Traveller 5 - With an update can it eclipse CT?

[atpollard]

Never played Space Opera (so I have no idea).

Just FYI:
Wikipedia has a pretty good description.
I mostly remember a wall of really small text ... and it had Light Sabers!

[I actually have a copy of it in a box in my closet ... right next to the Car Wars original boxed sets ... and all pretty well worn.]

 

[pennshome723]

As written, no it cannot.

It has no vehicle design rules, so, as written, it can't do consistent vehicle-based games. So it won't do Car Wars.

As written, no spacecraft design, either, so it can't do the 3I.

As written, no dwarves and elves, either, so can't do LOTR with it.

There is a HUGE difference between "I can house-rule the ▊▊▊▊ out of this to do anything" and "as written, it supports"...

I guess your right it was not designed to be a space based game, but then it all depends on the creative ability of it's GM to come up with a system if that is so needed for the game. Now that isn't to hard to do, and there are other space based elements that one can use to make it spaced based.

For example one could play a Gamma World based game but use Star Gates like the StarGate universe to pop around from world to world. Now in mine as I said I borrowed from Dr Who and used the Tansmat Beam transporter to go from the Earth, Moon and Mars.

For me the point isn't to limit possibilities, but to open them up and expand the scope of the Fun factor. As I have said everyone has their own style of GMing and feelings on all sorts of matters. Your truth, does not need to be my truth. Now one is right and no one is wrong. The point of it all is to have fun with ones friends!:rofl:

 

[HG_B]

Just FYI:
Wikipedia has a pretty good description.
I mostly remember a wall of really small text ... and it had Light Sabers!

[I actually have a copy of it in a box in my closet ... right next to the Car Wars original boxed sets ... and all pretty well worn.]

Thanks. Sounds interesting. I'll have to hunt down a copy.

 

[aramis]

Thanks. Sounds interesting. I'll have to hunt down a copy.

$10 PDF on DTRPG...

$20 in dead treee from FGU.

 

[HG_B]

$10 PDF on DTRPG...

$20 in dead treee from FGU.

Thanks for info aramis!

 

[aramis]

Thanks for info aramis!

It's much more (Trek/Star Wars)-ish in tone than is Traveller.

 

[HG_B]

It's much more (Trek/Star Wars)-ish in tone than is Traveller.

Okay, I can probably skim some gadget & vehicle ideas from it. For $10 it'll be worth a look see.

 

[aramis]

Okay, I can probably skim some gadget & vehicle ideas from it. For $10 it'll be worth a look see.

It did almost everything else right, but the character complexity left it in the "I can't find players" range for me.

Much like I expect T5 will be. Most would rather play something simpler... and hence why T5 is unlikely to come anywhere close to the "lightning strike" of CT success. There's no empty niche to fill, and a market that is so divided by matters of taste that T5 is unlikely to come close to CT's numbers.

 

[CodexofRome]

I believe there is a good game lurking within the T5 rulebook, but it needs a team of developers to fix the flaws, cleanup the errata and reorganize the layout. Obviously, some of this work is already being done and the effort can be seen in various threads on this forum. The size of the task is daunting. But, it can be done.

 

[HG_B]

It did almost everything else right, but the character complexity left it in the "I can't find players" range for me.

Much like I expect T5 will be. Most would rather play something simpler... and hence why T5 is unlikely to come anywhere close to the "lightning strike" of CT success. There's no empty niche to fill, and a market that is so divided by matters of taste that T5 is unlikely to come close to CT's numbers.

I gathered that there were char gen probs from a review I read. Yeah, learning curve is a point of friction for adoption. We probably both came out of the war game side & have have a bit higher tolerance. Most player today don't. I REALLY wanted T5 to be a magnet for new players. Oh well, <sigh>...

