vilani language

[Maladominus]

Originally posted by Liam Devlin:
drekh-low Vilani epithet for inedible filth,

coined from the Vargr daergh-inedible filth, and or meat/ excrement.

Here is a proposal:

The Vilani do not have only ONE word for 'inedible filth'. They have over FIFTY words for it.

Are you guys forgetting Vilani physiology and Vland? Vland is a planet where almost NOTHING was edible to the ancient Vilani. All the plants and animals were very incompatible with the Vilani biology. Hence just about everything is friggin damn inedible! The result? A Vilani caste arises, the Shugilii, whom are responsible for processing inedible things into digestible foods for society. They become an important role in Vilani society.

Ahh.... what's that they say about the Eskimo and snowflakes?

 

[parmasson]

Kaashaishem
1. To wait with respect while your superiors are served first.
2. Frequently in reference to precedence when people are seated at a table.
See also: deference

He waited with true kaashaishem before his lord.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Maladominus:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Liam Devlin:
drekh-low Vilani epithet for inedible filth,

coined from the Vargr daergh-inedible filth, and or meat/ excrement.

Here is a proposal:

The Vilani do not have only ONE word for 'inedible filth'. They have over FIFTY words for it.

Are you guys forgetting Vilani physiology and Vland? Vland is a planet where almost NOTHING was edible to the ancient Vilani. All the plants and animals were very incompatible with the Vilani biology. Hence just about everything is friggin damn inedible! The result? A Vilani caste arises, the Shugilii, whom are responsible for processing inedible things into digestible foods for society. They become an important role in Vilani society.

Ahh.... what's that they say about the Eskimo and snowflakes? </font>[/QUOTE]Ah, well to be more precise it's the Inuit and snow. Though depending how you count "words" snowflake could be one. It's a bit of an urban myth that the Inuit have hundreds of words for "snow". The fact is they probably have a dozen or two which would be a better number for your Vilani "inedible" words to number.

Some of the exaggeration comes from the counting. Would you count "ice" as an English word for "snow"? Yet an Inuit word for "snow that has melted and frozen" (i.e. ice) might be counted as another word for "snow". Same with snowflake, snowball, snowshelter, etc... You see where I'm going here yes?

Same would apply to the Vilani. They probably would have several types of "inedible" words for the excellent reason you noted. And the Solomani when first encountering this during the Rule of Man may very likely have come to the same counting error and exaggeration of hundreds of words for "inedible".

Anyway, I still like the idea, good one Maladominus.

 

[robject]

Originally posted by Kurega Gikur:
Kaashaishem
1. To wait with respect while your superiors are served first.
2. Frequently in reference to precedence when people are seated at a table.
See also: deference

He waited with true kaashaishem before his lord.

First off, you've got a good, pureblood Vilani name, Mr. Gikur. Kurega is quite rare -- I suspect it's a Vilanicization of an Anglic name. But your last name is reasonably frequent.

Second, thank you, thank you, thank you all for contributing new words. This BBS is the perfect place for new input and discussion, and every new word makes the language a little more useful. There are still plenty of holes to be filled.

I'd probably suggest Kaashaashem or Kaashashem for the spelling.

 

[robject]

To everyone contributing words, I'd suggest running the latest version of the Vilani random phrase generator, which is an updated and corrected version of Rob Day's original classic. You can provide it with a starting sequence and ask it to 'find' words beginning with that sequence, which is a decent way of ensuring the word's "correctness".

If the generator can't generate the first two syllables of a word in 100,000 iterations, the word may need some tweaking. This helps me be lazy.

Beware. There are several Vilani word generators out there, and I know some of them don't follow the language tables very well.

 

[robject]

Regarding inedible. How about different words that explain the different types of inedibility? For example, all of these are intransitive verbs:

/Ligduges/ inedible (incompatible proteins)
/Ukhergam/ inedible (metabolic poison)
/Unakbes/ inedible (emetic)
/Iigiinaadukiluun/ inedible (hyperallergenic)
...


Vilani random phrase generator

 

[parmasson]

First off, you've got a good, pureblood Vilani name, Mr. Gikur. Kurega is quite rare -- I suspect it's a Vilanicization of an Anglic name. But your last name is reasonably frequent.

My first name is a family name passed down through the generations. My father had a . . . well . . .Terran ancestor, we don’t talk about it much so I would appreciate it if you didn’t spread it around.

aggasame = inedible because it is still alive.

 

[parmasson]

Shuiinagmuu
noun
The traditional food preparer’s jacket.
Design and style vary depending on the school, specialty and rank of the Shugilii.

Khuiinagmuu
noun
A traditional food server’s jacket typically similar to the Shugilii
Jacket but less ornate and of a lower rank.

Shu-/Khu- (food preparer/server)
-iinag- (jacket)
-mmu (traditional and honored object)

Stop me if is all wrong or not helpful, I will not be offended.
Languages were never my strong point. I just like to fiddle with it.

