How is the IISS organised in the Spinward Marches?

[Spinward Flow]

Mora was (and always has been) the "Gateway to the Marches" and was historically the (preferred) main route from neighboring Deneb Sector into the Spinward Marches sector. Later on, additional routes would be added, but Mora is THE main, major and primary point of entry into the sector from Trailing. Small wonder then that Mora/Mora would be a main hub of IISS bureaucracy for the Spinward Marches.

 

[BackworldTraveller]

That assumes that there is a sector-wide Scout infrastructure. Politically, Mora was the Only Duchy when the marches were opened. But they have split into multiple other Duchies - Did the Scout Service split at the same rate?
Do Districts have local HQs or do they rely on the nearest subsector HQ?
Do the various branches have different structures within the Spinward Marches?
Does the Exploration Branch actually have any representation in some of the core sectors with no imperial border?

Book6 suggests that there should be the possibility of moving between Scout(Any), Agent(Intel) and Noble(Administrator) without ever leaving the IISS. You could also (arguably) be a Merchant(Broker), Agent(Law Enforcement) or Scholar(Any) and still be in the IISS.

 

[TamsinP]

Given that some subsectors are currently, or were previously, named "District xxx-xxx" it's quite possible that the IISS names the subsector organisation as "District".

How the different branches and offices are organised within the Spinward Marches (or any other sector come to that) is unknown. I'd expect most, if not all, offices to have some degree of representation at every level (Sector, District, Base/Waystation); Waystations and Bases on the X-Boat routes would have a much higher representation from the Communications Office and Maintenance Branch on the X-Boat routes than systems away from it. In subsectors/sectors away from borders there would probably be minimal/zero presence of the Exploration Office and External Mapping Branch, but on the borders they will have a stronger presence.

Those are just my thoughts. The main thing is that there isn't much if anything in the published canon.

I'm assuming the last part of your reply is about translating the Classic-based expanded Scouts to MgT2e for career paths. If that's correct, Citizen (Corporate) may be a better fit than Noble (Administrator) as qualification is an EDU roll rather than SOC.

 

[Spinward Flow]

Does the Exploration Branch actually have any representation in some of the core sectors with no imperial border?

Depends on what "exploration" means to you, I guess.

If it means Astra/Terra Incognita then the Core sectors with no imperial borders are "all mapped" and thus there is no frontier to be had there.

Conversely, if it means "we got a report about something we didn't know about, go check it out" then absolutely yes there is a purpose for the Exploration Branch inside of long settled territory.

Think of it like this.
A Geological Survey will MAP an area (terrain, resources, etc.), but if you actually want to GO GET something from that place, you need an Explorer expedition to go and do it. Could be a rare botanical species or a rock/ice/water sample ... or that peculiar chest sitting next to a tree in the forest.

Need to go spelunking for something? Get an Explorer.
Need to map someplace? Get a Surveyor.

Flying overhead with a LIDAR drone? That's surveying.
Wading through the bush (even if already mapped), hoping to find something? That's exploring.

It's basically the difference between "taking sensor readings" (survey) versus actually going out and "fetching stuff" (exploration) to bring back.
Hands off/big picture vs hands on/up close and personal (so to speak).

Under such a broader and more expansive understanding of what it means to be an Explorer ... you bet your sweet bippy there's still exploration work to be done in the core sectors of settle space!

 

[kilemall]

To expand on the above, it’s the difference between making your orbital passes and deploying survey sats over Just Another Rock IV and really digging in.

Could be a new unobtanium mineral is discovered or learned how to use and rocks need to be resurveyed.

I would also expect resurveys for navigation hazards. Could even be a bureaucratic tussle between the navy and scouts as to who gets budget for that sort of work.

 

[GypsyComet]

To expand on the above, it’s the difference between making your orbital passes and deploying survey sats over Just Another Rock IV and really digging in.

Could be a new unobtanium mineral is discovered or learned how to use and rocks need to be resurveyed.

I would also expect resurveys for navigation hazards. Could even be a bureaucratic tussle between the navy and scouts as to who gets budget for that sort of work.

