Vector Movement Made Simple

[Supplement Four]

The ship-to-ship hail squaks, incoming from the SDB.

"You bastard! I know what you're doing! So, it's a race you want then, eh? OK, it's a race you'll get!"

ON THE BRIDGE OF THE SDB: "Helmsman. Angle a course towards the supply vessel, but keep us out of firing range of that warship. I want to skim just outside weapon's range and beat the warship to the supply vessel. Alert me if the warship changes course."

--------------------------

So, that's my move. Begin to alter vector, top speed, in a direct line as possible at the supply ship, mindful to keep a few pixels out of the warship's weapon range.

I also want to account for warship movement later in the round. I don't want to be so close to the warship's weapon range that the warship can bring me in at long range, moving after I move. So, the distance outside of range needs to account for the warship's possible change of vector.

I imagine this "saftey zone" will have to be wide on early rounds, but as the WS picks up speed, it will be harder and harder for the ship to angle towards me (if I'm reading your system correctly), and therefore my SDB's saftey zone can be "thinner", giving me a straighter line to the supply ship.

The SDB will open up on the SS as soon as that vessel gets into range.

That's my course, every turn, unless the WS changes vector. If it does, I may have alter course.

As long as the WS doesn't change from it's beeline to the SS, you can play out a couple of turns on the movement graph if you like. If the SDB gets into range with the SS, stop then and let me re-evaluate.

Stop if the WS changes course.

Stop if I've miscalculated somewhere and the WS surprises me with a shot.

Otherwise, play as many rounds as needed given my instructions to the SDB above.

 

[Supplement Four]

Actually...if the WS doesn't alter vector (including its acceleration but not direction), stop at half way to the SS. I may want to hit the brakes a little.

 

[Supplement Four]

Actually...if the WS doesn't alter vector (including its acceleration but not direction), stop at half way to the SS. I may want to hit the brakes a little.

 

[GypsyComet]

All of this and no one recalls that Mayday is hex-based vector, Power Projection is gridless vector, and MKP's Galactic Knights is also hex-vector? Two of the three are already Traveller products.

Gridless vector becomes pretty trivial once a table and miniatures or counters get involved, since a ruler tells you how far from your "future" marker your engines can actually deliver you. Hex-based systems are similar, but without the ruler, and hexes have fewer "odd corners" than S4's square grid seems to.

 

[GypsyComet]

All of this and no one recalls that Mayday is hex-based vector, Power Projection is gridless vector, and MKP's Galactic Knights is also hex-vector? Two of the three are already Traveller products.

Gridless vector becomes pretty trivial once a table and miniatures or counters get involved, since a ruler tells you how far from your "future" marker your engines can actually deliver you. Hex-based systems are similar, but without the ruler, and hexes have fewer "odd corners" than S4's square grid seems to.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by GypsyComet:
Two of the three are already Traveller products.

I was thinking Flykiller's system felt like Mayday or Starter Traveller space combat, but I wanted to see how it played out.

Hex-based systems are similar, but without the ruler, and hexes have fewer "odd corners" than S4's square grid seems to.

I know you're used to me posting rules and such, but just to be clear, these aren't my rules. They're Flykiller's.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by GypsyComet:
Two of the three are already Traveller products.

I was thinking Flykiller's system felt like Mayday or Starter Traveller space combat, but I wanted to see how it played out.

Hex-based systems are similar, but without the ruler, and hexes have fewer "odd corners" than S4's square grid seems to.

I know you're used to me posting rules and such, but just to be clear, these aren't my rules. They're Flykiller's.

 

[flykiller]

All of this and no one recalls that Mayday is hex-based vector, Power Projection is gridless vector, and MKP's Galactic Knights is also hex-vector?

don' know nuthin' about 'em. tell me how they work. I was under the impression that mayday is not vector at all, and is power projection able to display a game space 20LS by 30LS?

updated the graphic to show the new moves, you should be able to see their developing vector trail now. as you can see the warship has added some +y (down) vector while lessening its +x (right) vector. meanwhile the sdb is clearing its -x (left) vector and laying on some +y (down) vector to try and swing around the warship. 'least I assume this is what you want. the supply ship continues to slowly inch towards the warship.