 

[robject]

(The food server is, apparently, Medake, although there's no reason why the title of a food server can't be Khugilii...)

Those nouns can be archaic contractions. For example, the first can be a contraction of Shugilii + iinag. An honorific would be attached by the speaker if it is warranted in the situation (usually -sin or -nin); hence:

Shuniinagsin
and
Khuniinagsin

Perhaps, then, you've postulated the existence of a class of people called Khugilii... I wonder what they do? Are they bakers? Butchers? Seasoners? Or simply understudies -- a rank under Shugilii? (That would be pretty cool; now we have the beginnings of a ranking system for a Shugilii career...). Any idea what the other ranks are? We could use about six, I think.

How about:

O1 Medinere 'student'
O2 Sekilure 'proven one'
O3 Sekimnede 'reliable one'
O4 Khugilii 'assistant miller'
O5 Enziiku 'designated successor'
O6 Shugilii 'master miller'

So, the coats each wears would be

Mediinag
Sekiinag (O2 and O3)
Khuniinag
Eniinag
Shuniinag

(and if someone were talking politely about them, he would add -sin to the ends of each).

Generally, these words could well have abstracted from their original sense, to represent the Vilani names for officer ranks from any service. Thus to attain "Khuniinag" in the Navy means reaching the rank of O4, literally "the Khugilii's jacket".

 

[parmasson]

Khuiinagmuu is a mistake reading the lexicon . . . oops.

I like the ranks idea.

In the more advanced stages of a pre-industrial Vilani culture I can see the master sending his apprentice to the Khugilii’s shop to procure the necessary yeasts, chemicals and specialized widgets, like renaissance painters needing the raw pigments and linseed oils to mix their own paints.

We define cooks based on the fact they finalize the food making process.
Butchers and bakers and the rest just prepare the naturally non-toxic ingredients.

On Vland the process would have to be different.
Foods would need to be processed according to their chemical impediment

A food preparer might specialize in the production of one kind of food problem. From its raw/poisonous “bagga ushar” form to its final “muggan ushar” eatable form.

/Ligduges/ inedible (incompatible proteins)
/Ukhergam/ inedible (metabolic poison)
/Unakbes/ inedible (emetic)
/Iigiinaadukiluun/ inedible (hyperallergenic)

A Ukhergam Shugilii might be a specialsit in the production of one type incompatablity.

Complex dishes would only be prepared by the grand masters.

Imagine if everything was like fugu blowfish!

In short they would need to be processed by specialists which is why Vilani kitchens need so many people to staff them. It is a safety issue.


As one rises through the ranks they could be given greater and greater responsibilities and work with more and more dangerous stuff. So the first level is not just an apprentice but has some specific duty. So each Shugilii would have at least 5 helpers. A large kitchen might have 20 or 30 people each specializing in one issue.
Or that may be too much. If you only have X number of spaces a generalist and his assistants may just have to do.
[edited and re edited]

 

[robject]

If the organization fell out like the military, then you have two "fire teams" of Medinere, each run by a Sekilure (~squad leader). Two squads would have a Sekimnede and a Khugilii each, and the combined "section" would be run by the Shugilii and his chosen Enziiku. 22 people.

Your suggestion of food preparation specialties is excellent. It could represent masteries on the way to Shugiliidom, or simply bonus specializations.

 

[parmasson]

The Shugilii should carry a “ceremonial” knife or other symbol of authority and be paid handsomely. Hell Soc 8 Int 8 and Edu 9 should be the minimums for making it to the top three ranks. I think we need table to roll on.

The survival roll could be for your customers! HA!
Kill a customer and be expelled from the Guild. No muster benefits.

 

[robject]

Heh heh... actually I like that. There's also the possibility of offending a nobleman and getting blackballed... surely a plot hook if I ever seen one.

Let's see, what might a Shugilii (generic term, not the rank) have available as term skills? I imagine they end up similar to hunters, except with some diplomatic add-ons.

1. PHYSICAL
1 +1 STR
2 +1 DEX
3 +1 END
4 Melee
5 Throwing
6 Weapons - Blade

2. MENTAL
1 +1 INT
2 Computer
3 Forensics
4 Language
5 Perception
6 Social Science (cluster)

3. EDUCATION
1 Admin
2 Broker
3 Law
4 Writing
5 Electronics
6 Geology (minerology)

SOCIAL
1 Performance (cluster)
2 Carousing
3 Diplomacy
4 Liaison
5 Persuade
6 Psychology

CAREER
1 Art
2 Biology
3 Chemistry
4 Medic
5 Steward
6 Trader

BACKGROUND
1 Sensors
2 Spacecraft
3 Streetwise
4 Survival
5 Vac Suit
6 Watercraft


Hey, these guys are more generally useful than one might initially think...

 

[Maladominus]

I've long added the 'Culinary' skill IMTU.