Yes, but internal (and some external) resurvey is the responsibility of the third branch, appropriately named Survey. Without digging into the GT book or other sources, I'd suspect that Exploration and Survey share a lot of office space, with the mission ratio and ships available dependent on location.

 

[Condottiere]

There are probably different ways of handling exploration and survey, depending on whether the system is basically within the Imperium, along the borders, or over them, whether the area is claimed, in contention or unclaimed.

Over the border, the Scouts probably do use old cruisers decommissioned from the Imperium Navy, and are more security conscious.

Along the border, the Scout vessels are probably armed and larger.

 

[mike wightman]

Agent of the Imperium - purpose built long range scout cruiser confirmed.

 

[GypsyComet]

Given things like District 268, I would take the leap that Subsectors are numbered by the scouts prior to acquiring a proper name.

The District process has been hinted at a few times, and seems to be applied only to subsectors the Imperium plans to annex. IIRC another of the Marches subsectors has had its former District number mentioned.

Having your colonial backwater region be given a District number is an Event.

 

[Spinward Flow]

another of the Marches subsectors has had its former District number mentioned.

District 267 became the Five Sisters subsector.

 

[GypsyComet]

District 267 became the Five Sisters subsector.

Probably the one I was thinking of, yes.
I have a vague recollection of Glisten's District number also coming up at some point, but in much later materials. It would be disappointing if it were 269, as that strongly implies they were just assigning them sequentially in Subsector letter order.

It looks like Rob defined the former District numbers for Deneb Sector.

 

[TamsinP]

Probably the one I was thinking of, yes.
I have a vague recollection of Glisten's District number also coming up at some point, but in much later materials. It would be disappointing if it were 269, as that strongly implies they were just assigning them sequentially in Subsector letter order.

It looks like Rob defined the former District numbers for Deneb Sector.

I've definitely seen reference to District numbers for subsectors in Deneb in the integrated timeline.

As for sequential numbering, I wouldn't be too surprised if that was the case - someone in an IISS office somewhere gets given the chart of a sector that's due for survey (and colonisation), overlays the 16-subsector grid and assigns district numbers "260, 261, 262, 263..."

 

[whulorigan]

IIRC another of the Marches subsectors has had its former District number mentioned.

The Five Sisters was originally District 267.

EDIT: I see Spinward Flow beat me to it.

 

[whulorigan]

I have a vague recollection of Glisten's District number also coming up at some point, but in much later materials. It would be disappointing if it were 269, as that strongly implies they were just assigning them sequentially in Subsector letter order.

Even if they were, it could simply mean that the entire Rimward area came under Imperial interest at about the same time, but that Glisten and/or Trin's Veil as a matter of local circumstances became ready for integration prior to Subsectors M and N.

 

[Spinward Flow]

EDIT: I see Spinward Flow beat me to it.

We make every pretense of competency around here ...

Even if they were, it could simply mean that the entire Rimward area came under Imperial interest at about the same time, but that Glisten and/or Trin's Veil as a matter of local circumstances became ready for integration prior to Subsectors M and N.

The Traveller Adventure, p15

So if we take these maps as being historically useful ...

IY 300: Regina, Lunion, Mora and Trin's Veil subsectors had Imperial governance. The Spinward Main through Lanth subsector and the Collace+Glisten Arms of the Spinward Main were settled areas but external to the Imperial border.

IY 400: Jewell cluster, Glisten cluster, part of Aramis subsector, most of Rhylanor subsector and the remainder of Trin's Veil subsectors are annexed as Imperial territory.

IY500: Jewell subsector and a lot of Glisten subsector have been annexed ... but Vilis and Lanth (across the abyss) are not yet a part of Imperial territory. The Five Sisters and District 268 remain beyond the Imperial border.

 

[BackworldTraveller]

The differences between 500 (Above) and 589 (Mongoose V1 Zhodani p67) are interesting. Also the routes shown include systems bypassed in the settlement rush. But that is bye-the-bye.

The other thing that is interesting is seeing how short-lived some of the border counties were.

Regarding the Scout Service, the maps don't particularly enlighten other than to suggest where parts of the service's administration may be found

 

[Spinward Flow]

Also the routes shown include systems bypassed in the settlement rush. But that is bye-the-bye.