 

[flykiller]

All of this and no one recalls that Mayday is hex-based vector, Power Projection is gridless vector, and MKP's Galactic Knights is also hex-vector?

don' know nuthin' about 'em. tell me how they work. I was under the impression that mayday is not vector at all, and is power projection able to display a game space 20LS by 30LS?

updated the graphic to show the new moves, you should be able to see their developing vector trail now. as you can see the warship has added some +y (down) vector while lessening its +x (right) vector. meanwhile the sdb is clearing its -x (left) vector and laying on some +y (down) vector to try and swing around the warship. 'least I assume this is what you want. the supply ship continues to slowly inch towards the warship.

 

[Supplement Four]

Keep it going. I want to bee-line for the Supply Ship in as straight as line as possible without becoming a target for the warship.

 

[Supplement Four]

Keep it going. I want to bee-line for the Supply Ship in as straight as line as possible without becoming a target for the warship.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by flykiller:
don' know nuthin' about 'em. tell me how they work.

Mayday is vector based. Much like what you're doing here.

I, personally, use the Range Band version of Starter Traveller, but I use it on a grid or a hex board, as discussed at the beginning of this thread.

In the simplest terms, a ship can accelerate an amount equal to its M-Drive rating each turn.

So, if my SDB accelerated 6, then 6, then 6, it'd be covering 6 hexes per turn on Round 1, 12 hexes per turn on Round 2, and 18 hexes per turn on Round 3.

The "hexes" are Range Bands equal to 10,000 km units. The time for a round is 1000 seconds.

So, in 3000 seconds, the SDB will have moved 36 Range Bands, or 360,000 km (1.2 LS).

(It would cover 60,000 km on turn 1. It'd cross another 120,000 km on turn 2, for a total of 180,000 km. And, on turn 3, it'd cover 180,000 km, plus the 180,000 km covered in round 1 & 2, for a total of 360,000 km.)

The "vectored" part is easily handled. Just find your future position as if you did not alter accelertion, and then alter it by an amount up to your M-Drive rating.

So, if the SDB wants to bank N or S on the map (assuming it's traveling from W to E), then the future position of the SDB would be 36 hexes out in front (directly E) of the ship. The ship's drive can alter course by 6 hexes in any direction. Move the future position of the ship N by 6 hexes, and draw a new line from the ship's current position. That shows how far N the ship can bank during the round given its present acceleration.

Here's antoher example: If the SDB wanted to slow its cours E, then it would flip around, slap on its drives, slowing the vessel. Due to velocity, though the ship would sill travel 30 hexes E during that turn (because it can only be slowed by 6 hexes in a round).

If I understand your system, it's very close to what I've described here and to how Mayday is played.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by flykiller:
don' know nuthin' about 'em. tell me how they work.

Mayday is vector based. Much like what you're doing here.

I, personally, use the Range Band version of Starter Traveller, but I use it on a grid or a hex board, as discussed at the beginning of this thread.

In the simplest terms, a ship can accelerate an amount equal to its M-Drive rating each turn.

So, if my SDB accelerated 6, then 6, then 6, it'd be covering 6 hexes per turn on Round 1, 12 hexes per turn on Round 2, and 18 hexes per turn on Round 3.

The "hexes" are Range Bands equal to 10,000 km units. The time for a round is 1000 seconds.

So, in 3000 seconds, the SDB will have moved 36 Range Bands, or 360,000 km (1.2 LS).

(It would cover 60,000 km on turn 1. It'd cross another 120,000 km on turn 2, for a total of 180,000 km. And, on turn 3, it'd cover 180,000 km, plus the 180,000 km covered in round 1 & 2, for a total of 360,000 km.)

The "vectored" part is easily handled. Just find your future position as if you did not alter accelertion, and then alter it by an amount up to your M-Drive rating.

So, if the SDB wants to bank N or S on the map (assuming it's traveling from W to E), then the future position of the SDB would be 36 hexes out in front (directly E) of the ship. The ship's drive can alter course by 6 hexes in any direction. Move the future position of the ship N by 6 hexes, and draw a new line from the ship's current position. That shows how far N the ship can bank during the round given its present acceleration.

Here's antoher example: If the SDB wanted to slow its cours E, then it would flip around, slap on its drives, slowing the vessel. Due to velocity, though the ship would sill travel 30 hexes E during that turn (because it can only be slowed by 6 hexes in a round).

If I understand your system, it's very close to what I've described here and to how Mayday is played.