Surely a Shugilii would find better use of Culinary (i.e kitchen skills) than uhhh Vacc Suit skill? Then again, maybe you might just lump the Culinary skill as a cascade under Steward. Other campaigns do that.

Oh and one thing I remember from DGP's Vilani and Vargr sourcebook.... the career of "Doctor" (and thus Medicine) is looked on as a dirty job among the Vilani. I'm not sure why... I'll have to read my Vilani & Vargr book again.

 

[Maladominus]

Originally posted by Kurega Gikur:
The Shugilii should carry a “ceremonial” knife or other symbol of authority and be paid handsomely. Hell Soc 8 Int 8 and Edu 9 should be the minimums for making it to the top three ranks.

the career of Shugilii eventually came to be considered one of the THREE highest castes in the Grand Empire of Stars, yes? So yes... the shugilii is not only an esteemed career.... it's one of the THREE MOST ESTEEMED caste-professions in Old Vilani Society.

Here is an excerpt...


One of the oldest occupations in Vilani society is that of shugilii (which translates roughly as miller). The shugilii was a person who could transform raw food into edible food through special aging and chemical treatments. The shugilii position was more akin to that of shaman or witch doctor than that of cook. Since virtually no food on Vland was edible without some treatment, shugilii were powerful members of society.......................

Three bureaus were established, each independent of the other two, and each assigned a territory among the stars for which it was responsible. Each of the three bureaus was effectively identical, but they initially espoused different philosophies, which were based on their origins. The bureaus maintained their own governments within their territories.

Sharurshid, originating with the merchant class, emphasized interstellar trade. Makhidkarun, originating with the aristocracy, emphasized interstellar government. Naasirka, originating with the shugilii, floundered after it found that it could not control food supplies on most worlds it dealt with, but it ultimately became a broad based organization, emphasizing energy, transport, and luxury goods.

http://www.jtas.net/librarydata/LibraryData/V/Vilani.htm


So there you go! From miller (shugilii) to Bureaux-Naasirka-Megacorporation!! Neat bit of history, huh? LOL

 

[parmasson]

Hmmm so a character who is a master O6 should be at least Soc:A and travel with no less than two assistants or valets.

In addition nobody can reach O6 without having a Vilani Cooking -3 or better.

Vilani Cooking -1 is granted upon admission to the Academy of Culinary Arts.

This qualifies the character to serve and prepare basic meals. O1 Medinere 'student'

Vilani Cooking-2 opens up access to the following ranks
O2 Sekilure 'proven one'
O3 Sekimnede 'reliable one'
A rank of O3 the qualifies the character to operate a kitchen in a Lesser House (restaurant)

Vilani cooking-3 is the minimum to obtain the following ranks
O5 Enziiku 'designated successor'
O6 Shugilii 'master miller'

O5 allows the character to operate a kitchen in a Honorable House
O6 allows the operation of a Greater House and become an instructor if he has instruction-1 and Admin-1 or greater.

I offer the following revision
2. MENTAL
1 +1 INT
2 Computer
3 *Instruction*
4 Language
5 Perception
6 Social Science (cluster)

3. EDUCATION
1 Admin
2 Broker
3 Law
4 Writing
5 *Instruction*
6 Geology (minerology)


The Medake is a role fulfilled by characters who enroll in the Shugilii Career but do not make commission. There are only two ranks.
Junior Medake E1
Senior Medake E2

The character receives Steward-1 automatically after failing the commission roll the first time and becomes E1. On the next term they can try for both advancement and commission.

 

[robject]

Good call - many Shugilii ought to be able to teach their understudies.

 

[robject]

Khal

Also called Karak Bilanidin ('Trade Vilani'), Gurek, Segureke, and even the Old High Vilani word Gurib, this is a broken form of Vilani used on the "frontier" (i.e. any town which doesn't have an indigenous Vilani population).

Khal isn't any one particular entity; it describes a number of pidgins and simplifications of Vilani which are found scattered across the Imperium. Therefore, it's more of a descriptive term than a language name.

In its purest form, Khal uses actual Vilani words, in very simple sentences, with an Anglic grammar. In its basest form, Khal uses Vilanicized Anglic-derived words.

Khal is by its very nature primitive and functional. Here's an example of Khal.

Menerii karak shalap.
"We trade shalaps." or "Let's trade shalaps."

Menerii: we (you and me)
karak: to trade
shalap: a shalap (a pig-like animal)

Vilani words, but Anglic grammar (of a sort).

 

[parmasson]

So does this mean that the khal dialect is a word order or inflected system?

If so what form of the nouns and such do you use?

 

[robject]

It means Khal is probably never inflected, or else its managed with auxiliary words (if at all). The root words are used in all cases.

So, for example, by saying "I run to the store", there is no way of knowing if you mean "I will run" or "I did run" or "I was running" or "I am running", or "I regularly run there", etc.

Disambiguate the sentence with helpers. It's not even grammatical Anglic, but it gets the point across -- which is the point of Khal.

"Tomorrow I run to the store."