 

[aramis]

I gathered that there were char gen probs from a review I read. Yeah, learning curve is a point of friction for adoption. We probably both came out of the war game side & have have a bit higher tolerance. Most player today don't. I REALLY wanted T5 to be a magnet for new players. Oh well, <sigh>...

I no longer have much tolerance for needless complexity. And yes, I did wargame prior to playing RPG's.

But even barring the complexity, and the poor editing... T5 couldn't become the "main game" the way CT did because the Market is just too diverse.

 

[Original_Carl]

I REALLY wanted T5 to be a magnet for new players. Oh well, <sigh>...

Me too. However, I'm lucky in that I've been talking up Traveller to my friends for a while, I've run a Beta game (successful!) and now they're starting to request a T5 game.

I think what any RPG needs to succeed in the market today is promotion. There's nothing better than word of mouth. My strategy is to run demo games for friends and fellow geeks at my home and my Friendly Local Game Store. If I can demonstrate that T5 is fun (SPOILER: it is!) and playable (see previous spoiler) people will want to play it. Besides, I think that the Ref and the Players are about 80% of what makes a successful and fun game. The rules are just a platform for that.

When I bought my Little Black Books in the Little Black Box way-on back when (1980-ish) I had no clue what I was doing or how to do it. I spent years making characters, spaceships and subsectors with no real idea of how to play until one day in my sophomore year of high school I was reading Characters and Combat for the hundredth time and Lo! And behold! The light bulb came on and I "got it"

CT had a steep learning curve for a kid. I'm a lot older now. I've played a lot more games. CT wouldn't be much of an obstacle for me now. Similarly, T5 doesn't present much of an obstacle for me now. The big difference is the T5 has a lot more (and in my mind better) tools for the Referee than the LBBs in the LBB.

I understand some of the hurt feelings about T5, but a lot of the negativity I'm seeing here and on G+ seems to be coming from a couple of people who are seriously pissed off because T5 failed to live up to their expectations, and they seem determined to keep beating that horse until everyone joins in along with them. One guy on G+ won't be happy until Marc Miller personally apologizes to him and every Traveller player/ref ever for the "debacle" that he considers T5 to be. I'm of the opinion that even if Marc did that, he still wouldn't be happy.

T5s success is going to come down to people like me who run games. If you want to see T5 succeed, start running games and invite your friends.

 

[Baltech Budapest]

Me too. However, I'm lucky in that I've been talking up Traveller to my friends for a while, I've run a Beta game (successful!) and now they're starting to request a T5 game.

I think what any RPG needs to succeed in the market today is promotion. There's nothing better than word of mouth. My strategy is to run demo games for friends and fellow geeks at my home and my Friendly Local Game Store. If I can demonstrate that T5 is fun (SPOILER: it is!) and playable (see previous spoiler) people will want to play it. Besides, I think that the Ref and the Players are about 80% of what makes a successful and fun game. The rules are just a platform for that.

When I bought my Little Black Books in the Little Black Box way-on back when (1980-ish) I had no clue what I was doing or how to do it. I spent years making characters, spaceships and subsectors with no real idea of how to play until one day in my sophomore year of high school I was reading Characters and Combat for the hundredth time and Lo! And behold! The light bulb came on and I "got it"

CT had a steep learning curve for a kid. I'm a lot older now. I've played a lot more games. CT wouldn't be much of an obstacle for me now. Similarly, T5 doesn't present much of an obstacle for me now. The big difference is the T5 has a lot more (and in my mind better) tools for the Referee than the LBBs in the LBB.

I understand some of the hurt feelings about T5, but a lot of the negativity I'm seeing here and on G+ seems to be coming from a couple of people who are seriously pissed off because T5 failed to live up to their expectations, and they seem determined to keep beating that horse until everyone joins in along with them. One guy on G+ won't be happy until Marc Miller personally apologizes to him and every Traveller player/ref ever for the "debacle" that he considers T5 to be. I'm of the opinion that even if Marc did that, he still wouldn't be happy.