Actually, it's pretty obvious that the "major links and branches" routes are rather obviously running along the Spinward Main meaning J1 trade routes.

Another interesting thing to note here is that Mora/Mora actually IS the J1 "Gateway to the Marches" since all of the other routes into the sector from the trailing Deneb sector and is the "closest" J1/2 routing entry point into the Spinward Main from Vincennes two subsectors to trailing.

The other thing that is interesting is seeing how short-lived some of the border counties were.

That's the fun thing about settlement expansion.
Some settlements will succeed ... while others fail.
Boom and Bust.

Beyond that, there's the "cherry picking" factor involved in which locations will get settled quickly and grow quickly towards self(ish)-sufficiency and become capable of "anchoring" further expansion and waves of settlement and securing the frontier. However, it's obvious (from the vantage point of 1105+) that not all of these routes along the Spinward Main were unequally successful/profitable.

You see the J1 route extending along the "trailing J1 wall" of the Lanth subsector up towards Regina/Regina ... but by 1105 almost all of those worlds are economic backwaters and some of them are even repeat failures as settlements, despite having been a "major route" out towards Regina, a prime settlement hub.

 

[Kobeck]

Hello all, this is a bit of a tangent but relevant to topic - probably

DEALING WITH THE CONCEPT OF EMPIRES by Marc Miller was an essay published in Judges Guild back in the day.

I dont even know which of them it was printed in as Guide to Judges Guild did not specify.

I would quite enjoy reading this essay if anyone has it. My search of the interwebs just loops back to FFE's Guide to Judges Guild


Any help would be appreciated.


FWIW I have half a dozen of so JG/Dungoneer issues but none have the essay.

 

[Badenov]

So, I apologize if I'm duplicating another response, but I didn't see anything directly stating this. Given the Age-of-Sail communication level of the Imperium, indeed of the galaxy, minus a few high-TL enclaves, Where a message takes weeks to get across the sector even for a fast courrier and 41 jumps, give or take, to get from Glisten to Capital. That's 9 months if you have a ready relay of someone prepared to jump out as soon as the incoming ship jumps in and electronically transmits a message. With 7 days per jump and 2 days to refuel per jump, it's over a year.

So, rather than the sort of cenralized, or slightly distributed chains of command discussed here, I think things would be much more like Age of Sail command structures were historically, with an Imperial planetary authority having basically the full authority of the Emporer, perhaps minus the use of nukes. This would include the authority to use/direct scouts, at least for a large list of standard scout tasks, though the Navy, at least, might be answerable to a subsector Duke, and strange tasks for scouts might go to the subsector level also. Even a subsector can be 2-3 jumps, so for anything truly urgent, the system person in authority would be expected to issue orders, whether senior Navy or Scout officer, or if there is an Imperial noble.

Yes, that's tremendous authority at a much more junior level than we're used to in modern times with modern communications. Back in the day, things often worked this way, with the exception that there was generally no non-Imperial local authority, and the governor or local leader was generally a royal appointee with authority over military forces. And that really made two otherwise similar places like night and day because of different attitudes of rulers.

 

[Kakistocrat]

[…] rather than the sort of centralized, or slightly distributed chains of command discussed here, I think things would be much more like Age of Sail command structures were historically, with an Imperial planetary authority having basically the full authority of the Emperor, perhaps minus the use of nukes. This would include the authority to use/direct scouts, at least for a large list of standard scout tasks, though the Navy, at least, might be answerable to a subsector Duke, and strange tasks for scouts might go to the subsector level also. Even a subsector can be 2–3 jumps, so for anything truly urgent, the system person in authority would be expected to issue orders, whether senior Navy or Scout officer, or if there is an Imperial noble.

Yes, that’s tremendous authority at a much more junior level than we’re used to in modern times with modern communications. Back in the day, things often worked this way, with the exception that there was generally no non-Imperial local authority, and the governor or local leader was generally a royal appointee with authority over military forces. And that really made two otherwise similar places like night and day because of different attitudes of rulers.

The viceroyalties of the Spanish empire might be a model to consider.