 

[flykiller]

 

[flykiller]

 

[flykiller]

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">SDB - agility 6, weapons range 3LS, hits 4
WARSHIP - agility 4, weapons range 3LS, hits 10
SUPPLY SHIP - agility 1, hits 2


SDB WARSHIP SUPPLY SHIP
turn x y xv yv xd yd wars supp x y xv yv xd yd sdb supp x y xv yv xd yd sdb wars
---- ----------------------------------- ----------------------------------- -----------------------------------
001 120 300 000 000 -04 04 4.0 20.0 240 300 000 000 04 00 4.0 16.0 720 300 000 000 -01 00 20.0 16.0
002 118 302 -004 004 05 03 4.1 20.1 242 300 004 000 02 03 4.1 15.9 720 300 -001 000 -01 00 20.1 15.9
003 116 307 001 007 05 03 4.4 20.1 247 301 006 003 02 03 4.4 15.7 719 300 -002 000 -01 00 20.1 15.7
004 119 315 006 010 05 03 4.5 19.9 254 305 008 006 02 03 4.5 15.4 717 300 -003 000 -01 00 19.9 15.4
005 127 326 011 013 05 03 4.6 19.6 263 312 010 009 02 03 4.6 15.0 714 300 -004 000 -01 00 19.6 15.0
006 140 340 016 016 05 03 4.5 19.0 274 322 012 012 02 03 4.5 14.6 710 300 -005 000 -01 00 19.0 14.6
007 158 357 021 019 05 03 4.4 18.3 287 335 014 015 02 03 4.4 14.0 705 300 -006 000 -01 00 18.3 14.0
008 181 377 026 022 -- -- 4.1 17.5 302 351 016 018 -- -- 4.1 13.3 699 300 -007 000 -- -- 17.5 13.3</pre>[/QUOTE](the bulletin board edit function has trouble with long posts, so I'm breaking this up into two separate posts. the above listings reflect the movements on the above graphic.)

 

[flykiller]

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">SDB - agility 6, weapons range 3LS, hits 4
WARSHIP - agility 4, weapons range 3LS, hits 10
SUPPLY SHIP - agility 1, hits 2


SDB WARSHIP SUPPLY SHIP
turn x y xv yv xd yd wars supp x y xv yv xd yd sdb supp x y xv yv xd yd sdb wars
---- ----------------------------------- ----------------------------------- -----------------------------------
001 120 300 000 000 -04 04 4.0 20.0 240 300 000 000 04 00 4.0 16.0 720 300 000 000 -01 00 20.0 16.0
002 118 302 -004 004 05 03 4.1 20.1 242 300 004 000 02 03 4.1 15.9 720 300 -001 000 -01 00 20.1 15.9
003 116 307 001 007 05 03 4.4 20.1 247 301 006 003 02 03 4.4 15.7 719 300 -002 000 -01 00 20.1 15.7
004 119 315 006 010 05 03 4.5 19.9 254 305 008 006 02 03 4.5 15.4 717 300 -003 000 -01 00 19.9 15.4
005 127 326 011 013 05 03 4.6 19.6 263 312 010 009 02 03 4.6 15.0 714 300 -004 000 -01 00 19.6 15.0
006 140 340 016 016 05 03 4.5 19.0 274 322 012 012 02 03 4.5 14.6 710 300 -005 000 -01 00 19.0 14.6
007 158 357 021 019 05 03 4.4 18.3 287 335 014 015 02 03 4.4 14.0 705 300 -006 000 -01 00 18.3 14.0
008 181 377 026 022 -- -- 4.1 17.5 302 351 016 018 -- -- 4.1 13.3 699 300 -007 000 -- -- 17.5 13.3</pre>[/QUOTE](the bulletin board edit function has trouble with long posts, so I'm breaking this up into two separate posts. the above listings reflect the movements on the above graphic.)

 

[Supplement Four]

Next turn: Draw a line between my current position and my last position. I want to stay on that vector, at full 6G thrust, without "banking" around the WS. I want to go in a straight line connecting my current position, my last position, and my future postion.

Let's see that plot.

 

[Supplement Four]

Next turn: Draw a line between my current position and my last position. I want to stay on that vector, at full 6G thrust, without "banking" around the WS. I want to go in a straight line connecting my current position, my last position, and my future postion.

Let's see that plot.

 

[flykiller]

I've simply continued the ships' choices of acceleration, their positions are now as listed for turn 008. as you can see the distance between the sdb and the warship is dropping rapidly, so a new course is up to you.

Much like what you're doing here.

well vector movement is vector movement and I wouldn't expect ways of doing it to be very different, but it seems to me the major problem is one of scale. using pixel movement on a bitmap 1) allows ready visualization of a very large gamespace at a glance, 2) easy gaming over the net, as seen here, and 3) double-blind gaming over the net, allowing sensor rules to play a more realistic role in the game process.