T5s success is going to come down to people like me who run games. If you want to see T5 succeed, start running games and invite your friends.

I applaud this. I couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks

 

[SpaceBadger]

I REALLY wanted T5 to be a magnet for new players. Oh well, <sigh>...

For T5 to be a magnet for new players, it really needed to be smaller, simpler, and cheaper.

Even the outer cover of the book seems designed to appeal to existing Traveller fans rather than to new players. I'm not a marketer, so I don't know what would be better to grab newbies, but that big black book is kinda daunting, even without a look at the price tag.

I suspect the greatest number of T5 users will be those who swipe the cool bits to use w whatever Traveller version they are already playing - and as someone else noted, those "cool bits" will be different for different groups.

 

[HG_B]

I no longer have much tolerance for needless complexity. And yes, I did wargame prior to playing RPG's.

But even barring the complexity, and the poor editing... T5 couldn't become the "main game" the way CT did because the Market is just too diverse.

True. The market is vastly different now.

 

[SpaceBadger]

I no longer have much tolerance for needless complexity.

Heh heh. The last few Traveller adventures that I ran for my boys, we used Fudge for all skills, combat, and task resolution. Can't get a whole lot simpler than that, except maybe Sherpa.

I actually want a bit more structure than Fudge, which is why the next time we play some Traveller we'll be using mostly CT w some house rules.

 

[Murdoc]

For T5 to be a magnet for new players, it really needed to be smaller, simpler, and cheaper.

But to do that would risk taking out many of the options that are for me anyway a big part of the appeal of the game. As I said in my previous post, the main thing about T5 is all the neat things you can do with it. There's always a trade-off between options and size. Given that, I still think breaking it into three core books like CT/MT would have been a good idea for a number of reasons, including marketing.

Even the outer cover of the book seems designed to appeal to existing Traveller fans rather than to new players.

Mongoose seemed to do alright with that cover. Other than that though, I'll agree that the inside could be prettier, given what some of the modern games look like.

Overall though there is more to marketing than the product itself. Good word-of-mouth is a part of that. There are other things that could have been and could still be done.

 

[rancke]

For T5 to be a magnet for new players, it really needed to be smaller, simpler, and cheaper.

It needs a T5 Basic. I've already suggested an introductory campaign, but I don't think that alone would do it. You also need a 'Lite' rules-set. Simplified rules, no makers, most everything you need to start provided as samples. Maybe not even a character generation system, or at least only a stripped-down version. BUT everything compatible with the full set of rules! That might do it. Referees buy the cheap 'Lite' version, start playing, become eager to expand and buy the Big Book; players buy the Players' Handbook and start rolling up doctors and diplomats and nobles (Oh My!); lions and lambs gambol in the meado... oops, sorry... got carried away there.


Hans

 

[cuTTer]

I believe there is a good game lurking within the T5 rulebook, but it needs a team of developers to fix the flaws, cleanup the errata and reorganize the layout. Obviously, some of this work is already being done and the effort can be seen in various threads on this forum. The size of the task is daunting. But, it can be done.

Apparently the RPG 'industry' has such a thing as freelance editors, scroll down a little on the link below for a list of eight (nine if you include the author herself of course).

http://www.ayvalentine.com/

Who knew?

Ms. Valentine is hosting the Ennies this year btw, I only stumbled upon her because a former Traveller of my acquaintance has been nominated.

http://www.ennie-awards.com/blog/

 

[aramis]

Apparently the RPG 'industry' has such a thing as freelance editors, scroll down a little on the link below for a list of eight (nine if you include the author herself of course).

http://www.ayvalentine.com/

Who knew?

Ms. Valentine is hosting the Ennies this year btw, I only stumbled upon her because a former Traveller of my acquaintance has been nominated.

http://www.ennie-awards.com/blog/

Thor Olavsrud and Luke Crane both have also done freelance work. In one case, jointly.