-like"... the wings too small, the body too wide.

Then again, IMC(!3i)TU, the scout is an extruded octagon, 9x6x28.5m. The Patrol cutter is 9x12x63m
 
PF: I think, for me, it's just too "dirigible-like"... the wings too small, the body too wide.

I have to respectfully disagree.
It looks to me like a baby type R. The exterior could use more texture to represent plates and access hatches, but I like the basic form and proportions. It looks 'streamlined' but not an 'airframe'.

The wings remind me of the NASA lifting body experimental craft - closer to the rear wings and tail used for stability and control rather than aircraft-like lifting wings. I have more trouble with large wings on spacecraft. Why don't they tear off on hypersonic re-entry? Starships do not generally 'cruise' for hours in the atmosphere, so why expend so much effort on wings that are only used for the last few minutes of a many hour (or multi-day) trip?
 
Cylinder.

I use a lot of Cylinders for several reasons.

Most of the ships IMTU are cylinders with hemispherical ends. Contragrav so no TL-7 wings and what not. Double hulled with fuel tankage between. VERY structurally strong design and, streamlined. Simple to produce for shipyards.

While the Scout wedge design looks "neat", it is not something that would have really been chosen IRL.
 
Hi,

I hope I'm not getting too off track from the original intent of the thread.

To Blue Ghost (& Aramis), no offense taken, I appreciate the feedback. I realize that everyone has different ideas of how they view what things might look like. The deck plans that I recently posted are mods to something I actually started putting togeher a couple years ago (I think). If I am recalling correctly, at the time I wanted to try and see if I could make a ship close to the correct volume, and then lay out its internal deck plans close to what the rules call for.

In general, I think that I came up with a hull that is within 4-5% of my 100dton target. In laying out the deck plans though, I've assumed two 1.5 x 1.5 m deck squares, with a deck height of 3m, as being equal to 1dton, which gives me a small margin on laying out spaces.

In doing the original deck plans and hullform I started with a notional design that Robject posted on the public T5 board as an example of a ship designed to the then current draft T5 rules. I thought the vessel, which he called a Pocket Trader, was an interesting idea, so I used his draft specs, to draw a ship around. However, since the original vessel was drawn up using a draft version of unpublished rules, I later I converted my drawings over to the Mongoose Traveller, so that others could use them if they wanted.

The current sketches that I posted were just a quick alteration to match the original LBB2 rules for a Scout/courier as an example of a non-wedge shaped design.

My initial thoughts on the hull was to try and maybe do something like NASA's X-24A lifting body test craft from the 1960's, which appears to have an almost elliptical cross-section, with a flattened bottom.

X24.jpg


X-24A_3-view.jpg


As I began to mess around with the hull and possible internal arrangments though, I began to realize that for a merchant ship, the planform and profile view taper of a vessel like the X-24A wasn't that efficient for internal layout. As such, I tried to keep the flattened elliptical cross section but ended up stretching out the hull, adding a parallel midbdy, with a tapered nose and blunt aft end.

In the end I noticed that the nose was a bit more blunt than I had originally intended but since the volumes and deck layout appear to work OK, I decided to leave it as is.

As atpollard noted, the stubby wings and tail (plus the flap at the aft end) are all kind of meant to provide stability when operating in the atmosphere, while the stub wings also house the aft landing gear, and the vertical tail can house some of the machinery and/or fire control arrays for if/when a turret is fitted.

I've also been going back and forth on whether I should add side windows, as initially I thought that in jump space they wouldn't have any use, but then I realized that while maneuvering and/or orbiting they might be a nice addition.

Overall, I realize that it might not be a design that everyone likes but to me I kind of like it and it kind of reminds me a little like maybe a VW bus in space.

Vw_bus_t1_v_sst.jpg


Regards

PF
 
Last edited:
My initial thoughts on the hull was to try and maybe do something like NASA's X-24A lifting body test craft from the 1960's...


PF,

That was my first thought. It looked too much like that (in)famous crashing spaceplane from the Six Million Dollar Man title scene for it to be a coincidence.

I also very like the suggestions that the vessel resembles a "baby" Type R and/or is part of the Type R "family". I've always thought there should be not-so-vague design or hull "families" in the OTU with "fat" and/or "stretched" versions of the Type A, Type A2, Type T, and so on. Your nifty "Guppy Scout" fits my musings very nicely!

Anyway, I like the design for several reasons and thank you again for sharing it with us.


Regards,
Bill
 
Back
Top